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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    Don't forget that HP hurt the brand in that they announced theOS 2 update wasn't going to be for the Pre, Pixi and the + versions. This is when people were less than 2 years into their phones. This was before the Touchpad and Palm had said the update was coming to these phones before the sale.

    That made a lot of owners unhappy and non trusting.
    I agree.
    Another let down for the hopefuls.
    Just call me Berd.
  2. #82  
    Let's not forget the promised 2.2.4 Veer update that never officially was either!

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
    HP Veer (daily driver), HP Pre 3, HP Touchpad Proper 4G/LTE (Sierra MC7710), HP Touchpad 32GB WiFi, Palm Pre 2
  3. #83  
    Wasn't there also something that Hp changed in the OS that caused many apps to need to be reworked, resulting in developers saying they weren't going to bother to try and get their apps to work again with this OS update?
    Just call me Berd.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    Don't forget that HP hurt the brand in that they announced theOS 2 update wasn't going to be for the Pre, Pixi and the + versions. This is when people were less than 2 years into their phones. This was before the Touchpad and Palm had said the update was coming to these phones before the sale.

    That made a lot of owners unhappy and non trusting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Herrie View Post
    Let's not forget the promised 2.2.4 Veer update that never officially was either!

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
    Carrier issues, SFR/O2 did release webOS 2.1.0 for PrePlus, but there was no OTA update, this was not a good option for users, most users I have met were still on webOS 1.4.5.x because they did not know about pre central or webOSInternals...

    It could have been released via OTA, would have been a great script, modify the partitions, convert databases, etc... But with the release versions of webOS 2.1.0 for PrePlus, even with fresh doctor, mighty slow... Compared to webOS 1.4.5.x.

    The biggest stall dealing with carriers, Apple did one thing right, they produced a single device, swap comm boards (GSM/CDMA), one device with full control to software core...

    If palm would have produced one doctor for each device, they would have solved many issues, many Verizon Pre2 users are still on webOS 2.1.0, because Verizon will not even look at the webOS 2.2.4 update...

    Big mistake when you promise things, then fail to follow thru... Even Veer (think beyond event) they show tap to share during event with DreamWorks segment... Promise, then they could not get AT&T or O2 to even look at webOS 2.2.x....

    Pixie is slow with 2.1.0, but polished it could have been better....

    Even Pre3 with webOS 2.2.4 has issues...

    Now they tweet they are going to fix the certificate issues.... More empty promises from HP/Palm...

    LG smart TV's maybe, other devices they at least are not promising anything yet... I have hopes...
    Last edited by John Steffes; 03/10/2013 at 08:21 PM.
    Remy X and RumoredNow like this.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Wasn't there also something that Hp changed in the OS that caused many apps to need to be reworked, resulting in developers saying they weren't going to bother to try and get their apps to work again with this OS update?
    Enyo directory path.

    Symlinking the new folder path with the old fixes the problem, but it isn't something that the average user would know to do. So yeah, a major screw-up on the part of HP

    [Edit] - Maybe you're also referring to something else, i don't know... but the Enyo issue definitely fits the bill
    berdinkerdickle likes this.
  6. #86  
    So the HP bashing continues and I would happily add my mustard to that hot dog, except that sausage has become mighty cold over the years.

    What would interest me more is, what LG can do right...

    We don't know a hell of a lot yet. So mostly, we can just assume, using common sense. Problem is, companies don't work with common sense, because the goals of the board, shareholders, workers, developers etc are anything but common.
    Even in a board of leadership of a company, there are so many divergences in the targets of the members, that mostly all you can get are foul compromizes. This seems to be more true the bigger a company and it's board gets.

    If you would be the CEO and have to converge all boardmembers to focus on a target, you would have to take the approach via the only thing, that is common to them all: financial success.
    Sadly, WebOS has not exactly the best history on gaining a company financial success. And it won't interest most boardmembers, if this was due to failure of the OS or due to failure of the marketing. People sitting in boards are mostly NOT gearheds. They see money. That's what counts.

    If I would have to bet all my money, would I bet it on a new WebOS phone or tablet from LG?
    No.
    I would bet it on LG canibalizing WebOS and putting the things they need into their SmartTV project.

    Sadly so.
    War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
    berdinkerdickle likes this.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    Enyo directory path.

    Symlinking the new folder path with the old fixes the problem, but it isn't something that the average user would know to do. So yeah, a major screw-up on the part of HP

    [Edit] - Maybe you're also referring to something else, i don't know... but the Enyo issue definitely fits the bill
    didn't they **** up some of the opengl system, I recall some apps either not working or requiring being carded/refocused to speed back up.
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
    Remy X likes this.
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy1969 View Post
    So the HP bashing continues and I would happily add my mustard to that hot dog, except that sausage has become mighty cold over the years.

