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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    You are correct that really smart handsets are our best bet for getting the best of all possible worlds. Any decade now you may get a Treo with Wi-Fi. You may even be able to afford it when it comes.
    Isn't it funny that some of us will pay anything for a Treo to avoid high rates, while others will pay any rates to be able to say that they got their Treo for nothing. It is as though we had never heard of "total cost of ownership."
  2. DHart's Avatar
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    #22  
    I'm sorry you feel that way, whmurray. My intention was only to say that Wi-Fi and a VOIP application to make "free" phone calls is a much less expensive option than the thru the nose fees charged by service providers. I am sorry you feel that I am trying to project my "lifestyle" on everyone else. I think most people are in favor of lowering their costs. Of course, nothing is free. There are many people here at TreoCentral who are excited at the prospect of Wi-Fi on their phones. You have been here a long time and you know this. VOIP for "free" voice calls to anywhere in the world that supplements the minutes you pay a service provider for would be icing on the cake.

    Of course, Wi-Fi hotspots are not always free. But the cost is less than service provider minute costs. Plus, you get a faster data connection at the same time to help you reduce the cost of your data service. The net effect is increased competition that drives down service provider pricing.

    Regarding relative speeds of Wi-Fi vs EVDO/HSPDA, everyone has a story about "well, I did this and this is what I experienced". I am not in any way disputing those experiences. As is well documented, the specs for technology that are set by standards organizations do not reflect real world experiences. But if the published spec for data transmission for one technology is much greater than another, the potential for better performance is there. As Wi-Fi networks expand and mature, that inherent speed advantage COULD alter the wireless communication landscape.

    Hell, my livelihood is based on supplying equipment to cellular network OEM's. I have an inherent interest in seeing them dominate the market. But I am sorry, I stand by my statement. Wi-Fi and VOIP are killer applications for smartphones. Your mileage may vary.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart
    I'm sorry you feel that way, whmurray. My intention was only to say that Wi-Fi and a VOIP application to make "free" phone calls is a much less expensive option than the thru the nose fees charged by service providers. I am sorry you feel that I am trying to project my "lifestyle" on everyone else. I think most people are in favor of lowering their costs. Of course, nothing is free. There are many people here at TreoCentral who are excited at the prospect of Wi-Fi on their phones. You have been here a long time and you know this. VOIP for "free" voice calls to anywhere in the world that supplements the minutes you pay a service provider for would be icing on the cake.

    Of course, Wi-Fi hotspots are not always free. But the cost is less than service provider minute costs. Plus, you get a faster data connection at the same time to help you reduce the cost of your data service. The net effect is increased competition that drives down service provider pricing.

    Regarding relative speeds of Wi-Fi vs EVDO/HSPDA, everyone has a story about "well, I did this and this is what I experienced". I am not in any way disputing those experiences. As is well documented, the specs for technology that are set by standards organizations do not reflect real world experiences. But if the published spec for data transmission for one technology is much greater than another, the potential for better performance is there. As Wi-Fi networks expand and mature, that inherent speed advantage COULD alter the wireless communication landscape.

    Hell, my livelihood is based on supplying equipment to cellular network OEM's. I have an inherent interest in seeing them dominate the market. But I am sorry, I stand by my statement. Wi-Fi and VOIP are killer applications for smartphones. Your mileage may vary.
    Would you at least acknowledge the argument that for many of us coverage trumps cost.
  4. DHart's Avatar
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    #24  
    So, this is what your tirade was about? If you really want coverage, switch to GSM. It accounts for about 70% of the globe. If you're talking about just the US, then GSM vs CDMA is a wash.

    As I said before, your mileage may vary. Whatever floats your boat. But I think you're missing the point. I'm not saying Wi-Fi/VOIP is BETTER than cellular. Certainly cellular is a better proposition. But Wi-Fi/VOIP could become a very important supplement to cellular that would help drive down costs for EVERYONE. We are already seeing VOIP have an effect on landline costs. Growth is exploding on the business side. Growth will be even faster on the consumer side when 911 location technology is implemented everywhere.

    I checked yesterday. My current landline phone bill is about $55/month through my local cable company before long distance charges. Switching to AT&T VOIP lowers my bill (with the same services) PLUS all you can eat long distance in the US to about $32/month.

