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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by RumoredNow View Post
    Exactly, johnsonx42...

    [...]
    No one can deny that Apple has a tight market strategy. They own and control the Hardware and the Software. Nobody can dilute their brand (except some Chinese knock-offs that are inferior enough quality wise that they do not appear as an attractive "generic" product in the consumer's mind).

    Google and Microsoft own and control the Software, but not the hardware. OEM's are free to jump in. It leads to variation, not differentiation. Brand dilution is built into that system for Hardware manufactures by the very nature of the system.

    So now someone will point at RIM, which owns and controls the Hardware and Software, but isn't doing well. RIM lacks the advantages of LG: a highly diversified portfolio of multiple product lines that can support an R&D budget worthy of sustained effort. Furthermore, LG manufactures many of their own components for mobile devices.

    I'm not saying LG will or has to go their own way with a proprietary Hardware/Software combo. I am saying they have now secured it as a viable option to build a brand that no competitors are in a position to dilute...
    Hmmm. I'm afraid I'm not clear if LG are developing webOS or OPENwebOS. Maybe that will become significant, maybe not. If LG make a successful webOS phone, then if open, others could follow using OwOS like Android. If closed, they might license from HP.

    Open would likely favour the consumer; closed would advantage LG & HP. Whatever! We continue to discuss currently mythical future hardware!
    Last edited by Preemptive; 03/03/2013 at 07:48 PM. Reason: shortened quote
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    This is hogwash.

    The Touchpad failed because people didn't care. Sales were decreasing week by week, Best Buy was returning a ton of unsold stock and it was over. They pulled the plug.

    A recent film Beautiful Creatures, had a TON of TV advertising and awareness but after taking a beating at the box office, advertising was pulled and theaters put more successful films on the screens that opened up.

    There are some here that have no clue how business works.
    People didn't care because the TouchPad was too much of a me-too product. The idiots on the HP board just wanted something to compete with the iPad, and all they did was clone it then slap webOS and call it a day. That doesn't work especially when they priced it IDENTICAL to the iPad. Other than Touch to Share, there were practically nothing to make it stand out or show the real benefit of webOS. And let's not forget for that feature to work, you needed the phones, which with all the boardroom fighting they never made it to market for people to actually use, which also brings back your point about "the phones didn't sell", that's because they didn't have any to other than the Veer. Should the TouchPad Go was in place of what we know as the TouchPad, things would be a bit different.

    So I say rather than webOS being the culprit, poor marketing and execution missteps takes the bigger blame here.

    Mark Hurd wasn't stupid buying Palm, it was part of a larger consumer product plan execution, except the HP board scrapped him midway for everything to work. He knew what he was doing, even Larry Ellison agrees.

    Read this:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/10/te...lett.html?_r=0
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
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  3. #23  
    I thought I remember reading in The Verge that Ruby begged Leo not to release webOS before it was ready but Leo was gung ho on the 1 year release. All the issues with code and web apps being too slow meant webOS was not ready yet and ahead of the technology. And additionally apple had the hardware supply chain locked up and Palm got the inferior parts.

    Tech products take a long incubation time. Wasnt the initial apple product the ipad and yet it wasnt ready and the iphone was incidental on the way towards the ipad? The apple tv has been rumored for years and still isnt out , they are still incubating and they released 3 or so gen of a small apple tv box which has only sold a paltry amoutn compared to the iPhone.
  4. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    [...] it doesnt matter how bad they run as long as they run, speed issues etc can be fleshed out later.[...]
    Ah, we all heard that one before, too. That didn't work out too well for webOS as an OS, either, despite their too-late attempt at turning that issue around since 3.x.

    Pre to postmortem: the inside story of the death of Palm and webOS | The Verge

    Straight from the horse's damned mouth, folks.

