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  1.    #1  
    Palm to Unveil Handheld With Microsoft Software

    By PUI-WING TAM
    Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
    September 23, 2005 4:27 p.m.

    Palm Inc. may be ready to embrace its onetime nemesis, Microsoft Corp.

    The handheld computer maker is planning on Monday to announce a new version of its Treo smartphone that runs Microsoft software, a person familiar with the matter said. Up to now, the Treo has exclusively used Palm`s operating system. Verizon Wireless is expected to offer the new phone.

    A Palm spokeswoman declined comment, as did spokesmen for Microsoft and Verizon Wireless. The companies sent out an advisory today about a joint press conference for Monday.

    A partnership between Palm and Microsoft over the new product could end a long-running rivalry between the two companies. Earlier this decade, Palm, of Sunnyvale, Calif. and Microsoft jousted to gain the leading edge in the hand-held software market.

    Palm had its own software, dubbed the Palm operating system, which was used inside its Palm handheld computers and later its Treo smartphones. The company also licensed the software to others, such as Sony Corp. Palm's software competed with Microsoft's software for mobile devices, which is now known as Windows Mobile.

    Palm spun off its software division as an independent company, PalmSource Inc., in 2003. PalmSource has since struggled, especially when Sony all but stopped making hand-held computers. PalmSource has since tried to broaden its software and to license its products to mobile phone makers, but hasn't signed up many large phone makers. Its biggest licensee today remains Palm. PalmSource's chief executive, David Nagel, resigned this year; no permanent successor was named. Then earlier this month, PalmSource announced it was being acquired by Japanese company Access Co. for slightly more than $320 million.

    Meanwhile, Microsoft has continued honing its mobile software and has succeeded in signing up a variety of mobile phone makers to license the software. During the third quarter last year, more handheld devices using Microsoft's Windows software were shipped, exceeding the number that uses PalmSource software, according to research firm Gartner Inc.

    The collaboration with the Redmond, Wash., software giant may not mean that Palm will stop using software from PalmSource. In a statement earlier this month when PalmSource was sold to Access, Palm CEO Ed Colligan said the company "looks forward to continuing our strong working relationship to advance the Palm operating system platform."

    Palm on Thursday reported its fiscal first-quarter earnings dropped 7% to $18.2 million, or 35 cents a share, down from $19.6 million, or 38 cents a share, last year for the quarter ended Sept. 2. The company also forecast revenue in the current quarter of $435 million to $440 million, below analyst expectations.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve340
    Palm to Unveil Handheld With Microsoft Software

    By PUI-WING TAM
    Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
    September 23, 2005 4:27 p.m.
    ...

    The collaboration with the Redmond, Wash., software giant may not mean that Palm will stop using software from PalmSource. In a statement earlier this month when PalmSource was sold to Access, Palm CEO Ed Colligan said the company "looks forward to continuing our strong working relationship to advance the Palm operating system platform."

    ...
    Swell. I'll file that one right up there with:

    "The checks in the mail."

    "He's got a great personality."

    "Look on the bright side..."
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  3. #3  
    I understand your view that PalmOS will eventually go away, but Palm Inc with a billion dollars in revenue from PalmOS products has every reason to sustain that side of the business as long as possible.

    And I think the community of Palm users and developers is as deep and passionate as the Apple base. They're not going to give up to Microsoft so easily. (I certainly will, but they won't.)
  4. #4  
    Wrong samkim.

    They can barely roll out incremental product improvements on one platform - there's no way they can survive on two (unless Uncle Bill's going to announce he bought Palm and Verizon in the Monday morning press conference).
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  5. #5  
    All together now "This is the end, Beautiful friend
    This is the end, My only friend, the end..." To me its odd....its like Coke taking over Pepsi, McDonalds taking out Burger King. Just really weird. Well I said it once and I'll say it again. McDonalds, Disney, Microsoft, Walmart=The Four Horsemen...the end is near.

    Questions do you think this whole thing has anything to do with the lawsuit? I mean Billy boy can easily bail them out. Thus showing that there is a reason to be confident in a WM version of the Treo? Just a thought...not that WM is actually any greater than Palm.
    Last edited by TheBigBadWolf; 09/25/2005 at 01:53 AM.
  6. #6  
    By spending 320 million for PalmSource, Access Co will be highly motivated to keep the Palm os updates, and new Treos on partnership with Palm, moving off of the assembly line.
    Palm V-->Visor Deluxe-->Visor Prism-->Visorphone-->Treo 180-->Treo 600-->Treo 650 on Sprint-->Treo 700p-->Centro-->Diamond-->Pre-->HTC EVO 4g???!
  7. #7  
    What exactly did I say that was wrong?

