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  1. #41  
    But I stilll read all these threads about how Apple would make a better smartphone than Palm without ANY problems from day one and how much better their quality is than Microsoft or Palm. They are not. They botched the iPod battery up from day one and refused to fix it for years screwing their customers. They've had bad products and treated customers badly too. That's all I really want to make people see. I don't hate Apple. I just hate this unfactual holier than thou image all their fans delude themself into painting about them.
    Here you make a good point. You probably should have made it before poking sticks at the Mac-folk.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  2.    #42  
    The only one thing you are constantly crying about is Ipod battery, which was defective in certain series of ipods.
    You are neglecting the fact that Ipod revolutinized the design of MP3 players and is an industry standard.
    Have you looked at Mac mini, imac G5 's , with every new mac computer there is a major advancement in design, which after few years is copied by PC hardware making companies.
    Microsoft is a software giant with the biggest flaw " security", which is inexcusable.
    As far as softwares are concerned, OS X is a major advancement, windows Longhorn will have some features which will be exciting and new , which mac users have on their computers for years.
  3. #43  
    EH... Forget Apple. Just be glad that NOKIA DIDN'T BUY PALMSOURCE!!!

    http://www.palminfocenter.com/commen...ID=8109#112851


    That almost really happenned!
    _________________
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    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

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  4. #44  
    Apple should build their own smartphone/ipod...instead of allowing the itune software to get dilluted into a crappy Motorola.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by BorderHeeler
    Nothing could better sum up my sense of dread than this statement, longterm.

    All of us Mac lovers are hoping Apple will release a mobile computer/phone before our current Treos become obsolete so we can avoid the Windows version.... Unfortunately, Apple seems to be too focused on producing endless iPod "variations" to make this move.

    BH
    True indeed! I don't want to be forced to use windows whereas in addition to resets we also have virusus permeating our mobile lives! Yikes!! A frightening prospect! Once you go mac you never go back, once you go palm you always remain calm!
    R.I.P. to Don Adams (99 WAS KINDA HOT)
  6. #46  
    ^ Oh gawd, viruses - I didn't even think about that (because, as a Mac user, I haven't HAD to think about that). Yuck!!

    Regarding innovation or the lack thereof: I think that Apple innovation is more consistent with Palm's than is Microsoft's. Yes, there were mp3 players before the iPod, but they were dull and merely functional. Design and beauty do matter. iMacs influenced the design of things from autos to housewares. I am sitting here with my 5 year old Mac that is far more attractive than any new (or old) Windows PC. Maybe it is all just repackaging, but at some point the look and feel of a thing transforms it. Obviously people think that about the iPod. I find this consistent with Palm''s design history. What did a Palm Pilot do, really, that couldn't be better done with a laptop? Nothing, except do it in an innovative package. Same with a Treo - just packaging two primary devices into one sleek design. No one ever calls any Microsoft product sleek.

    Would you really rather have a smartphone that looks like a Dell or one that looks like an iMac or iPod?

    I think that Apple also excels in having software that integrates so well as, again, to transform itself into whole new forms of software - new forms of usability (and beauty). When one is talking about a smartphone, which performs so many functions in such a small space, that sort of integrative ability is crucial.

    BH

    Yes, Bye, Max -- Sorry about that, Chief!
  7. crazycray's Avatar
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    Since Bill Gates financially bailed Apple out a number of years when he purchased a chunk of Apple, I think Gates basically dictates to Jobs what niche markets Apple is permitted to have/participate in and Bill agrees to leave them alone in it and continue providing Apple versions of Office and other MS programs required by Apple users. I think the iPod is a perfect example of a lucrative niche market MS has given to Apple and turned a blind eye to. I hardly think Bill would give Jobs the okay to allow Apple to be an OS competitor in the cell phone market considering Microsoft's investment in it.
    archie would have a hay day with this
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by BorderHeeler
    All of us Mac lovers are hoping Apple will release a mobile computer/phone before our current Treos become obsolete so we can avoid the Windows version.... Unfortunately, Apple seems to be too focused on producing endless iPod "variations" to make this move.

    BH
    Well, there's hope! Here's a quote from AppleInsider, attributed to Motorola's Ed Zander:

    'Not to be denied another headline, Zander was quick to add: "And we know that they are going to build a smart phone--it's only a matter of time."'