    What would interest me more is, what LG can do right...

    We don't know a hell of a lot yet. So mostly, we can just assume, using common sense. Problem is, companies don't work with common sense, because the goals of the board, shareholders, workers, developers etc are anything but common.
    Even in a board of leadership of a company, there are so many divergences in the targets of the members, that mostly all you can get are foul compromizes. This seems to be more true the bigger a company and it's board gets.

    If you would be the CEO and have to converge all boardmembers to focus on a target, you would have to take the approach via the only thing, that is common to them all: financial success.
    Sadly, WebOS has not exactly the best history on gaining a company financial success. And it won't interest most boardmembers, if this was due to failure of the OS or due to failure of the marketing. People sitting in boards are mostly NOT gearheds. They see money. That's what counts.

    If I would have to bet all my money, would I bet it on a new WebOS phone or tablet from LG?
    No.
    I would bet it on LG canibalizing WebOS and putting the things they need into their SmartTV project.

    Sadly so.
    its unfortunate but your cannibalize theory is probably correct, I remember when gateway2000 and escom temp owned the original Amiga hardware, they licenced the tech to companies who made other stuff like lottery machine kiosks.

    thankfully it didn't end there for the trusty Amiga, tho I'm still a fan of classic over PPC amigas...... Well both tbh.
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    "Leo" getting fired did not change my life in the least. HP made some bad deals - Palm being one of them.

    The phones were not selling, the Touchpad was a generation behind the iPad and weekly sales dwindled after a tepid launch week. If "Leo" would have kept WebOS going or not, it was a huge money loser. In the end, maybe less so buy cutting spending on the project and making a bit back from the fire sale.

    The carriers did not want the phone line and retailers didn't want the Touchpad after it stiffed. It doesn't get more simple.
    I think that HP buying Palm is way better than getting bought by another company. LG would make TVs, Samsung would make a 6" phone with it, and all the others would make bad phones. Even if LG made it a phone it would be over 4.5" I do not see the point of the huge screen. It ruins everything. It causes apps to be messed up and might cause fracturing of apps
    HP Think Beyond event link
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnjwG...dwMIQ&index=31
    If You Have A WindsorNot Hit Me Up
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    Enyo directory path.

    Symlinking the new folder path with the old fixes the problem, but it isn't something that the average user would know to do. So yeah, a major screw-up on the part of HPl
    So...

    If you're saying the 'non-average' user could fix this, could such a user craft a patch containing the link and solve the problem for the average rest of us? Or is it an app by app thing rather than an OS patch?

    ;-)
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    The phones were not selling, the Touchpad was a generation behind the iPad and weekly sales dwindled after a tepid launch week. If "Leo" would have kept WebOS going or not, it was a huge money loser. In the end, maybe less so buy cutting spending on the project and making a bit back from the fire sale.

    The carriers did not want the phone line and retailers didn't want the Touchpad after it stiffed. It doesn't get more simple.
    I wanted the Pre3 (to replace my PrePlus on Verizon) I wanted the Touchpad... Just not at the prices they were selling... I walked into Best Buy and played with the DEMO, I walked into SAMS Club and played with their DEMO, I even saw it at COSTCO....

    The issue was that people did not want them, it was supply/demand/price curve...

    I wanted one but not at $600 a pop... When it went on firesale prices I was the first in line at Best Buy (first went to staples as they had stated online they had one) to grab my Touchpad, I went and got all the touchpad goodies, the case, the keyboard (which I rarely use), the touchstone charger, my family was not happy (we were on vacation) and I made them leave the hotel/beach we were at to hunt down the touchpad (we were leaving the city we were at anyway)... I got my touchpad for the prices it should have been $159 not $600...

    LG I feel will do the same thing they are going to produce some nice Smart TV, price it out of my league and I will sit and play with the DEMO's...

    I got my first color TV for $50, it was CRT 13 inch Goldstar (which is now LG), why oh why is a Smart TV $500 I will never know, it was $50 (yeah I know flat panel, plama, led, etc...) Come on I can buy a computer (monitor) for $25 for a 20inch... a TV should not be priced that high...

    A TV is nothing more then a fancy monitor with a few built in decoders... If I can get a laptop for $250, which has a OLED then I should be able to get a smart TV for $50...

    Price is a factor of Supply/Demand...