    You've been repeating this Palm Is Dead mantra so many times without anyone challenging you that you're now just tossing about absurd statements.

    "They can barely roll out incremental product improvements on one platform"

    I don't know what the hell that means... Are you saying they can't launch new products and remain profitable? They can and do. Their sales are growing. The Treo brand is hot. And they are profitable.

    "there's no way they can survive on two"

    Again, they've been very successful running their business so far...
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigBadWolf
    Questions do you think this whole thing has anything to do with the lawsuit? I mean Billy boy can easily bail them out. Thus showing that there is a reason to be confident in a WM version of the Treo? Just a thought...not that WM is actually any greater than Palm.
    I'm sure this was in the works loooong before that lawsuit came about.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigBadWolf
    All together now "This is the end, Beautiful friend
    This is the end, My only friend, the end..." To me its odd....its like Coke taking over Pepsi, McDonalds taking out Burger King. Just really weird. Well I said it once and I'll say it again. McDonalds, Disney, Microsoft, TimeWarner=The Four Horsemen...the end is near.

    Questions do you think this whole thing has anything to do with the lawsuit? I mean Billy boy can easily bail them out. Thus showing that there is a reason to be confident in a WM version of the Treo? Just a thought...not that WM is actually any greater than Palm.
    How did you not include Wal-Mart???
    "...you're the man now dawg!!!" - William Forrestor
  10. #10  
    Sorry to say it's all about money. Palm is losing money so they will need to have M$ to bail them out. Just look at Palm stocks it moves down more than up. Believe me it's all about making the the shareholder happy.
  11. #11  
    All I can say is, I'm glad I got a treo before they crippled it with microturd software. I wonder how long it will take to boot up when you turn it on with windoze/wince running on it? How many hours between reboots? Want to know what a Blue Screen of Death looks like on a cellphone? As the ad says, You Will!

    And regarding the other thread about whether this means they'll stop supporting palmOS - be real. You can bet there's a hidden clause to the deal saying that palmOS is gone in a year or three years tops. Why else would MS bother signing with Palm? There are lots of other hardware platforms and MS is already in them. The only reason to go after Treo is to eliminate the remaining competition in software.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybr
    Sorry to say it's all about money. Palm is losing money so they will need to have M$ to bail them out. Just look at Palm stocks it moves down more than up. Believe me it's all about making the the shareholder happy.
    Palm is NOT losing money! They are profitable and growing very rapidly. The stock is volatile because there is a lot of uncertainty over its future. That is, in 3 years it could be 20 times its current size, or it could be dead; probably somewhere in between.

    This move is all about seizing an opportunity to dominate the growing smartphone market by offering customers a choice.
  13. #13  
    Steve340 - You ever see that "order reprints" link at the bottom of every WSJ.com page? I don't think they enjoy their articles posted to public message boards without authorization...
  14. #14  
    ..... yeah. posting copywrited material isn's usually a good thing .... tough I'm sure those who don't orfer the journal appreciated!
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    What exactly did I say that was wrong?

    You've been repeating this Palm Is Dead mantra so many times without anyone challenging you that you're now just tossing about absurd statements.

    "They can barely roll out incremental product improvements on one platform"

    I don't know what the hell that means... Are you saying they can't launch new products and remain profitable? They can and do. Their sales are growing. The Treo brand is hot. And they are profitable.

    "there's no way they can survive on two"

    Again, they've been very successful running their business so far...
    No intention to offend, and I'll explain myself:

    Incremental - yes, Treo 600 was big improvement over Treo 300, but the 650 and numerous patches still only amount to baby steps (32mb memory?). And look as the rest of the Palm (Tungsten & Zire) lines. Stuck in first gear since they switched from the slider format to the flat screen slates. Bluetooth (sometimes), WiFi (sometimes), more memory (sometimes), better cameras (kind of). Where is the team that brought us the Palm Vx?

    As for the disappearing act, I've explained that in detail previously. They are not well enough heeled to dual track development on two separate platforms. The two year lag time in developing ANY Cobalt based PDA (smartphone or otherwise) shows that Cobalt is a dead end (they may pull a rabbit out of the hat on that one, but even Palmsource has shown it's running away to BeOS/Linux/whatever for the next generation). It's tough enough developing on a known platform - what will happen when Palmsource throws out a totally new OS to chew on.