    I think an Apple-branded smartphone is in the future, but exactly when is another matter. I wouldn't be surprised to see it emerge in the next year; the market is primed for such a device, especially if it has the style and design that has emerged with the iPod, the Mac Mini, and the latest iMac line. While I'd love to stay with Palm products, I'd jump ship immediately if the device was as well-conceived as the iPods are. BTW, I was in the Apple Store earlier today and finally saw a Nano in person... it's amazing to see this tiny wafer in person. It was even smaller than I expected it to be. They're going to sell a ton of these this holiday season.

    Bob
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    EH... Forget Apple. Just be glad that NOKIA DIDN'T BUY PALMSOURCE!!!

    http://www.palminfocenter.com/commen...ID=8109#112851


    That almost really happenned!
    Man, that's scary stuff - Jason & Freddy scary. Just think how open Nokia would have been to licensing the Palm OS for cell phones. Gee, let me think about that one for a while.........
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    ...Apple didn't develop OS X either.
    You're wrong again. NextOS never had anything resembling the GUI that OSX has. Next didn't invent Unix either... I suppose, to your way of thinking (?), that unless Apple invents another way of describing ones and zeros, then anything they do is either theft or derivative... you mean, like M$ does?

    By the way, here is the TRUE history of NextStep's OS:

    NEXTSTEP was based on Mach 2.5 and 4.3BSD, and had an advanced GUI system based on Postscript. It used Objective-C as its native programming language, and included the NeXT Interface Builder.

    Apple acquired NeXT in February, 1997, for $427 million. But wait, I thought they were on the borderline of being broke? hmm...


    Does Apple do anything original or innovative?
    You should get out more often and read what Apple's been up to lately; perhaps you'd then realize that not only have they been innovative, but they've totally captured a worldwide market in MP3 players (around 80%), they've continued to develop a rock-solid OS that HAS SHIPPED, and soon I suspect they'll rock the smartphone market with their own version.
  11. #51  
    I agree with you Bob-C. IF it wasn't for Uncle Bill Apple would be history. Again, it's all about money. Uncle Bill will leave them alone because he has stock in them so when apple make money Uncle Bill make money. He is not for the 11th year richest man in the world for nothing.

    Bob-C no point argeeing with these M$ hater, eh.
  12.    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybr
    I agree with you Bob-C. IF it wasn't for Uncle Bill Apple would be history. Again, it's all about money. Uncle Bill will leave them alone because he has stock in them so when apple make money Uncle Bill make money. He is not for the 11th year richest man in the world for nothing.

    Bob-C no point argeeing with these M$ hater, eh.

    What you all fail to understand is the fact that :

    Wise investment does not mean donation

    Please correct your misconceptions !!
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybr
    Uncle Bill will leave them alone because he has stock in them so when apple make money Uncle Bill make money.
    Wrong; Gates sold his stock.
  14. #54  
    Another Apple vs. MS tirade.

    Hayzeus Effin Kristo, these get old.

    Apple is a trendy (in the positive sense) hardware maker. I actually think the iTunes software is the real gem, not so much the iPod itself. The iTunes Store doesn't hurt either.

    Their era was 1984-94, but lost the PC market due to poor vision, sticking it to their customers and ISVs, capitalism/competition.

    I actually think Apple's foray into the PDA/smartphone market will be their own OS. Obviously, it can't be PPC, POS is a POS, and Symbian is too fringe.

    I wonder how it will fare in the market....I think it was smart to stick Moto with the crappy ROKR so they could learn the market without risking much.

    Oh well, we will see. Doesn't matter much, as Windows Treo are going to sell like hotcakes compared to POS.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    Another Apple vs. MS tirade.
    Hayzeus Effin Kristo, these get old.
    And yet I let myself get sucked into another one... sigh...

    I actually think Apple's foray into the PDA/smartphone market will be their own OS. Obviously, it can't be PPC, POS is a POS, and Symbian is too fringe.
    I agree; I think they'll come up with some sort of device that is a phone/iPod/smartphone combination that'll use their own software. Not sure how it'll fare against the Palm though, which is why I wonder if they'll ever actually do it.

    As much as I am not a M$ fan, I have to agree that WM will sell a lot of Treos for Palm. I think it's an excellent move for Palm, so long as they have their own OS to use for their other devices and to keep them from becoming merely a hardware provider.

