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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by ElecTriXx View Post
    Is it possible to change the tab-key through JSON-file?
    What do you mean by saying "change"? What exactly do you want to do with the TAB key?
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  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by isagar2004 View Post
    What do you mean by saying "change"? What exactly do you want to do with the TAB key?
    Well, make it a static button to insert a static char instead?
    Edit: Maybe also change the size of the ALT-button (the one to the right of TAB) so it's a normal size?
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by ElecTriXx View Post
    Well, make it a static button to insert a static char instead?
    Edit: Maybe also change the size of the ALT-button (the one to the right of TAB) so it's a normal size?
    I don't see any reason to replace the TAB key, but it is possible. Resizing the "secondary keys" key is also possible. Just read the wiki page before you change anything.
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  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by isagar2004 View Post
    I don't see any reason to replace the TAB key, but it is possible. Resizing the "secondary keys" key is also possible. Just read the wiki page before you change anything.
    No worries, I run the emulator through SDK. I red alot on the wiki and changed quite a bit but could never get any changes of those two buttons..
    Tried to change the TAB-key to a regular "A"-key but it wouldn't set it.

    Maybe thought that those were hardcoded.. Just as the EXT-set in the JSON-file won't override the EXT-set the systems set.. Or am I looking in the wrong place?
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by ElecTriXx View Post
    No worries, I run the emulator through SDK. I red alot on the wiki and changed quite a bit but could never get any changes of those two buttons..
    Tried to change the TAB-key to a regular "A"-key but it wouldn't set it.

    Maybe thought that those were hardcoded.. Just as the EXT-set in the JSON-file won't override the EXT-set the systems set.. Or am I looking in the wrong place?
    The TAB key defined in the JSON file as 0001 of V type. Have you changed the value and the type (from V to C) of the main and secondary key in all the 4 variants of the bottom row? (4, 5, 6, and 7 rows are all just different variants of the same bottom row. If you're trying to replace the TAB key, you should edit them all).
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  6. #26  
    I don't suppose there would be any way to copy the iPad keyboard layout? I think I prefer their approach of omitting the number keys in favor of larger virtual keys.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by isagar2004 View Post
    The TAB key defined in the JSON file as 0001 of V type. Have you changed the value and the type (from V to C) of the main and secondary key in all the 4 variants of the bottom row? (4, 5, 6, and 7 rows are all just different variants of the same bottom row. If you're trying to replace the TAB key, you should edit them all).
    AH! Of course.. Forgot about that :$ Thanks very much!
  8. #28  
    When I get some time, I'll look into adding an ESCAPE key so I can use vi.

    This is pretty awesome. Thanks.
  9. #29  
    Id pay for a good "Thumbs" keyboard
  10.    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by fenguin View Post
    I don't suppose there would be any way to copy the iPad keyboard layout? I think I prefer their approach of omitting the number keys in favor of larger virtual keys.
    Sorry, but no. You can remove the numbers row but you won't get larger keys.

    Quote Originally Posted by jblather View Post
    When I get some time, I'll look into adding an ESCAPE key so I can use vi.

    This is pretty awesome. Thanks.
    I think it's pretty much impossible because the virtual keyboard isn't exactly a keyboard and it works only with the internal LunaSysMgr's predefined keys.

    Quote Originally Posted by strykr View Post
    Id pay for a good "Thumbs" keyboard
    Because of the way HP coded the keyboards into LunaSysMgr, split keyboard won't be possible until they'll officially support it, but I'll see what I can do.
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  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by isagar2004 View Post
    I took your suggestions and did a little research that ended up with the layout I call tabDvorak. See the screenshot and the download link at the end of the first post. I tried to move the A key as you asked but it has made the keys on this row narrow as they were before, so I decided to leave it as it is. I hope you'll like what I did and find it useful.
    This is much better (for me) anyway than the first one. Thank you for taking the time to improve it. The relationship between the middle (home) row and the bottom row of letters, in particular, is quite good. I agree with you that the home row is already quite small and shifting it over would only make it worse.

    However, if I could make two more suggestions which I think could make a big difference. The biggest problem I have is that the top row feels really off and uncomfortable to use. I think this problem would be fixed if you moved the apostrophe key from the top row to the number row (replacing the tilda you added). This would allow you to shift all of the keys over one which would relate them more naturally to the other rows as they would be on a real keyboard accommodating the fact that you couldn't shift over the middle row. You can probably make the backspace key larger to fill-in the added space.

