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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by Taurec View Post
    Btw I'm currently in contact with the Dev from jVault. Hope to confince him to release my changes over the App-Cat or at least alow me to release it here.
    he says clearly that he is waiting for dev consent, see above.
  2. #142  
    @Dan I know in your post you said you didn't read the whole thread, but at this point with all the posting back and forth about the OP's plan of action. Please go back a page or 2 and read the discussion between him and Rod. I believe all your concerns are all answered in that discussion.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  3. Taurec's Avatar
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       #143  
    True I will not publish any Patch here without the Developer aproval. I will make this more clear in the first posting.

    Btw I just got a Mail from Groveshark that they are working on a Touchpad Release.
    Also SplashData does not only like my SplashId patch they send me the next release to change it too and they even asked me if I can do another of their Apps.
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by Taurec View Post
    True I will not publish any Patch here without the Developer aproval. I will make this more clear in the first posting..
    Thanks...that's all I was looking for. The first post doesn't currently make that clear.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
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       #145  
    changed the first posting. Hope it is now more clear. I have to go to bed
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by Taurec View Post
    Also SplashData does not only like my SplashId patch they send me the next release to change it too and they even asked me if I can do another of their Apps.
    Are they going to just merge your patch in with their future releases? That would be the best option.
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by Taurec View Post
    changed the first posting. Hope it is now more clear. I have to go to bed
    Yes, that's a bit more clear. However I noticed you have a section in that post titled "Waiting for someone to send me the SourceCode to take a look". If you're requiring the developer give consent before patching, why not just get the source code from the developer who already gave consent?

    Also I noticed "Pandora" was one of the apps "Waiting for someone to volunteer to create the Patch". So Pandora gave you consent to patch their app? I'm just surprised they would do that.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    Also I noticed "Pandora" was one of the apps "Waiting for someone to volunteer to create the Patch". So Pandora gave you consent to patch their app? I'm just surprised they would do that.
    I think he is not contacting directly because he has no way to patch Pandora (outside of US), so he is looking for someone who can follow through to make that contact with them.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  9. #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    Yes, that's a bit more clear. However I noticed you have a section in that post titled "Waiting for someone to send me the SourceCode to take a look". If you're requiring the developer give consent before patching, why not just get the source code from the developer who already gave consent?

    Also I noticed "Pandora" was one of the apps "Waiting for someone to volunteer to create the Patch". So Pandora gave you consent to patch their app? I'm just surprised they would do that.
    I understand he first looks at the code to see if he knows how to make the patch. If he determines yes, then he reaches out to the dev for permission before going forward.
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    I understand he first looks at the code to see if he knows how to make the patch. If he determines yes, then he reaches out to the dev for permission before going forward.
    Since it was mentioned, he also looks to see if it will be functional to patch (pretty sure he said that in the first couple pages of this thread).
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  11. #151  
    I think any dev who is worth their salt with have either updated their Mojo app to full-screen already or will be working on an Enyo update, or will have a good reason why neither is a good idea.

    If they don't care enough about the community to do either, then as long as copyright is not being violated there is plenty of legal precedent for distribution of patches.

    Now, if a developer does care enough to come here and request that the patch be removed, then there is a moral obligation to listen to their case. There will of course be many good reasons why a full-screen patch for certain apps may not be a good idea.

    -- Rod
    Last edited by rwhitby; 08/11/2011 at 06:31 PM.
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
    AMR-1 and hparsons like this.
  12. #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    I think any dev who is worth their salt with have either updated their Mojo app to full-screen already or will be working on an Enyo update.

    If they don't care enough about the community to do either, then as long as copyright is not being violated there is plenty of legal precedent for distribution of patches.

    Now, if a developer does care enough to come here and request that the patch be removed, then there is a moral obligation to listen to their case. There will of course be many good reasons why a full-screen patch for certain apps may not be a good idea.

    -- Rod
    Completely agree here
  13. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    I think any dev who is worth their salt with have either updated their Mojo app to full-screen already or will be working on an Enyo update.

    If they don't care enough about the community to do either, then as long as copyright is not being violated there is plenty of legal precedent for distribution of patches.

    Now, if a developer does care enough to come here and request that the patch be removed, then there is a moral obligation to listen to their case. There will of course be many good reasons why a full-screen patch for certain apps may not be a good idea.

    -- Rod
    First you label developers "not worth their salt" or "not caring of the community" if they don't make an app full-screen or Enyo. Then you say "There will of course be many good reasons why a full-screen patch for certain apps may not be a good idea". So which one is it, because the two statements contradict themselves.

    Personally I agree with your second statement that there are some reasons why it doesn't make sense to convert an app to full-screen. For instance, there will be no full-screen Mojo or Enyo conversions of my GeoStrings app because the TouchPad has no GPS chip and therefore my app will not work reliably. This doesn't make me less caring of the community. It's just this particular app isn't too useful on the TouchPad. One day when Enyo is available for phones and HP completely eliminates Mojo, then I can decide whether to port it to Enyo.