    I wonder how it will fare in the market....I think it was smart to stick Moto with the crappy ROKR so they could learn the market without risking much.
    Yes, the ROKR certainly has taken a bashing in the press; apparently it wasn't ready for market, judging from all the complaints.

    I'm beginning to change my opinion on POS going away; now, from everything I'm reading, I'm beginning to believe that there will be another POS soon, and that it will be very competitive with WM, but aimed at the consumer market rather than the business market...

    But so far as the Mac/PC debate... I just like stirring the fire sometimes, just out of boredom!
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    The site of Steve Jobs at Apple's annual fan gathering announcing the Bill Gates-Apple bail out/investment, with Bill hovering in back of Steve on what must have looked like an IMAX screen to the booing Apple fans. The look on Steve Jobs face as he announced that this marked the end of competition between Apple and Microsoft and began an age of cooperation. The sound of Apple-heads yelling, "Sell out!", at Steve as he made the announcement.

    You sound like a revisionist history Communist stating that the US didn't win the Cold War and that the Soviet Union just decided to restructure on their own.

    The fact is that Bill pumped money into Apple so that it wouldn't go belly up because otherwise he would have had no one to point to as a competitor for the DOJ monopoly suit. Otherwise, Apple would've went bankrupt. So they accepted the niche market Bill has carved them out and stay out of Microsoft's way for the much larger corporate mainstream market.
    Youre totally misrepresenting the situation. Apple allowed M$ to buy a portion of non-voting stock. This deal also included the prevision that M$ would make Office for the Mac for a number of years. In return Apple agreed to drop a boatload of patent infringement lawsuits. M$ eventually sold his stock and made a killing on it (calling it a "bail out" makes it seem like charity, it was an investment for M$), M$ is no longer obligated to produce Office for the Mac but they do because its so profitable. Not sure who's being more revisionist with their history here, but what I have stated above are facts. It is true that Apple wasnt doing so hot at the time, but they werent in dire straits either, there was little to no chance that Apple would have gone bankrupt. Oh, and the investment from M$ gave them absolutly zero control over the direction Apple took their company, and M$ certainly has no control over them now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    One point I forgot. Apple LOST the OS copycat suit. The courts ruled that Apple could not sue for what it called the, "Look and feel", of their OS.
    That was a single suit, in the deal we are all speaking of M$ was fighting (and losing) more than a dozen copyright infringement suits brought by Apple.

    Ya know, the OS Apple ripped off from Xerox!
    Actually Xerox said they had no interest in developing a commercial product out of the windowed interface and mouse. It wasn’t ripped off.

    The money Bill invested was to keep Apple afloat for the DOJ case.
    While this may have played a small role, it certainly wasn’t a deciding factor. Even with Apple around, do you think the prosecution in that case was going to ignore the investment M$ made? Do you think they weren’t going to say “M$ only did that to keep their necks off the chopping block in this case.” Do you think that having a competitor with 3% market share at the time was really going to make for a strong case? There were many motivations for the Apple M$ deal, and the anti-trust suit was only a small player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    And as far as Apple's financial stability, I do recall there was a point where they hadn't made a profit for like two years, fired their CEO, laid a bunch of people off, and begged Jobs to come back and save them.
    Odd how you can recall events that never happened. Apple never begged Steve to come back. Apple was looking for an OS to incorporate portions of into their own OS. They shopped around at Be, NeXT and a couple others. They went with NeXT and got Jobs in the process.

    That was when Bill helped out. Do you seriously think Jobs would've put himself through the humiliation of having Gates at Apple's big event during the announcement if MS had been somehow FORCED to pay the money?
    Are you kidding? Humiliation? Where do you get this? If anything it was Gates who was humiliated, he was investing money in his rivals company! Do you see Ford buying Chevy stock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    What happened to Bill's ownership in Apple? Did he sell it at some outrageous price to AppleHeads who just wanted him out?
    He sold it on the open market at the going rate. Do you know how the stock market works?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    HAHAHA!!!! This is so funny. I was absolutely postive Apple was nearly bankrupt in 1997. So after I read this statement I did a few searches on Yahoo and quickly found another guy on the Apple Kool Aid make the same smug argument about how his beloved Apple was NEVER in financial trouble. Two posts later an Apple employee smacks him right down:

    Re: Shawn on Near Bankrupt
    By Marc Driftmeyer (IP: ---.nas10.spokane1.wa.us.da.qwest.net) - Posted on 2005-06-27 03:47:37
    Shawn wrote:

    Nearly bankrupt in 1997? Hardly. Apple reported $7 billion in revenue that year. I think it's wild speculation to say they were "nearly bankrupt". Not doing well, or operating at a loss might have been accurate, but "nearly bankrupt" is untruthful.


