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  1. #101  
    You can get a job for a dollar an hour and people won't care as long as you do the work. Of course you can't sustain that income and live. The same thing with HP losing money on the Touchpad on an ongoing basis.

    When HP dropped the price $100, they were still accepting the $50 coupons that preceded the price drop and a couple places like woot were selling it for below the discount.
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by daexpression View Post

    ... They should have sold it at break even or just like 299 etc compared to the Ipad of 600 and they'd see what can happen....
    Marketing 102 - IF you're a new player in the market and your product is not superior to another competing product, then your differentiation factor is pricing and you use it to create a demand /ecosystem that would self feed to increase marketshare.

    ...
    Exactly. ^^This. What he said. QFT ... I can't say it often enough.

    When you try to break into a market that is as dense as the smartphone/tablet market, you have to make your own selling proposition and invest some cash in that.
    So the Touchpad costs 300$ to produce? (or did in those days).
    Fine. Sell it for break even.

    If you compare the TP to an iPad then, you find it's performing good and costs half price. Deal.
    If you compare the TP to other 300$-tablets you will find, that it's way better than the rest. Deal.

    THEN you gain marketshare and with that you have the foot jammed into the door and can pry it open with "better" versions of your product that you sell to the meanwhile interested market for whatever seems approriate. THEN you can start earning money.

    Greed and stupidity killed that cat...
    War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy1969 View Post
    Exactly. ^^This. What he said. QFT ... I can't say it often enough.

    When you try to break into a market that is as dense as the smartphone/tablet market, you have to make your own selling proposition and invest some cash in that.
    So the Touchpad costs 300$ to produce? (or did in those days).
    Fine. Sell it for break even.

    If you compare the TP to an iPad then, you find it's performing good and costs half price. Deal.
    If you compare the TP to other 300$-tablets you will find, that it's way better than the rest. Deal.

    THEN you gain marketshare and with that you have the foot jammed into the door and can pry it open with "better" versions of your product that you sell to the meanwhile interested market for whatever seems approriate. THEN you can start earning money.

    Greed and stupidity killed that cat...
    Yup....actually it was even worst then that.....

    They sold the TPs at firesale prices...and realised Crap even at 199, people are buying it like hot cakes...At that point, after 1 million units have gone out, someone could have done a U-Turn internally and said maybe the WEbos has a market, we just didn't price it right...and told the market that they have decided not to CAN the webos...and could have released newer, better products later. ...but not ...pride, ego or plain stupidity won the show...- a very sad day for HP which used to be an organization that prides itself with innovative ideas / solutions and products.
  4. #104  
    You can't raise the price after it's sold at a cheaper price. Who has ever done that?

    If you have ever owned a business, you will know that the cost of building something is just one factor.

    What is the wholesale price? How much does it cost to ship from china to warehouses? What's the costs involved in the support staff? How to you amortize the debt of buying Palm? How do you amortize advertising?

    It's MUCH more than just the cost of parts and building it.

    If they would have designed and built a $400 tablet that's another story, but they didn't.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    You can't raise the price after it's sold at a cheaper price. Who has ever done that?

    If you have ever owned a business, you will know that the cost of building something is just one factor.

    What is the wholesale price? How much does it cost to ship from china to warehouses? What's the costs involved in the support staff? How to you amortize the debt of buying Palm? How do you amortize advertising?

    It's MUCH more than just the cost of parts and building it.

    If they would have designed and built a $400 tablet that's another story, but they didn't.
    and why can't you raise the price?..
    -new model? they already had it in the pipeline 3G model. Even just changing the bezel to something thinner..and more sexy could have jacked up the price..
    From a Touchpad to a Touchpad 3G then to a TP 4G...--this is marketing 101 again...every industry does it..
    and remember a Firesale is not the retail price. And price is really up to HP to decide and up to the consumer to decide. For example now HP says they release an Android Slate at 199USD. Is that their true cost? lol...I bet you excluding support incorporated, distribution /logistics costs, reseller price, HP still makes probably 10-20 % margin. So what is their actual cost? No one knows because of the various itemized prices of components and services required to build one.
    So if we hypothetically say that HP decided to keep WebOS and announce that the Slate will also run Webos 3.1.0 (new version - including the improved workgroup edition etc etc). Will people buy?...
    Of course they'd buy it. First adopters will be existing webos users. Then there will be existing HP users. Then they'd be those who think 199 is a good deal (and it is a good price - given the brand)...They could have , might have but didn't.....
    So now Webos is with LG....and we wait and see...and wait and see..and wait and see lol...
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    You can't raise the price after it's sold at a cheaper price. Who has ever done that?

    If you have ever owned a business,.....
    It's done all the time.
    I sale my overstock of widgets at a ridiculously low 'firesale' price.
    People scoop them up like hotcakes.
    Now their friends and family say 'That thing is cool, I want one.'
    I come out with a slightly improved widget and sell it at a more reasonable price.
    .
    I own a business.
    Just call me Berd.
  7. #107  
    Exactly.

    Or you can have a "special shorttime offer" for introducing a new product to the market and wetting the appetite. That offer is limited to a certain time or maybe to a certain amount of produce.
    Then you return to normal pricing.

    This has all been done and shouldn't put a big, rich company (as HP was in those days) in too much of a hard place.

    What HP did was:
    "Hey folks, we have a new tabletcomputer for the price of an iPad! GPS? No don't have it. Hardware? Well it's ok, but not top of the line. Apps? Well, apps ... hmmm ... Why are you asking so many stupid questions? Buy the da**ed thing!"