    I want one... Just at what Price?
    RumoredNow likes this.
  12. #92  
    The Touchpad was never a $99 tablet. It cost much more than that to build and support it.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    The Touchpad was never a $99 tablet. It cost much more than that to build and support it.
    When you go up against the big dogs... you better discount... The Touchpad is a great tablet for $99 16G/$149 32G, for $600 nobody touched it... Building costs are never known except to HP/Palm even the break down cost of $307 is not right...

    HP TouchPad costs $307 to make, shares little with iPad 2 | Electronista

    Priced at the low fire sale price, people will seeking it...

    What costs did they pay for the components, I remember a deal when it cost dial up companies nothing to distribute their floppy disks, the floppy maker made more then they could store, so they asked dial up comany to take them, get this the floppy disk maker paid the dial up company to taken them... They made like $9 for new users and got paid like $1 to distribute the software... all that they had to support was the duplication of the media...

    Same issue I have with HP making a Slate 7 that runs android, compare to china NextBook for $79, one can get ICS, for $169, I better get more... discount is the only way people can afford them, you make them love it want it need it...

    Apple is great at making you want things...

    All I am trying to say is LG is not going to discount, they are gong to charge full price for their new webOS Smart TV (expecting to get what they paid for webOS back...) Guess what sell it for a discount I buy it... Charge a Premium and it will sit...
  14. #94  
    Of course people would buy Touchpads for $99. Anything else for $99 in the tablet world is junk.

    Don't forget - $99 was the retail price. What was HP getting? 60 bucks?
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by John Steffes View Post
    When you go up against the big dogs... you better discount... The Touchpad is a great tablet for $99 16G/$149 32G, for $600 nobody touched it... Building costs are never known except to HP/Palm even the break down cost of $307 is not right...

    HP TouchPad costs $307 to make, shares little with iPad 2 | Electronista

    Priced at the low fire sale price, people will seeking it...

    What costs did they pay for the components, I remember a deal when it cost dial up companies nothing to distribute their floppy disks, the floppy maker made more then they could store, so they asked dial up comany to take them, get this the floppy disk maker paid the dial up company to taken them... They made like $9 for new users and got paid like $1 to distribute the software... all that they had to support was the duplication of the media...

    Same issue I have with HP making a Slate 7 that runs android, compare to china NextBook for $79, one can get ICS, for $169, I better get more... discount is the only way people can afford them, you make them love it want it need it...

    Apple is great at making you want things...

    All I am trying to say is LG is not going to discount, they are gong to charge full price for their new webOS Smart TV (expecting to get what they paid for webOS back...) Guess what sell it for a discount I buy it... Charge a Premium and it will sit...
    I agree...

    all the screwups from HP from the onset ..basically they failed at marketing 101....
    1. Is the Touchpad equal to the Ipad (at that point in time?) - NO.
    2. Is the product better than the Ipad (no) but this is moot. Ipad users do not really focus on hardware specs - like number of CPU, memory perse..it's all about user experience, unlike PC users.
    3. Number of applications (ecosystem) - fail.
    4. Brand - Apple beats HP handsdown.

    So with the above ..who in their right mind would match prices??? only HP..and they were stupid at it. They should have sold it at break even or just like 299 etc compared to the Ipad of 600 and they'd see what can happen....
    Marketing 102 - IF you're a new player in the market and your product is not superior to another competing product, then your differentiation factor is pricing and you use it to create a demand /ecosystem that would self feed to increase marketshare.

    Anyway I think schools doing marketing 101 should do this case study and see what students come out with.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    So...

    If you're saying the 'non-average' user could fix this, could such a user craft a patch containing the link and solve the problem for the average rest of us? Or is it an app by app thing rather than an OS patch?

    ;-)
    Should be pretty easy for someone who would know how to run a linux shell script from inside an app... i can look it up, because making the symlink off command line is like 3 lines of script if not less...
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by daexpression View Post
    I agree...

    all the screwups from HP from the onset ..basically they failed at marketing 101....
    1. Is the Touchpad equal to the Ipad (at that point in time?) - NO.
    2. Is the product better than the Ipad (no) but this is moot. Ipad users do not really focus on hardware specs - like number of CPU, memory perse..it's all about user experience, unlike PC users.
    3. Number of applications (ecosystem) - fail.
    4. Brand - Apple beats HP handsdown.

    So with the above ..who in their right mind would match prices??? only HP..and they were stupid at it. They should have sold it at break even or just like 299 etc compared to the Ipad of 600 and they'd see what can happen....
    Marketing 102 - IF you're a new player in the market and your product is not superior to another competing product, then your differentiation factor is pricing and you use it to create a demand /ecosystem that would self feed to increase marketshare.

    Anyway I think schools doing marketing 101 should do this case study and see what students come out with.
    The Touchpad was sold at the same price as all the other non junk tablets in the market.