    We, at Apple had 3 months left of working capital to keep the doors open.

    Yes we were on the brink of bankrupt, which was ****ing annoying for us who only became Apple employees after the NeXT Merger and because of this NeXT's own IPO was obvious canceled.
    Neither one of those people have a clue about what theyre talking about. The “Apple death watch” was under way for the entire time I was an undergrad student. In reality, Apple was never that close to bankruptcy, there is no evidence to prove that they were. Go check out their SEC filings, I know I have. If you can find something in there that suggest they were in the kind of trouble you say they were let me know.

    And as far as Apple's innovation goes.... I had already known that Jobs had ripped Xerox off for the original
    Again, that’s false.

    What I didn't know is that Apple didn't develop OS X either. They merged with another company named NeXT whose NeXTSTEPX OS was renamed OS X after Jobs and crew tweaked it and slapped an Apple logo on the chassis. Does Apple do anything original or innovative?
    Guess what, youre wrong twice here. First, Jobs did develop NeXT Step, he founded their company. Secondly, they used some portions of that OS in OSX, but OSX was built mostly from scratch. Most of the graphical portion of the OS is entirely new. And im not just talking about using different icons, etc. The entire graphics engine. I’d go into the way this OS is layered, what is new, what isn’t, but this info is readily available other places.
    iPhone in the Washington DC area.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybr
    I agree with you Bob-C. IF it wasn't for Uncle Bill Apple would be history. Again, it's all about money. Uncle Bill will leave them alone because he has stock in them so when apple make money Uncle Bill make money. He is not for the 11th year richest man in the world for nothing.

    Bob-C no point argeeing with these M$ hater, eh.
    Thank you. I'm not going insane. I downloaded that keynote speech from '97 and it had me remembering the good 'ol Mac days. Almost made me want to buy one.

    I don't what the big deal is about admitting Apple was about bankrupt. The beginning of that keynote video actually alludes to how badly Apple was doing at the time, and Steve's analysis of the speech is built around it in I can save this company message. Having been that close to bankruptcy is what makes it that much more of triumphant for Jobs and Apple. Especially for Jobs.

    The scenario of that moment in time is that Apple had forced Jobs out several years earlier, those people ran the company into the ground, and when it was about to go under, they begged him to come back and save the company because they knew he was the ONLY person in the world that had the credibility to restore faith in the company.

    So in this speech he gives, he mentions that he fired all but 2 board members. Well, he said they resigned but you know.. How happy must that moment have been for him? He arranges a financial bail out from Bill and makes it a win-win for everybody by resolving patent cases, making MS's stock non-voting, making IE the Mac's default browser, and getting Bill to promise to keep making Office for the next five years. In the speech, as he introduces MS and Bill via satellite as Apple's new partners financial investors/partners he gets booed at first. But as he and Bill go through all the details, by the end of the speech the crowd is going wild for both of them. Only Steve could pull that off.

    By the way, I looked through a MAC OS X programming API guide. It mentions that the reason object classifications throughout the OS are classified as NS is because of a thowback to the NextStepX OS which much of OS X was built off of. And it doesn't take a programmer's reference guide to figure out that the name OS X is anagram of the Next name...

    NextStepX OS -> OS X
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  18. #58  
    And it doesn't take a programmer's reference guide to figure out that the name OS X is anagram of the Next name...

    NextStepX OS -> OS X
    hahaha. with logic and iron clad info like that who can argue? *snicker*
    iPhone in the Washington DC area.
  19. #59  
    Thank you. I'm not going insane. I downloaded that keynote speech from '97 and it had me remembering the good 'ol Mac days. Almost made me want to buy one... blah, blah,blah...
    You're hopeless. Posting the same misinformation doesn't make it any less false. Are you even bothering to read the detailed, factual refutations of your posts?
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
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