    My other suggestion is to perhaps make the enter key smaller if it's possible, maybe about as large as the shift key below it, I think this would allow you to make all of the keys on the home row a little fatter and thus easier to type. When I'm touch typing I don't press enter nearly as often as I use the other home row keys.

    I hope I'm not annoying you with these suggestions, but I really do think those two changes would make this keyboard significantly better. In any case, thank you very much for all of the efforts you have already made to help put a Dvorak keyboard on the touchpad!
    Last edited by hzhp422; 09/06/2011 at 03:10 PM.
  12. #32  
    I just wanted to drop in and say thank you for a great mod!
  13. #33  
    Great mod. Any chance of a layout that shows the sign on the number 4 key instead of $ for those of us not in the US? Thanks.
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  14.    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by hzhp422 View Post
    This is much better (for me) anyway than the first one. Thank you for taking the time to improve it. The relationship between the middle (home) row and the bottom row of letters, in particular, is quite good. I agree with you that the home row is already quite small and shifting it over would only make it worse.

    However, if I could make two more suggestions which I think could make a big difference. The biggest problem I have is that the top row feels really off and uncomfortable to use. I think this problem would be fixed if you moved the apostrophe key from the top row to the number row (replacing the tilda you added). This would allow you to shift all of the keys over one which would relate them more naturally to the other rows as they would be on a real keyboard accommodating the fact that you couldn't shift over the middle row. You can probably make the backspace key larger to fill-in the added space.

    My other suggestion is to perhaps make the enter key smaller if it's possible, maybe about as large as the shift key below it, I think this would allow you to make all of the keys on the home row a little fatter and thus easier to type. When I'm touch typing I don't press enter nearly as often as I use the other home row keys.

    I hope I'm not annoying you with these suggestions, but I really do think those two changes would make this keyboard significantly better. In any case, thank you very much for all of the efforts you have already made to help put a Dvorak keyboard on the touchpad!
    I took your suggestions and updated the patch and the screenshot on the first post. Enjoy
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  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by nickp8 View Post
    Great mod. Any chance of a layout that shows the sign on the number 4 key instead of $ for those of us not in the US? Thanks.
    You can get this character from the extended set of the number 4 key by just tapping and holding it for a sec or two or from the R secondary key.
    I can make such patch, but I don't see any reason to do so. It takes exactly two taps as the original layout requires to type this character.
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  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by isagar2004 View Post
    I took your suggestions and updated the patch and the screenshot on the first post. Enjoy
    Thanks a lot for being so receptive and patient with our suggestions. Unfortunately, even with the latest update you generously provided the keyboard does not seem to be working for us. The keys are still significantly off in terms of their relationship to each other. We had hoped that moving the apostrophe and shifting all the keys over would be close enough and while it did improve the experience it was still significantly more frustrating to use than the default keyboard. We tested the default keyboard in portrait mode to see how the default keyboard with narrow keys would compare to the experience of using the tabDvorak in landscape mode and while the keys were a bit narrow it was significantly easier for us to type confidently and quickly even with such narrow keys. This has led us to conclude that the diagonal pattern we discussed earlier in our previous post is likely more important to the experience of typing than even the size of the keys.

    We can't imagine you want to spend anymore time on this so we can perfectly understand if you would rather just leave it be. We ourselves are beginning to consider the possibility that a satisfactory Dvorak experience may just not be possible on a tablet virtual keyboard. But our hopefully last suggestion for a revision would be to try to preserve the spatial relation (diagonal pattern) between the keys in each of the rows even at the expense of making the keys smaller. To potentially mitigate how much smaller they need to be you could probably preserve the layout choices made in the current version of TabDvorak, namely the removal of the apostrophe key and the semi-colon key from the top and bottom rows and then trying to preserve the relationship from there. That is the 'Q' key that starts the bottom row would land between the 'A' and 'O' keys above it. The 'O' key would be between the "comma" and "period" keys above it and so on and so-forth for the rest of the rows.