    Even after the price drop to $399 it didn't sell.

    A month into the release you could get a 16 gig Touchpad for $300 with discounts and coupons.
  18.    #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    A month into the release you could get a 16 gig Touchpad for $300 with discounts and coupons.
    Theoretically, yes. Very few actually managed get a touchpad at anywhere close to that price. First, there were very few 16GB Touchpads available; I personally never saw one anywhere at any point of the TouchPad's short life. Second, many of the stores would not honor that deal; the $100-off coupons came out before the $100 price drop, and many of the stores insisted that both reductions could not be applied. Yes, a lucky few did get $299 16GB Touchpads, but most who tried just spent a weekend frustrated.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    Of course people would buy Touchpads for $99. Anything else for $99 in the tablet world is junk.

    Don't forget - $99 was the retail price. What was HP getting? 60 bucks?
    Nobody cares what HP/Palm gets, they only wanted a lower price point...

    Quote Originally Posted by daexpression View Post
    I agree...

    all the screwups from HP from the onset ..basically they failed at marketing 101....
    1. Is the Touchpad equal to the Ipad (at that point in time?) - NO.
    2. Is the product better than the Ipad (no) but this is moot. Ipad users do not really focus on hardware specs - like number of CPU, memory perse..it's all about user experience, unlike PC users.
    3. Number of applications (ecosystem) - fail.
    4. Brand - Apple beats HP handsdown.

    So with the above ..who in their right mind would match prices??? only HP..and they were stupid at it. They should have sold it at break even or just like 299 etc compared to the Ipad of 600 and they'd see what can happen....
    Marketing 102 - IF you're a new player in the market and your product is not superior to another competing product, then your differentiation factor is pricing and you use it to create a demand /ecosystem that would self feed to increase marketshare.

    Anyway I think schools doing marketing 101 should do this case study and see what students come out with.
    Hoping LG will do this with their Smart TV, don't sell it for what you think it is worth, but what the customer will think it is worth...

    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    The Touchpad was sold at the same price as all the other non junk tablets in the market.

    Even after the price drop to $399 it didn't sell.

    A month into the release you could get a 16 gig Touchpad for $300 with discounts and coupons.
    Never heard of such a coupon, I know as a PrePlus user, I got a $50 credit or something for them not releasing webOS 2.x (the make it right), I know they knocked a $100 off the the tablet a few months/weeks into it. But at $399 or $400 nobody wants a knock off... if they want an IPAD they would spend the full amount, as it has been said, apple makes you want their device, you want it so bad, even the connector (for the new IPHONE5)...

    I might have considered the 64G white panda for $399, but not for a 16G.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsonx42 View Post
    Theoretically, yes. Very few actually managed get a touchpad at anywhere close to that price. First, there were very few 16GB Touchpads available; I personally never saw one anywhere at any point of the TouchPad's short life. Second, many of the stores would not honor that deal; the $100-off coupons came out before the $100 price drop, and many of the stores insisted that both reductions could not be applied. Yes, a lucky few did get $299 16GB Touchpads, but most who tried just spent a weekend frustrated.
    Again, I hope LG really looks at this from a price point, do not market their new webOS Smart TV as a premium TV, market it as a lower end, once people buy it, then they can make a better product, with a premium price point...

    Just my thoughts... I am trying to keep this on point to the thread how LG can learn from HP/Palm mistakes...
  20. #100  
    Hmmm.

    I think TV's are mainly sold on hardware spec.

    Screen size, resolution, refresh rate, 3D ability.

    People still use TV's to... watch TV! This is partly why people are down about LG putting webOS on TV's - unless the OS is seriously poor, no one really cares. They just want a usable TV Guide or media selector - then they sit back and consume.

    For apps, web, or productivity, it'll be the phone, tablet or laptop. Perhaps this is because a big TV screen lets everyone in the room (e.g.) read your emails and your emails are maybe in the way of someone watching the TV. Maybe webOS will be a game changer, but I think people have different sized screens for different uses. Where webOS might score is the so-called second screen use - a show on the main screen and interaction on the laptop/tablet/phone in your home. webOS could synergise with your personal device, but what would that device be running?

    Anyhow, I think I'm still on topic, but to finish my original point, I think LG will continue to have TV's at a range of price points according to size and hardware spec & features. Pushing a 'webOS TV' will be bad marketing, but that could change if product reviews and customer word of mouth is good. Then people might start asking for TVs that "work like an LG" and even investigating webOS on other devices. It's a big IF though. I wonder what LG will do will webOS because most will just use it as a fancy channel changer...

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