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  • 4 Post By theinvisibleduck
  • 1 Post By NoApple
  1.    #1  
    I have been idly contemplating starting a KickStarter project (or something similar) in Aug. or Sept. after WebOS is completely open sourced in order to get WebOS to boot on Android Nexus devices.

    Of course it may not be necessary -If it ends up being truly easy to make webOS work on Nexus devices then this may be a non-issue and we will just let our incredible homebrew community take care of it. Who knows, maybe that is exactly what HP is planning to support.

    If not, I am mostly just concerned about getting it to work with other processors and 3G radios than it currently does, which are usually proprietary and may take funding to get access to. It really depends on what HP gives us to work with.

    Targeting recent Nexus devices means it would start as only one phone a year which seems feasible and it would give consumers a heads up e.g. "Google is about to release a nexus phone" would become almost synonymous with "HP is about to release a WebOS phone" in case anyone was interested in getting a webOS phone.

    Anyone interested, have any thoughts, or comments?
  2. #2  
    I think it is a great idea as referenced by WebOSNation.com article a few days ago and I'd love to see webOS on my Droid Bionic or otherwise.

    Sadly though my Droid Bionic is looked on less favorably in the Android community and I suspect I'll never see ICS let alone webOS on this Dual-core almost perfect device. Actually, my Bionic has been a nightmare at times and 3g/4g/WIFI issues alone would drive most people to drink.

    Either way, I think Kickstart would be good with the right group leading the promotion and formulating a plan to make it happen. Everything takes money to accomplish and any help would be better then nothing...look how much over the years has been generated for webOS Internals and other Homebrew supporters. Sorli...
  3. NoApple's Avatar
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    #3  
    Why not just propose to restart Touchpad and Pre3 production? The IP is worth nothing to HP, and we know they're good products that work?
    Surely the manufacturers of those devices could restart even to produce a minimum run of each
    mafu6 likes this.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by dignitary View Post

    Your first flaw is that you sound like you're taking up a "donation pool" to pay developers to do this, which is not how Kickstarter works at all; chances are high that Kickstarter wouldn't even allow it to be posted since they sanity-check each proposal for feasibility and the ability to deliver on your promises, and if you're promising you'll find other people to do the work for you and you're just the money guy, that just won't fly. The people that post their efforts and get accepted to solicit their proposals do the work themselves and/or lead the project from start to finish and have extraordinary subject matter experience in any case. If you cross the threshold of whatever your limit is and can't deliver the product you've committed to delivering, well, I hope you have an awesome lawyer because you're going to need it.
    Kickstarter is pretty lenient actually! my fiance and her very FAKE company have put up a kickstarter video & have begun asking for donations so they can make a trip to Chicago for a competition they are involved in. .. So, let's look at this for a second: A - not a real company, B - raising the money for a trip to Chicago for a chance to win 1000 dollars and C - Kickstarter has allowed it.

    So to say that Kickstarter wouldn't be possible on those grounds, I'd have to throw out...

    In the end, i'm also going to add that Many many businesses fail before even getting off the ground.. How many people have an idea, get financial backing for it and then can't deliver in the product? MANY MANY people! You don't hear about them because it happens every day and it's nothing special. No one is going to be sued because they promised a webOS phone on an android device - got millions of dollars for and didn't deliver.

    The fact is, if you can raise Millions (or say 1 million) on kickstarter & You CAN'T produce 1 open source webOS on an Android phone, you clearly are doing something wrong w/ your company and deserve to be bankrupt afterwords. But lets face it, it's all about having the right people, the right plan & the money. Something tells me, i **** have 1 million benjamins.. you can probably get some right people
  5. #5  
    Google "Community Guidelines for Kickstarter".
    Two key points:


    No "fund my life" projects. Examples include projects to pay tuition or bills, go on vacation, or buy a new camera.

    Funding for creative projects only. A project has a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it. A project is not open-ended. Starting a business, for example, does not qualify as a project.
    It sounds like maybe they found a loophole or something to that effect? Maybe they didn't, but it seems like dignitary's post is in the right direction.
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2 about anything. I may however, give a nickel
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zukny View Post
    Kickstarter is pretty lenient actually! my fiance and her very FAKE company have put up a kickstarter video & have begun asking for donations so they can make a trip to Chicago for a competition they are involved in. .. So, let's look at this for a second: A - not a real company, B - raising the money for a trip to Chicago for a chance to win 1000 dollars and C - Kickstarter has allowed it.
    LOL, you need a new fiance...

    JK
  7. cgk
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    #7  
    Plus if you think that such a project will take at least 12 months to get off the ground, by then the touchpad spec will be pretty old.

    Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
  8. #8  
    Honestly, I think we have a better chance to get openWebOS running on an existing device/platform.