    So, tell me how your rationale works, because I'd fire a developer on my team in a heartbeat if they told me that giving the end user a slow, ****ty experience was in any way an acceptable answer. Especially if the platform was already bleeding users and we were fighting to bring them back and attract more.
    Last edited by dignitary; 03/04/2013 at 12:37 AM.
  5. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    [...] it doesnt matter how bad they run as long as they run, speed issues etc can be fleshed out later.[...]
    Ah, we all heard that one before, too. That didn't work out too well for webOS as an OS, either, despite their too-late attempt at turning that issue around since 3.x.

    Pre to postmortem: the inside story of the death of Palm and webOS | The Verge

    Straight from the horse's (i.e., Palm's) damned mouth, folks. Or have people forgotten this really, really, really important lesson already? In case I need to spell it out: Performance. is. really. really. important.

    So, assuming that article didn't make the point abundantly clear, do tell us how your rationale works, because I'd fire a developer on my team in a heartbeat if they told me that giving the end user a slow, sh**ty experience was in any way an acceptable answer. Especially if the platform was already bleeding users and we were fighting to bring them back and attract more.

    Half the business "sense" here appears supportive of the idea of putting webOS out there just to put it out there despite the fact that it's exactly the same failure pattern that led to this mess in the first place... But as long as I get a shiny new webOS mobile device that gets its own 60-page long defect/issue thread here on webOS Nation, who cares, right?
    Last edited by dignitary; 03/04/2013 at 12:43 AM.
  6. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by dignitary View Post
    Love the OS for what it is now, not some distant, nigh impossible hope hinging on yet more impossible chances and frankly delusional rationale.
    Seriously dude... Just let people dream and vocalize on the site without feeling the need debate or trash their hopes. Enough is enough.
    berdinkerdickle, Rnp and johncc like this.
  7. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    What about the Pre 3?

    HP is in the PC business - They sold 15 million PCs in the 4th quarter.
    and yet leo decided to scrap their pc business along with webos. this seems to be the polar opposite of what you said about the touchpad not selling well being the cause for its dismissal, then why was the pc line also up for a chopping.

    also if i read correctly, HP is mostly in the printer business, not PC, the printer side being more profitable than their PC side which was last reported as being a minor/marginal profit.
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  8. #29  
    Well... the people can attack webOS. Ok, we can survive this...

    ... but... can use different arguments?? Two years has passed, and the same words continue?

    Well... back to the thread...

    The LG can sell Androphones. The problem is grow the marketshare against the other corean brand using the same SO.

    I don't remember who told (Einstein? Lincoln? Jerry Lewis? Homer Simpson?), but is insane do the same things and wait for different results (or something like this. )

    In the end, the webOS can be the difference to give the arm to gain more space...


    Best Regards...
    Last edited by Rnp; 03/05/2013 at 06:09 AM.
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
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  9. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/technology/hewlett-packards-touchpad-was-built-on-flawed-software-some-say.html?pagewanted=all
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    HP and the Touchpad and phones can't be viewed in a bubble. It has to be looked at with the perspective of the marketplace at the time.
    I remember that article, so let's put it in perspective

    First we'll look at the reaction from Dio Almaer: The rise and fall of webOS is an epic tale; webOS != Web OS on Dion Almaer's Blog

    "The New York Times article quotes Paul Mercer heavily. It is important to know where those quotes are coming from. Paul is a technologist who left Apple to create the Pixo OS (which sold to Sun) and later created technology that Palm acquired. This was not webOS as you know it. It was a Java based operating system (hand written JVM!) with a proprietary XML dialect for layout. Does that sound familiar? (I have seen Paul and Andy Rubin together in Los Altos many a time "

    So you're quoting an article that relies (mostly) on the option of a man who is presented as 'the senior director of software at Palm, who oversaw the interface design of WebOS' but in reality found his vision (a JAVA-dialect) being thrown in the garbage bin (because it didn't work) and was disgruntled about that.