    Disclaimer: I have no relationship with AT&T as a customer, supplier, or as an employee. I just have read several reviews that say they offer the best cost/services package for landline VOIP right now.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart
    So, this is what your tirade was about? If you really want coverage, switch to GSM. It accounts for about 70% of the globe. If you're talking about just the US, then GSM vs CDMA is a wash.
    If you choose to dismiss it in any case, characterize it any way you like.

    I am a GSM user in any case. I have used my GSM Treo to connect to the Internet all over the world. My normal phone connection is SJPhone over Wi-Fi to my ISP to Vonage to the PSTN.

    Quote Originally Posted by DHart
    As I said before, your mileage may vary. Whatever floats your boat. But I think you're missing the point. I'm not saying Wi-Fi/VOIP is BETTER than cellular. Certainly cellular is a better proposition. But Wi-Fi/VOIP could become a very important supplement to cellular that would help drive down costs for EVERYONE. We are already seeing VOIP have an effect on landline costs. Growth is exploding on the business side. Growth will be even faster on the consumer side when 911 location technology is implemented everywhere.
    VoIP has few stronger supporters than yours truly; I have the t-shirt and the cap. However, one does not have to be tethered to a hotspot to have VoIP. One can have VoIP over EDGE (?), EVDO, or UMTS. One does not have to deny the cost of Internet service via Wi-Fi to justify it.

    It is clear that Palm has no intention of putting Wi-Fi in a Treo. Neither of the CDMA carriers wants them to do it.

    But you ought to keep in mind that the cost is in using the indebted land lines. If your VoIP call terminates on a land line, where it originates and how it is connected will not matter much. For example, assume that your call originates on a Skype softphone on your iPaq. Whether you connect to the Internet over Wi-Fi, free or otherwise, or EDGE, EVDO or UMTS, you will have to pay Skype Out if the call terminates on a PSTN number. To the PSTN, Skype Out looks like any other subscriber and must pay the going rate. "There is no such thing as a free lunch."


    Quote Originally Posted by DHart
    I checked yesterday. My current landline phone bill is about $55/month through my local cable company before long distance charges. Switching to AT&T VOIP lowers my bill (with the same services) PLUS all you can eat long distance in the US to about $32/month.
    I pay Vonage $24.95 but I first have to pay my ISP. Yes, every now and then I poach on a Wi-Fi that someone else pays for but I do not kid myself that it is "free."

    Quote Originally Posted by DHart
    Disclaimer: I have no relationship with AT&T as a customer, supplier, or as an employee. I just have read several reviews that say they offer the best cost/services package for landline VOIP right now.
    I have a relationship with Vonage; it is called satisfied customer.
    Last edited by whmurray; 11/04/2005 at 05:43 PM.
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    #26  
    Sprint/Nextel is said to be looking at replacing their entire CDMA network with a Mobile on WiMax network

    Apperently the Goverment wants the spectrum back and is considering granting the new spectrum to Sprint or something like that...read it a few days ago.. will try to find the source if anyone is interested.
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by gex
    Sprint/Nextel is said to be looking at replacing their entire CDMA network with a Mobile on WiMax network
    That WOULD be interesting.
  8.    #28  
    I am a new immigrant of Canada. I think you guys would understanding the feeling of leaving one country that you were living over few decades years. Is it wonderful that my old friend could dial their local phone no. and my phone starts to ring?
    It may be the reason why there are over millions of people using SKYPE everyday.
    Suddenly your friends, relatives seem next to you again. Does it worth to buy a has-skype MS treo and leave Palm OS behind? To me, it worths.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart
    That WOULD be interesting.
    That would be magic.
  10. jeeter's Avatar
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    #30  
    I think there have been plenty of good arguments on both sides of this debate. I personally think coverage is more important than cost. But what I haven't heard anyone talk about is battery life. The beauty and effectiveness of a smartphone is greatly diminished if you can't get a whole day of battery life out of it. I've spent some quality time on some Samsung i730 forums and have repeatedly heard that the WiFi radio sucks a lot more juice than the EV-DO radio. If this holds true in a Treo offering, then free WiFi starts getting expensive. I mean if I have to have access to an electrical outlet to take advantage of Skype via WiFi, then it "costs" more than Skype via EV-DO. I might as well have a laptop and a headset if I need electricity too. Coverage and battery life are very important to me, but neither trump mobility.
    My 2, it's all I can spare
    Treo 270 Treo 600 Treo 700P *** Unmentionable *** Pre {rooted}
  11. #31  
    I am waiting for one of these voip service to offer call forwarding on the fly, then I will use it more. For example, right now Skype can do call forwarding. If you have a SkypeIn account ($30 a year), you can set this number to forward to anywhere. I can set it to forward to a international number, so I can call my own Skype number, and it will forward me to my relative's number in some remote country. However you can only set this with the windows client, and you can't change the forwarding number on the fly.