    LOL
    War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    You can't raise the price after it's sold at a cheaper price. Who has ever done that?
    Try to say this to Asus EeePC 7, that never came to $200.00 as final value, but sold horrors...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    You can't raise the price after it's sold at a cheaper price. Who has ever done that?
    Dude! Seriously?

    This statement is so indefensible I won't even give an example...
    Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

    Windows Central Senior Ambassador

    Mobile Nations Devotee
    sledge007 likes this.
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by RumoredNow View Post
    Dude! Seriously?

    This statement is so indefensible I won't even give an example...
    Please name a successful tablet that has raised after release? Kindle has been reduced. iPad has been reduced. The non successful Playbook was reduced. The Touchpad was reduced.

    What exactly has started artificially low and gone up in price?
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    Please name a successful tablet that has raised after release? Kindle has been reduced. iPad has been reduced. The non successful Playbook was reduced. The Touchpad was reduced.

    What exactly has started artificially low and gone up in price?
    That's not exactly what you said... You didn't mention tablets. You mention a specific marketing tactic, reduced price...

    But to address your question directly: The reduced (fire sale) price was never the introductory one. Since the introductory price was a barrier to market entry, HP could have severely reduced the price to generate consumer buzz and then either inched back up to break-even or make a small profit on each unit.

    Plenty of electronics go on sale all the time. Some of the discounts are deeper than others.

    I'll repeat that: The reduced (fire sale) price was never the introductory one. You've made your own question moot by inserting a fallacy.
    Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

    Windows Central Senior Ambassador

    Mobile Nations Devotee
  12. #112  
    All tablets has been reduced because there is a economic crisis in world.


    Best Regards....
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  13. #113  
    Isn't his exchange about marketing/pricing the Touchpad?

    Someone said they never would have paid $600 for it, but were willing to buy it for the fire sale price and that it should have been cheaper on launch.

    I pointed about the the Touchpad was lowered into the $300's but that was a money loser.

    HP now is making a cheap $179 tablet but it will be nothing like the Touchpad and will not get the marketing spend.

    Maybe this is how they should have started.
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
    All tablets has been reduced because there is a economic crisis in world.


    Best Regards....
    The crisis has been here since before the Pre was released.

    The original iPad was released during the crisis.
  15. #115  
    rnld,
    if we're to currently compare the specifications between the Slate 7 and the Touchpad 32GB.
    HP Slate 7 - Full phone specifications
    HP TouchPad - Full phone specifications

    at 179USD for the Slate, given the components - I believe their cost of this product is sub70-80USD, excluding cost of logistics, advertising, R&D, OS, distribution pricing etc. I would not be surprise my numbers here are a huge divergence from the estimated cost tear down that we publicly see from ifixit or other teardown sites.

    Do you think for HP Touchpad when they were selling at 300 (a markdown from the list price), would tell anyone that they're still making money?..Any marketing speaker from HP would tell the public that they were making a loss from it - you get goodwill from consumers (and lower their expectations), and you also do not reveal much about how the TP was costed in the beginning. I will not be surprised that their cost for the TP was substantially lower than 300..giving them a decent profit...ad 99USD it was a steal for the size/model in 2011.
    Anyway we digress.. HP is not known for sleek marketing, R&D whatsoever...and it shows from how they go about releasing or advertising products - just plain sterile.
  16. #116  
    Rationalize all you want.

    The idea of "Come buy our inferior product for less than an iPad2 " is not marketing.

    It's understandable that you are emotional about the Touchpad being discontinued, even though you bought it at the fire sale price.

    The bottom line is that it wasn't HP's intention to build a cheap tablet. They rushed it out to capitalize on the success of the iPad. In general it was a lot of bad choices but it wasn't marketing or lack thereof that doomed the touchpad.

    Google Touchpad TV spots and you will see how extensive and out front the marketing was.

    It's not difficult to look and see where tablets were priced in July 2011 and the Touchpad was not the most expensive.
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by daexpression View Post
    rnld,
    if we're to currently compare the specifications between the Slate 7 and the Touchpad 32GB.
    HP Slate 7 - Full phone specifications
    HP TouchPad - Full phone specifications

    at 179USD for the Slate, given the components - I believe their cost of this product is sub70-80USD, excluding cost of logistics, advertising, R&D, OS, distribution pricing etc. I would not be surprise my numbers here are a huge divergence from the estimated cost tear down that we publicly see from ifixit or other teardown sites.

    Do you think for HP Touchpad when they were selling at 300 (a markdown from the list price), would tell anyone that they're still making money?..Any marketing speaker from HP would tell the public that they were making a loss from it - you get goodwill from consumers (and lower their expectations), and you also do not reveal much about how the TP was costed in the beginning. I will not be surprised that their cost for the TP was substantially lower than 300..giving them a decent profit...ad 99USD it was a steal for the size/model in 2011.
    Anyway we digress.. HP is not known for sleek marketing, R&D whatsoever...and it shows from how they go about releasing or advertising products - just plain sterile.
    http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/HP-TouchPad-Carries-$318-Bill-of-Materials.aspx
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    The idea of "Come buy our inferior product for less than an iPad2 " is not marketing.
    Not completely relevant, but what is your opinion on the mishmash of Android tablets?
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMMan View Post
    Not completely relevant, but what is your opinion on the mishmash of Android tablets?
    Are you referring to the cheap Chinese tablets?
  20. #120  
    No, Android tablets in general. All the big news I've heard about is the Nexus 7 and maybe some Samsung tablet.

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