    Or to use the words from insiders (Pre to postmortem: the inside story of the death of Palm and webOS | The Verge):
    "Mercer's stuff was garbage," one source bluntly told us. "All he had was a nice demo, but nothing really worked," said another. "The software team was getting close to mutiny. It was untenable to build what we wanted to build." Simple tasks like centering text on the screen required five lines of code. If a single app crashed, it would often take every running app down with it. Palm engineers trying to write apps and services for Prima were stymied by an archaic debugging scheme that required the entire UI layer to be stopped and restarted each time, a process which took about a minute and a half. Though it was Java-based, writing Prima code required the use of "custom keywords that no one could understand."

    So yeah...quoting that article to make your point is a bit - how shall i call it - ignorant.

    All that being said, let's look at the matter with a bit of perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    HP and the Touchpad and phones can't be viewed in a bubble. It has to be looked at with the perspective of the marketplace at the time.
    from Josh Marinacci's blog: webOS on The Verge
    So why did it fail in the market place? Actually, I question that assertion. Clearly we weren't selling as well as the iPad but based on anecdotal evidence we were selling more than any Android tablet. One Best Buy employee told me the iPad sold about 10 units a day a his store while the TouchPad sold two a day. The other tablets (Android and BlackBerry) were lucky to sell one a week each. While Samsung may have shipped millions of tablets they later admitted that most of them were never actually sold to end customers. We were the #2 tablet even before the fire sale. A weak #2, but still #2. Not bad for a 1.0 product. If we continued working on the software, pushing out consistent updates, and shipped the Opal then we would have gone into the Christmas season with a strong momentum.

    From the same article:
    So then why was the TouchPad canceled? As I said, we will never know. Perhaps the sales projections weren't realistic. But we do know that the *way* it was killed was designed to be irreversible. The press release announcing cancelation took everyone by surprise, including our partners. AT&T refused to carry the Pre 3 just before it was scheduled to go on sale. The Opal was canceled just days before it would have gone into production for a release in late September. Once you scupper a supply chain that way it takes at least a year to rebuild. The damage was irreversible. Even if Leo had been fired a week later and Meg reversed the decision, it still was too late. And it was that supply chain which cost most of the two billion dollar write down HP had to take later. I sometimes wonder if it would have been cheaper to build the TouchPad Go anyway and still sell it for 99$ like the TouchPad. In any case, the decision was made and it was immediately final.

    Of note: when Meg Whitman was asked in an all-hands meeting how the board could have voted for such a decision, she said the board was "informed" of the plan, not consulted. No vote was required or taken.


    So in perspective of the marketplace at the time - before the fire sale! - the Touchpad was doing as well as that could be expected: Not as good as the iPad...better than anything else in the marketplace. Those were the (objective) facts at the time.

    But numbers are only numbers, and facts are merely facts. There's also something called user-satifaction. So to look at it more subjectively, the touchpad satisfied it's users more that the iPad even almost a year after it was cancelled (Cheap HP TouchPad Bests iPad). So when all facts are said and done, that does count for something.

    hope this was a bit informative (because from your posts it was obvious that you were oblivious about several of these facts; or else you would have written some of the arguments differently)...the overall tone of the quoted articles/posts wasn't always that positive (but still a good read), and there were a lot of things that went wrong, and that needed further development. But alas, that didn't happen.
    Last edited by Misj'; 03/04/2013 at 08:40 AM.
  10. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Misj' View Post
    I remember that article, so let's put it in perspective

    First we'll look at the reaction from Dio Almaer: The rise and fall of webOS is an epic tale; webOS != Web OS on Dion Almaer's Blog

    "The New York Times article quotes Paul Mercer heavily. It is important to know where those quotes are coming from. Paul is a technologist who left Apple to create the Pixo OS (which sold to Sun) and later created technology that Palm acquired. This was not webOS as you know it. It was a Java based operating system (hand written JVM!) with a proprietary XML dialect for layout. Does that sound familiar? (I have seen Paul and Andy Rubin together in Los Altos many a time "

    So you're quoting an article that relies (mostly) on the option of a man who is presented as 'the senior director of software at Palm, who oversaw the interface design of WebOS' but in reality found his vision (a JAVA-dialect) being thrown in the garbage bin (because it didn't work) and was disgruntled about that.