    The other app I won't convert to full-screen Mojo or Enyo is Quick Post. The app itself is only used for configuration. Most of the time it's used in "Just Type" mode. There's no need for a full-screen or Enyo conversion.

    These are just 2 examples. I'm sure there are many more.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    I think any dev who is worth their salt with have either updated their Mojo app to full-screen already or will be working on an Enyo update.

    If they don't care enough about the community to do either, then as long as copyright is not being violated there is plenty of legal precedent for distribution of patches.

    Now, if a developer does care enough to come here and request that the patch be removed, then there is a moral obligation to listen to their case. There will of course be many good reasons why a full-screen patch for certain apps may not be a good idea.

    -- Rod
    Well stated, Rod. People need to remember the whole reason we even *have* patches is in order to make changes the original developer (be it Palm/HP or a third party) are unwilling or unable to make themselves. It has nothing to do with the original developer's consent - if that were the case, people could distribute entire patched applications, instead of just the patches themselves.

    I'm curious, though, to see Dan making the argument he is. As I recall, his Music Player Remix started out as a personal project to add functionality to Palm's original Music Player in webOS 1.0. For his own private use, this was perfectly fine - it was only once he wanted to publish the derivative work as a new application that he needed Palm's permission.

    In effect, patches are simply a convenient, automated mechanism for people to share *instructions* on how to modify software they already own, for their own private use. Some may consider this an insignificant distinction (vs. actual redistribution of modified software itself), but it's really the legal foundation upon which the entire webOS "homebrew" ecosystem is based. For evidence of this, just watch that vein on Rod's forehead start throbbing whenever some well-meaning "newbie" wants to share complete, modified webOS Doctor *images* for everyone's convenience...

    --John
    hparsons likes this.
  15. #155  
    To be clear about the legality issues involved here:

    1) Distribution of apps (whether modified or unmodified) in binary or source form against the software license without the author's consent is an illegal act. It will not be tolerated in this thread or by WebOS Internals. This is inviolate.

    2) Patching by the end user is perfectly legal, and seems to be something that lots of end users find very useful when applied to webOS itself. As long as the modified app itself is not distributed, there is no legal issue with patching. Of course if you try and hide an illegal redistribution of an app in the format of a patch, what you are doing continues to be illegal.

    Now, with that aside, you come to the moral/ethical issues.

    1) The webOS community is a tight-nit community, and you can be sure that anyone who does something "morally wrong" (i.e. legally allowed, but ethically bad) will be dealt with by the community.

    2) Every end user has the right to do whatever they want with their device and the software they have purchased for their device, as long as they do so legally (i.e. redistributing apps from their device to another device or person violates copyright).

    Here's an analogy:

    When you purchase a car, it comes in a certain configuration from the manufacturer.

    After the car is yours, you can repaint it whatever colour you like, and you can change the stereo to whatever third-party brand you like. You can even start a business to create and sell kits that allows other end-users to do the same.


    Having said all this, the webOS community should also realise that it is a small one, and our developers are precious. Those developers that stick with the community should be respected, not only legally (rememeber this is inviolate), but also ethically and perhaps even consentually.

    -- Rod
    Last edited by rwhitby; 08/11/2011 at 09:05 PM.
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
    ryltar and hparsons like this.
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    Personally I agree with your second statement that there are some reasons why it doesn't make sense to convert an app to full-screen. For instance, there will be no full-screen Mojo or Enyo conversions of my GeoStrings app because the TouchPad has no GPS chip and therefore my app will not work reliably. This doesn't make me less caring of the community. It's just this particular app isn't too useful on the TouchPad. One day when Enyo is available for phones and HP completely eliminates Mojo, then I can decide whether to port it to Enyo.
    4G TP will have GPS.
    Last edited by OldSkoolVWLover; 08/11/2011 at 06:41 PM.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  17. #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    First you label developers "not worth their salt" or "not caring of the community" if they don't make an app full-screen or Enyo. Then you say "There will of course be many good reasons why a full-screen patch for certain apps may not be a good idea". So which one is it, because the two statements contradict themselves.
    Thanks, I have updated the statement to clarify.

    It is clear that you are one of the developers who care deeply about this community.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
    AMR-1 likes this.
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbennett View Post
    I'm curious, though, to see Dan making the argument he is. As I recall, his Music Player Remix started out as a personal project to add functionality to Palm's original Music Player in webOS 1.0. For his own private use, this was perfectly fine - it was only once he wanted to publish the derivative work as a new application that he needed Palm's permission.

    --John
    The only thing I was looking for was confirmation that the patch author was contacting devs to make sure it was ok. He confirmed it. I'm fine with patching the apps if the app's dev is ok with it. Palm was ok with me messing with their music app. If they weren't, the "remix" project would have never continued.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Thanks, I have updated the statement to clarify.

    It is clear that you are one of the developers who care deeply about this community.

    -- Rod
    Thanks...much better!
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  20. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    4G TP will have GPS.
    It will...but I still think GeoStrings wouldn't be a good fit on a tablet. The whole purpose of the app is to be reminded to do something wherever you are. Most people don't lug around a tablet everywhere they go. But anyway, that's a whole separate discussion.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
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