    If one of this VOIP service allows it, then it would be very useful. Basically you can use any land line, cell phone. And you can bypass wifi, which is always the weakest link in the VOIP call.

    As for calls inside US, I don't worry about it. I get more than enough from the cell carriers as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonylawhk
    I am a new immigrant of Canada. I think you guys would understanding the feeling of leaving one country that you were living over few decades years. Is it wonderful that my old friend could dial their local phone no. and my phone starts to ring?
    It may be the reason why there are over millions of people using SKYPE everyday.
    Suddenly your friends, relatives seem next to you again. Does it worth to buy a has-skype MS treo and leave Palm OS behind? To me, it worths.
    You can do it now with SkypeIn and a regular cellphone, there is no need to spend 500 more for a PDA phone.

    Skype is like Paypal, it has reached critical mass, there is no way any other VOIP service can replace it. Well maybe google, but not for a while.
    Last edited by whatever7; 11/23/2005 at 02:15 PM.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    I am waiting for one of these voip service to offer call forwarding on the fly,......
    I am not sure what you mean by "call forwarding on the fly." Vonage offers call forwarding. It can be provisioned from their "dashboard" and the dashboard can be operated using Treo/Blazer. It also offers 'simulring,' a feature that allows an incoming call to ring on up to five phones (i.e, numbers) at one time. I only give out my home phone number but it rings on my work phone and my Treo.
  13.    #33  
    whatever 7 quote--
    You can do it now with SkypeIn and a regular cellphone, there is no need to spend 500 more for a PDA phone.

    Skype is like Paypal, it has reached critical mass, there is no way any other VOIP service can replace it. Well maybe google, but not for a while.
    -----------

    I have seen what people are writing in SKYPE newsgroup.
    There isn't any Skype router in the market up to now, therefore at home we need to turn on PC all the time if we want our friends call us more easily.
    However, if we have a M$ Treo, all we have to do is plugging the treo ac adapter and connect to our existing home wi-fi system. No any marginal cost or time.
  14. #34  
    any updates on skype usage from actual treo 700w owners?
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by athreya
    any updates on skype usage from actual treo 700w owners?
    Either or both?
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by athreya
    any updates on skype usage from actual treo 700w owners?

    As quoted from the thread below:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=103873

    Quote Originally Posted by athreya
    Wont work smoothly till they launch EVDO Rev A. Later this year because of the difference in uploads and downloads speed there will be latency issues at present.

    confirmed with vzw data

    I think VoIP client like Skype is definitely a killer application. The lack of a Skype client for PalmOS is one of the biggest deficiencies on that platform imo in addition to lack of streaming wma/wmv etc...
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  17. #37  
    and they tell me skype wont work on it without a lot of latency..

    but can some ACTUAL USERS VERIFY PLEASE?
  18. #38  
    A few things to note.

    1. I used SkypeOut from St. Maarten on a 33.6K connection (it was $20 unlimited for the week). It saved a bundle to call the US. Unless the openSourceFlavorX has a an openSourceFlavorXOut feature, it's only going to be useful to less than 1% of the population.

    2. EVDO is only wider coverage in the US. In St. Maarten I would need to use wifi, so while you may be happy with EVDO, in some places a wifi card would pay for itself in just 30 minutes of talk time.

    3. Give me Skype and Slingbox on my Treo with both options.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    A few things to note.

    1. I used SkypeOut from St. Maarten on a 33.6K connection (it was $20 unlimited for the week). It saved a bundle to call the US. Unless the openSourceFlavorX has a an openSourceFlavorXOut feature, it's only going to be useful to less than 1% of the population.

    2. EVDO is only wider coverage in the US. In St. Maarten I would need to use wifi, so while you may be happy with EVDO, in some places a wifi card would pay for itself in just 30 minutes of talk time.

    3. Give me Skype and Slingbox on my Treo with both options.

    Did you not get latency? You used skype on a 700w in st.maarten?
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