    Or to use the words from insiders (Pre to postmortem: the inside story of the death of Palm and webOS | The Verge):
    "Mercer's stuff was garbage," one source bluntly told us. "All he had was a nice demo, but nothing really worked," said another. "The software team was getting close to mutiny. It was untenable to build what we wanted to build." Simple tasks like centering text on the screen required five lines of code. If a single app crashed, it would often take every running app down with it. Palm engineers trying to write apps and services for Prima were stymied by an archaic debugging scheme that required the entire UI layer to be stopped and restarted each time, a process which took about a minute and a half. Though it was Java-based, writing Prima code required the use of "custom keywords that no one could understand."

    So yeah...quoting that article to make your point is a bit - how shall i call it - ignorant.

    All that being said, let's look at the matter with a bit of perspective



    from Josh Marinacci's blog: webOS on The Verge
    So why did it fail in the market place? Actually, I question that assertion. Clearly we weren't selling as well as the iPad but based on anecdotal evidence we were selling more than any Android tablet. One Best Buy employee told me the iPad sold about 10 units a day a his store while the TouchPad sold two a day. The other tablets (Android and BlackBerry) were lucky to sell one a week each. While Samsung may have shipped millions of tablets they later admitted that most of them were never actually sold to end customers. We were the #2 tablet even before the fire sale. A weak #2, but still #2. Not bad for a 1.0 product. If we continued working on the software, pushing out consistent updates, and shipped the Opal then we would have gone into the Christmas season with a strong momentum.

    From the same article:
    So then why was the TouchPad canceled? As I said, we will never know. Perhaps the sales projections weren't realistic. But we do know that the *way* it was killed was designed to be irreversible. The press release announcing cancelation took everyone by surprise, including our partners. AT&T refused to carry the Pre 3 just before it was scheduled to go on sale. The Opal was canceled just days before it would have gone into production for a release in late September. Once you scupper a supply chain that way it takes at least a year to rebuild. The damage was irreversible. Even if Leo had been fired a week later and Meg reversed the decision, it still was too late. And it was that supply chain which cost most of the two billion dollar write down HP had to take later. I sometimes wonder if it would have been cheaper to build the TouchPad Go anyway and still sell it for 99$ like the TouchPad. In any case, the decision was made and it was immediately final.

    Of note: when Meg Whitman was asked in an all-hands meeting how the board could have voted for such a decision, she said the board was "informed" of the plan, not consulted. No vote was required or taken.


    So in perspective of the marketplace at the time - before the fire sale! - the Touchpad was doing as well as that could be expected: Not as good as the iPad...better than anything else in the marketplace. Those were the (objective) facts at the time.

    But numbers are only numbers, and facts are merely facts. There's also something called user-satifaction. So to look at it more subjectively, the touchpad satisfied it's users more that the iPad even almost a year after it was cancelled (Cheap HP TouchPad Bests iPad). So when all facts are said and done, that does count for something.

    hope this was a bit informative (because from your posts it was obvious that you were oblivious about several of these facts; or else you would have written some of the arguments differently)...the overall tone of the quoted articles/posts wasn't always that positive (but still a good read), and there were a lot of things that went wrong, and that needed further development. But alas, that didn't happen.
    couldnt agree more, glad to see someone more wordwise than myself put things in a better light.
    +1
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  11. #32  
    We have no idea how the Pre3 would have faired in the market place.
    In most markets it was never actually released and where it was released it was killed right after.

    The TouchPad is a slightly different case. It's hardware was ok-ish - but far from amazing. The base OS was much better than IOS, but the app selection was not great.
    The list price might have been OK (mesage: we are better/at least as good as the IPad) - but it would have needed bundles, promotions, etc... to reduce the actual price people pay to move it vs IPad.
    All of which is irrelevant as all supporting marketing and sales efforts where already hampered by the decision (months before TP launched) to get rid of the whole consumer oriented part of the business.