    Because it is not only about "building" a new phone, it is about marketing, updating, support, etc, all needing infrastructure that has to be erected from scratch.
    If you use an existing platform, all these things are already there.

    my 2 cents so far.
    War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
  9.    #9  
    Dignitary-very good points. I think convincing kickstarter (or something similar) to take the project wouldn't be terribly hard. Just focus on one phone at a time and make sure it is clear it isn't a business, and it probably will be okay.

    Getting webOS to run correctly IS the hardest part, which is the whole point of what this thread is about. If webOS internals ends up making (almost) everything work. I'm happy. If HP decides to release phones again. I'm happy. Shoot even if Nokia releases more MeeGo phones. I'm happy-there is enough webOS DNA in them that I would get by.

    Completing the circle-Yes you are right. That being said the practical part of me says if none of those happens, it is worth it to me to at least try to tackle the project. As a project manager often the first step is to start the discussion.

    So here we are -and thank you Dignitary.
  10. NoApple's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by dignitary View Post
    At a minimum run, the component and manufacturing prices skyrocket. The reason Apple and Samsung can keep their margins high is precisely because they can produce devices knowing they'll be ordering unmatched bulk quantities of components and each have an iron-fisted control of the supply-chain. And, in this case, Apple still trumps Samsung even though, ironically, Samsung has traditionally been a major supplier of components to Apple itself. Carrier subsidies and advance purcahses by said carriers also takes away the sting--and you wouldn't have that benefit.

    Order 10,000--or even 100,000--of a device and you're looking at spending almost twice, if not much more in many cases, the price the Apples and Samsungs of the world pay. And that adds up to a market-unfriendly cost overall, especially when you add in packaging costs (which are entirely separate), technical support costs, warranty insurance, legal liability (patents, batteries blowing up in customers' faces, etc), governmental testing and clearance for radiation concerns (i.e., FCC clearance), etc.

    And who's going to pay for the bodies to work on those devices, exactly? Not only are you dealing with manufacturing contracts for set amounts of labor--bodies working to assemble each unit--you're also getting a guarantee of device numbers. And that sure as hell isn't cheap whether you go through HP or the manufacturers themselves (who'd end up sued huge for manufacturing another company's intellectual property and patent infringement by building these devices without HP's explicit blessing).

    And if you want to re-manufacture a Touchpad with a notoriously brittle back cover and faulty audio without it being fixed, good luck selling it. You'd, at the very least, need to shore up the problems present with existing devices or you'd be laughed out of town. Especially with so many Touchpads on the secondary refurb market already that aren't selling out--even on Woot.

    What's being proposed in your post isn't Open Pandora (the "home-made" handheld arcade built with mostly modest and common off-the-shelf components); it's proposing to produce a device that requires several magnitudes more thought, funding, governmental involvement, and legal representation before it were to realistically happen--before considering that HP really wants nothing to do with wasting money on re-manufacturing devices that are objectively now second-tier compared to what's coming out nowadays and would, in the numbers that could be realistically manufactured, guarantee them a net loss. Also, you aren't HP, so you'd be subject to all of the above at your own personal expense.

    Even proposing this demonstrates a grave lack of understanding Business 101 and supply chains, and it's precisely the part of the story where the dreams tend to get crushed rather quickly in the face of reality.
    The costs you refer too are EXACTLY why I propose a restart of Pre3, Veer and TP production.

    The OEMs of those devices already have the dies, parts list and production processes in place. The devices already have technical support., legal liability (patents, batteries blowing up in customers' faces, etc), governmental testing and clearance for radiation concerns (i.e., FCC clearance), etc. Those costs have already been spent. All we need is the blessing of HP to use their IP (which is worthless to them anyway) and some cash to get things started.

    This thread proposes manufacturing brand new devices which haven't even been designed yet!!!

    New devices would have ALL the costs you refer too, plus need engineers to design them, manufacturers to build them and would be years away from production. If it takes huge multi-nationals years, how long will it take for a group of disparate volunteers?????

    That is an unrealistic dream.

    Don't talk about supply chains (which are easily restarted) when the device hasn't even been frikkin designed!!!
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    #11  
    I note several comments about webOS internals doing a lot of this gear / let's wait to see what webOS internals comes up with etc. Unless I'm wrong I'm pretty sure Rod volunteers his time and resources in that project, and while I don't doubt his abilities in webOS development I don't think it's fair of us to assume he'll just pick up the tab so we can continue to have webOS development done. At the very least it'd be nice seeing the suggestion of a donation to WOSI, but even that isn't likely to come close to meeting the costs involved in Rod doing this.
  12. #12  
    I'd make a pledge if someone could make the WindsorNot a reality...

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