    This would result in narrower keys, but we believe that despite the smaller size by maintaining the proper spatial relationships they would still be significantly easier to type and provide a more competitive alternative to the default keyboard. While we would be grateful and eager to try these changes we completely understand if this seems too annoying to continue revising. We appreciate all of the effort you've put into this project regardless. Thanks again!
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by hzhp422 View Post
    Thanks a lot for being so receptive and patient with our suggestions. Unfortunately, even with the latest update you generously provided the keyboard does not seem to be working for us. The keys are still significantly off in terms of their relationship to each other. We had hoped that moving the apostrophe and shifting all the keys over would be close enough and while it did improve the experience it was still significantly more frustrating to use than the default keyboard. We tested the default keyboard in portrait mode to see how the default keyboard with narrow keys would compare to the experience of using the tabDvorak in landscape mode and while the keys were a bit narrow it was significantly easier for us to type confidently and quickly even with such narrow keys. This has led us to conclude that the diagonal pattern we discussed earlier in our previous post is likely more important to the experience of typing than even the size of the keys.

    We can't imagine you want to spend anymore time on this so we can perfectly understand if you would rather just leave it be. We ourselves are beginning to consider the possibility that a satisfactory Dvorak experience may just not be possible on a tablet virtual keyboard. But our hopefully last suggestion for a revision would be to try to preserve the spatial relation (diagonal pattern) between the keys in each of the rows even at the expense of making the keys smaller. To potentially mitigate how much smaller they need to be you could probably preserve the layout choices made in the current version of TabDvorak, namely the removal of the apostrophe key and the semi-colon key from the top and bottom rows and then trying to preserve the relationship from there. That is the 'Q' key that starts the bottom row would land between the 'A' and 'O' keys above it. The 'O' key would be between the "comma" and "period" keys above it and so on and so-forth for the rest of the rows.

    This would result in narrower keys, but we believe that despite the smaller size by maintaining the proper spatial relationships they would still be significantly easier to type and provide a more competitive alternative to the default keyboard. While we would be grateful and eager to try these changes we completely understand if this seems too annoying to continue revising. We appreciate all of the effort you've put into this project regardless. Thanks again!
    OK, I tried everything I could. In order to improve spatial relationships I couldn't keep all the changes I made and I had to put the apostrophe key back to its previous place. I let my friends to play with it and they said it's perfect for them, so I've updated the link and the screenshot in the first post.
    Note that this Dvorak layout is almost the only Dvorak layout for tablets. iOS (version 5) supports only physical Dvorak layout and there's only one or two Dvorak virtual keyboards for android tablets (none of them supported by Google itself). Maybe it means that the manufacturers think that Dvorak is not designed for work on a tablet.
    I did everything I could. If it still doesn't fit your needs, I'm sorry, but there is nothing I can do to help you.
    Last edited by isagar2004; 09/06/2011 at 08:10 PM.
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  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by isagar2004 View Post
    OK, I tried everything I could. In order to improve spatial relationships I couldn't keep all the changes I made and I had to put the apostrophe key back to its previous place. I let my friends to play with it and they said it's perfect for them, so I've updated the link and the screenshot in the first post.
    Note that this Dvorak layout is almost the only Dvorak layout for tablets. iOS (version 5) supports only physical Dvorak layout and there's only one or two Dvorak virtual keyboards for android tablets (none of them supported by Google itself). Maybe it means that the manufacturers think that Dvorak is not designed for work on a tablet.
    I did everything I could. If it still doesn't fit your needs, I'm sorry, but there is nothing I can do to help you.
    Thank you so much. We just tried it and it's wonderful. I'm so sorry that it took so much time and effort to get this right but your end product is amazing. We really appreciate your dedication, patience and energy. We made another donation to the cause; we hope other satisfied users will follow suit.
  19. #39  
    I have a request that was previously mentioned by another poster but im not sure i understood your reply. It was regarding the navigation arrow keys. Is there anyway you can have them included ? Specifically the left and right navigation keys. They would help so much while editing text. Your reply said it wasnt possible can you give a short explanation why? I am asking to learn not to question or insult ur abilitys or anything like that.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by isagar2004 View Post
    You can get this character from the extended set of the number 4 key by just tapping and holding it for a sec or two or from the R secondary key.
    I can make such patch, but I don't see any reason to do so. It takes exactly two taps as the original layout requires to type this character.
    It is just a visual thing, would be nice if it showed 4 / instead and default was to type symbol when pressing shift 4.
    Last edited by nickp8; 09/07/2011 at 05:39 AM.
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