    We don't know

    We also don't know the exact reasons Best Buy was upset and wanted to return the hardware. Even if sales where disappointing it would be unusual for it's CEO to throw a tantrum and send everything back. Before that there would have been usually negotiations about rebates and/or guarantees etc... After all HP is a big business partner. A single underselling product is no reason to sour the relations like this.
    And considering what followed shortly after I think it's much more plausible that the BB CEO got wind of HPs shiny new "Strategy" and got angry about that. Exactly because that affects a lot more products than just this 1 tablet.

    Fact: HP was in trouble long before they even aquired Palm. As we learned from later interviews there where internal turf wars about how to improve margins and which direction to move forward.
    It's why they kicked Hurd (the reason given is not usually enough to fire a CEO).
    Fact: HP was on it's way to restructure when they hired Leo A. He was probably hired with that vision already in mind of at least some of the board members.
    According to later news the board never even met Leo before he started – because the board was so exhausted from internal negotiations.

    When Palm and webos where bought there was much sensible talk about this being a multi-year strategy. Even Leo repeated that. But that plan was obviously dropped after Hurd left. His Be-Like-Apple-Strategy was replaced by the B-Like-IBM-Strategy. That changed webos from a valuable asset to a costly liability.

    You cannot beat Apple at their game if your own board can't even agree to that strategy and doesn't follow up with the required commitment.

    We can only speculate how webos would have fared if HP had followed through with the original strategy.
    Bundling TP in good deals, giving away app vouchers, a lot more marketing, outright paying (or self-developing) for some core apps, introducing an improved TP2 for xmas sale.

    Anybody who says they "know" either way is making stuff up.

    All of which is also pretty irrelevant for LG.
    The HP launch of webos products was always doomed if HP anyway planned to get out of the business.

    The case for LG launching webos based products is: What's the alternative?
    They can produce W8 gadgets. Metro is not too popular and Nokia is already in bed with MS (and MS is moving into hardware - making an outright merger with Nokia not unlikely). It would suck tpo depend on W8 at that point.
    Produce more Android gadgets. But how to differentiate when you are just one of many such manufacturers and not the most successful so far. Being cheaper - OK -might work - but by definition the margins go down. Not great. Would need total market dominance to make a nice pile of cash from that.
    Adding own stuff? Difficult, adds development costs and this is also often unpopular. Nexus stuff sells well exactly because it is straight Android.
    IOS is not an option.

    At some point they have to decide to either:
    * Get out of the mobile market
    * Suddenly have a bright idea to be more successful with Android
    * Or come with an alternative which they can control better and differentiate from the competition.

    The worth of webos to HP and others was always the latter - Be-Like-Apple option. It's very tempting - if it can be made to work.
    Palm didn't have the resources.
    HP didn't have the will.

    A company with the will and resources *could* make webos a success.
    And *if* it becomes a success – then the fruits would not have to be shared as with Android.

    It's not without costly risks. But all the options carry costly risks.

    The base OS of webos is still the best on the market (IMHO -but there are solid arguments to argue that). It was that far ahead that even after 2 years of neglect and coma it still is ahead in some parts.

    Lack of apps is a serious hindrance - because at the end of the day people use the OS to launch and use apps (or at least a very capable browser). Serious and costly - but not unfixable. Because the raw numbers don't count. You don't need half a million apps to compete.
    One could either make it Android compatible - or invest a few months to develop/buy the core hundred or so apps needed to make most of the rest.

    Even now plenty of people buy smartphones and tablets without actually understanding whether it has Android or IOS on it. Show them stuff they like at a tempting price and assurance that it won't vanish after a few months and you could still a foothold into the market.
    And devs who cover Android, IOS and possibly W8 with portable tools like PhoneGap/Cordova (or later possibly Enyo) can easily add another platform - and will do so as soon as it takes off even a little bit. Because it's relatively cheap another platform if you already have the engine and the assets and already ported to 2-3 platforms.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
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  12. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    Hmmm. I'm afraid I'm not clear if LG are developing webOS or OPENwebOS. Maybe that will become significant, maybe not. If LG make a successful webOS phone, then if open, others could follow using OwOS like Android. If closed, they might license from HP.