    So, my overstated opinion is the end of Palm as we know it. At least the Treo division, on WM5, will have appeal to a Dell or maybe even HP. You tell me where either the Tungsten or Zire are SUPERIOR to the latest Dell and HP PDA offerings?
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  16. #16  
    No symbian or Linux either...so what do we do with our 650's now? I know the carriers will still continue to carry the 650 but for how long? I mean everything that we do for the 650 will be obsolete won't it? Forget it then...I'm getting rid of my 650's. Theres no point.
  17. #17  
    <moved>
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    No intention to offend, and I'll explain myself:

    Incremental - yes, Treo 600 was big improvement over Treo 300, but the 650 and numerous patches still only amount to baby steps (32mb memory?). And look as the rest of the Palm (Tungsten & Zire) lines. Stuck in first gear since they switched from the slider format to the flat screen slates. Bluetooth (sometimes), WiFi (sometimes), more memory (sometimes), better cameras (kind of). Where is the team that brought us the Palm Vx?

    As for the disappearing act, I've explained that in detail previously. They are not well enough heeled to dual track development on two separate platforms. The two year lag time in developing ANY Cobalt based PDA (smartphone or otherwise) shows that Cobalt is a dead end (they may pull a rabbit out of the hat on that one, but even Palmsource has shown it's running away to BeOS/Linux/whatever for the next generation). It's tough enough developing on a known platform - what will happen when Palmsource throws out a totally new OS to chew on.

    So, my overstated opinion is the end of Palm as we know it. At least the Treo division, on WM5, will have appeal to a Dell or maybe even HP. You tell me where either the Tungsten or Zire are SUPERIOR to the latest Dell and HP PDA offerings?
    You seem to measure a company's capabilities by its ability to create products that appeal to you.

    I think it's more important to see that the company knows how to grow profitably. Palm has proven that they know what the market wants with the 650. Just look at their sales growth and get back to me.

    Cobalt? I'm not privy to all the details behind their decision to not launch a device on Cobalt, and it sounds like you aren't either.

    Their PDA line? We'll know more later today and tomorrow what they have planned, but I'd be disappointed in them if they spent too much time on a segment that is going nowhere. There's a good reason why so many companies have left the PDA business.

    Your "PalmOS is Dead" assertion is a guess. I mean no offense, but it's getting tiresome reading this same guess repeated in every single thread. It's certainly possible that in a few years you turn out to be correct, but the outcome will depend on a lot of factors that are still unknown and which you prefer to ignore, such as Palm's as yet unannounced product roadmap, the unannounced specs and pricing of the "700w", Palm's enterprise marketing strategy, the long-term reaction of the Palm development community, PalmSource/Access's as yet unannounced development strategy, LG's PalmOS product line, the undetermined role of current non-players in the smartphone market such as Dell and IBM, the relative market success of feature-rich competitive products, et al.
  19. #20  
    Palm OS5 is not that advanced. No multithreading, its buggy (My T5 crashes like anything).

    You try to locate tools to help you for development on Palm.... what commercial options do you really get? Even CodeWarrior people stopped working on Palm.... they are no longer doing any development for Palm environment.... what you get is old and is only available through their dealers. Also Palm Source is purchased by a Japanese company, meaning Palm OS is no longer near and dear to Palm (that is why it changed its name back to Palm from Palm One)

    So currently WM5 is a better platform, only question is are they going to be like HP adding native WM5 to their Treo hardware or something really different… like the Mac. If like HP then the product is doomed. So I think there will be some value addition… like there can be a Palm layer.

    They had previously announced that they will be shipping a Palm 68K layer for Linux based devices like Motorolla PDAs and Smart phones (that also runs on ARM). So if they can port for Linux then they can also port it to for WM5.

    I am speculating if they port (or already done/doing) their 68K ARM layer to WM5 then...
    We can run Palm apps also on the new device so PPC or Palm you have all the choice. Java layer is already present. This may lead to higher price of the device as 2 OS will eventually get licensed.

    And if this is true then it becomes a killer!!!!

    You will get Palm+Windows+Java

    Currently their actual rivals are not Microsoft.
    Blackberry and (Nokia) Symbian OS is the actual competition that has a much faster growing base. So if PalmWin becomes a reality then …. I do not know what will happen to Symbian and Blackberry. (Linux will survive in any case)



    Akhilesh Singh
    http://akhilesh.zapto.org

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