    Open would likely favour the consumer; closed would advantage LG & HP. Whatever! We continue to discuss currently mythical future hardware!
    From the LG Newsroom: LG Newsroom

    "...LG has entered into a definitive agreement with HP to acquire the source code, associated documentation, engineering talent and related websites associated with webOS. As part of the transaction, LG also will receive licenses under HP’s intellectual property (IP) for use with its webOS products, including patents acquired from Palm covering fundamental operating system and user interface technologies now in broad use across the industry...

    ...Also under the agreement:
    - LG will assume stewardship of the open source projects of Open WebOS and Enyo.
    - HP will retain ownership of all of Palm’s cloud computing assets, including source code, talent, infrastructure and contracts.
    - HP will continue to support Palm users..."


    So as it stands: LG has ownership of proprietary webOS code and licensing to use it in actual products. That would be an exclusive to Legacy. They own the code. If any other player wanted to release a webOS device they would need licensing from LG & HP. Prohibitive.

    LG also takes over stewardship of the Open Project so any developments they make outside of proprietary drivers could be used to advance Open webOS.

    It appears to me that Proprietary webOS is going to fork and that will be used on products only LG is in a position to release. Yet they will support Open and not alienate this community. I think everyone benefits from this one. LG, HP, you and me.




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  13. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    We also don't know the exact reasons Best Buy was upset and wanted to return the hardware. Even if sales where disappointing it would be unusual for it's CEO to throw a tantrum and send everything back. Before that there would have been usually negotiations about rebates and/or guarantees etc... After all HP is a big business partner. A single underselling product is no reason to sour the relations like this.
    This goes against business 101.

    No company can sit on 250K unsold units with less than a 10% sell through in 6 weeks - even after dropping the price. That isn't a tantrum. It's real life business.

    Is the Best Buy/HP relationship soured? Should Best Buy have eaten millions worth of stock for HP and had over $50 million in unsold stock in their warehouse that they had to pay for?

    Of course not.
  14. Loiter's Avatar
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    #35  
    Technology is constantly evolving and nothing stays the same for ever. First we only saw Blackberries, then the iPhone came. Then Android came and people were laughing at it, and then it conquered the world.
    I admit it currently seems that this race is only for two, but will it forever be?

    I'm not optimistic about webOS, but in reading some of the posts I cannot stop but to wonder if people realize that some days ago there were new OSes presented in MWC. We currently have 4 (four) new OSes coming.
    And I'm talking about Firefox OS which looks and feels like an ancient system, like some chinese Android clone.
    However, Firefox has already managed to find different manufacturers and carriers (which I know is important in the US). Firefox is FUGLY, laggy and not intuitive. However the people behind it supported it. They aim at low-budget devices for starters.

    Then we have Tizen. It is made by the company that managed to become No2 (or No1, I don't know) in this market. Samsung is the only Android manufacturer that makes good money. Nonetheless, they decided to present phones with a different OS. Why? Do they seem like the guys that would throw money out of the window? Or they just want to be sure they have an alternative in the case something doesnt go well with Android.

    Of course there is the ambitious Ubuntu. They want to present a more eco-system-y solution. Desktops-phones etc running the same. Until now they are something like open webOS. They just port their OS in devices running Android. They have to find hardware and carrier support.

    Lastly, we have the guys from Finland. The glorious meego (I always feel Meego is the lost brother of webOS, the two best OSes out there) is becoming something new. Without much money, without much support, however they are presenting something else. Their OS looks nice but again who will support it?

    And let's not forget that there are BB10 and Windows. Will all of them succeed? No, not really. But they cannot all be that stupid. Each one has a different strategic plan. And maybe the best, the luckiest, the best advertized of them will make it. And become no3, and then maybe no2 and no1

    For me LG could be thinking a bit like Samsung with some Ubuntu touch. They have Android, but it doesnt help them much. They just don't make enough money. They want to have another option and most of all they wish to make an ecosystem, but a different kind of ecosystem than we are used to now. A "smart" house. With devices communicating, with the ability to control your house through an easy system (webOS is easy to use). In order to do this however they would need to make it fast. To make more than one device with webOS. A webOS-TV by itself is nothing. And this is where they would need to improve webOS, to make it faster, better and with the ability to run on different devices. And then maybe the device to rule them all. An LG phone.
    Wishful thinking? Probably yes, but as naive this idea seems, I cannot stop but think that people here being dismissive are not realizing that things continue to change, to evolve.
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  15. #36  
    Don't forget Palm OS. That was before the iPhone and Andriod as well.
  16. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Loiter View Post
    Technology is constantly evolving and nothing stays the same for ever.... ...It currently seems that this race is only for two, but will it forever be?

    ...For me LG could be thinking a bit like Samsung with some Ubuntu touch. They have Android, but it doesnt help them much. They just don't make enough money. They want to have another option and most of all they wish to make an ecosystem, but a different kind of ecosystem than we are used to now. A "smart" house. With devices communicating, with the ability to control your house through an easy system (webOS is easy to use). In order to do this however they would need to make it fast. To make more than one device with webOS. A webOS-TV by itself is nothing. And this is where they would need to improve webOS, to make it faster, better and with the ability to run on different devices. And then maybe the device to rule them all. An LG phone.
    Wishful thinking? Probably yes, but as naive this idea seems, I cannot stop but think that people here being dismissive are not realizing that things continue to change, to evolve...
    Absolutely.

    Belief that what is or what was, always will be; that is an unproductive and unrealistic mindset.

    Businesses want to evolve, to become more successful. In a market place with one huge "Only Me" block (iOS) and one huge "We Too" block (Android), it becomes frustrating for a company with drive and vision to be relegated to a pack of also rans.
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  17. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by RumoredNow View Post
    Absolutely.

    Belief that what is or what was, always will be; that is an unproductive and unrealistic mindset.

    Businesses want to evolve, to become more successful. In a market place with one huge "Only Me" block (iOS) and one huge "We Too" block (Android), it becomes frustrating for a company with drive and vision to be relegated to a pack of also rans.
    They just have to build something that a lot people want to use daily . It's not rocket science.
  18. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    This goes against business 101.

    No company can sit on 250K unsold units with less than a 10% sell through in 6 weeks - even after dropping the price. That isn't a tantrum. It's real life business.

    Is the Best Buy/HP relationship soured? Should Best Buy have eaten millions worth of stock for HP and had over $50 million in unsold stock in their warehouse that they had to pay for?

    Of course not.
    Of course not.
    But you misunderstood what I said.
    Naturally Best Buy wouldn't watch the stuff rot in its aisles.

    But they wouldn't just send it back either. CEO would grab phone and negotiate ("you guys need to do an extra marketing push and subsidize some sale promotions and bundles").
    I'm saying he *wasn't* throwing a tantrum because of disappointing sales. Remember that we all learned a short time later that HP was about to drop its PC division. And it clearly wasn't meant to be published at the time. There we obviously leaks and they had no choice anymore and hat to go public.
    So IMHO the best explanation is that Best Buy got wind of HPs plans - and that's why they got angry and just wanted to return everything. Because there is no point in negotiating and working with an HP that leaves the whole business Best Buy is involved in.

    Not only was it an idiotic plan to begin with, it was also poorly planned and executed.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  19. #40  
    Richard Windsor is a financial analyst who writes the blog "Radio Free Mobile". I can't speak to his finance credentials, but he definitely can write coherently about investing in tech. In his latest blog post (on LG, but not webOS), he writes: "LGE does not really know anything about software."

    LGE
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