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  1. #141  
    Windows Mobile (or the various iterations thereof) is third out of three operating systems for smartphones. Lastly, the scalbility of the messaging pack is in serious question at this point. The load on the Exchange server with continuous synching remains to be seen, but with large deployments, you are looking at distributed Exchange servers, so there is the potential for additional hardware requirements. Add in security questions, and with virtually no tools for deploying, securing, managing, troubleshooting and upgrading mobile devices once they are deployed, SP2 will not be an enterprise solution upon release. Add to that the fact there isn't an enterprise IT manager in the world that implements the first release of a Service Pack before the first few patches come out. There will be guinea pigs, but I think people are overestimating the initial acceptance rate.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy
    Windows Mobile (or the various iterations thereof) is third out of three operating systems for smartphones. Lastly, the scalbility of the messaging pack is in serious question at this point. The load on the Exchange server with continuous synching remains to be seen, but with large deployments, you are looking at distributed Exchange servers, so there is the potential for additional hardware requirements. Add in security questions, and with virtually no tools for deploying, securing, managing, troubleshooting and upgrading mobile devices once they are deployed, SP2 will not be an enterprise solution upon release. Add to that the fact there isn't an enterprise IT manager in the world that implements the first release of a Service Pack before the first few patches come out. There will be guinea pigs, but I think people are overestimating the initial acceptance rate.
    And this is because....you're a Goodlink proponent?
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    And this is because....you're a Goodlink proponent?
    Not just me:

    http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?doc_cd=129022

    http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?doc_cd=128197

    http://blogs.conchango.com/neilchapman/
  4. #144  
    It will play of over the next 2 years probably. Its almost guaranteed however that MS will win the SMB market. Huge companies may take a bit longer however.

    Surur
  5. #145  
    Palm's association with Windows Mobile bothers me. I fear that Microsoft will gobble Palm up. Over the years I have owned all kinds of gadgets based upon all three of the major systems - Palm, Symbian, Pocket PC. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, but I have come to the conclusion that Palm is best by a very significant margin. I currently use a Treo 650. I have replaced the native PIM with Dataviz's Beyond Contacts, and I have loaded up Documents To Go. For me, this is about as perfect as you can get in the palm of your hand. Beyond Contacts provides the cleanest and most user-friendly PIM, perfectly synchronisable with Outlook, and it overcomes the native PIM's fifteen category limit, which is a pain when you want to use Tasks to manage a caseload. The Symbian PIM is almost as clean, but the synchronization is clunky and not always reliable. The Pocket PC PIM, even when replaced by the excellent Pocket Informant, is cluttered by contrast. DTG provides an excellent word processor for the Palm System. SoftMaker's TextMaker does something similar for Pocket PC. There is no comparable word processor for non UIQ Symbian gizmos, which is a serious hole in the system. The only thing about Pocket PC that really appeals to me is its continuous synchronization.

    In general, Palm + Beyond Contacts + Documents to Go + Avantgo = the Best You Can Get. As to Palm's relationship with Microsoft - if you give the Devil a lift he will end up driving your car!

    Guy Mitchell
  6. Cartman's Avatar
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    #146  
    Key mobility enhancements in SP2:

    New seamless Direct Push Technology e-mail experience. No longer is there a reliance on short message service (SMS) to notify and ensure the device automatically retrieves new e-mail from your Exchange server. SP2 will use an HTTP connection, maintained by the device, to push new e-mail, calendar, contact, and task notifications to the device.

    Additional data compression translating to a faster experience when sending and receiving messages and reduced synch times.

    Additional Outlook properties, including support for Task synchronization and pictures in Contacts. In addition, you can now look up people by using the Global Address List (GAL) over the air.

    Greater control and security, including:

    Policy setting. Force a password to unlock a device.

    Local wipe. Reset the password after x number of incorrect logon attempts.

    Remote wipe. Reset remote devices over the Web.


    Such policies help to ensure corporate data or applications are not compromised when devices are lost or get into the wrong hands.

    New optional support for certificate-based authentication to eliminate the need to store corporate credentials on a device.

    Added support for Secure/Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (S/MIME) to sign and encrypt messages coming to and from mobile devices.


    For details about the other mobility features in Exchange Server 2003, see the Mobility in Exchange Server 2003 page.

    Most mobile e-mail improvements require that your device run the Windows Mobile 5.0 Messaging and Security Feature Pack, which will be available at or near the time that SP2 is released. Some features such as support for Tasks and support for pictures in Contacts will not require the feature pack. If you have Microsoft Windows Media Player installed, you can see the Messaging and Security Feature Pack in action:


    View video at 300 kilobits per second


    To see how the "heartbeat" of Direct Push Technology keeps your mobile device up to date, view screenshots of the GAL Lookup and of other features, and more, register on the Microsoft Events site to watch the Secure and Scalable Messaging with Windows Mobile 5.0 webcast.

    Licensees of the Exchange ActiveSync protocol (such as palmOne, Motorola, Nokia, Symbian) can take advantage of these improvements through updates to their messaging applications or devices. The roadmap for those devices is owned and managed by the licensee.
  7. #147  
    Bill Gates leart along time ago that owning the software and the OS are the key to success. Rather than get caught up in the hardware battle the focus has been on the OS. The thing that made Palm different from other handhelds and smartphones was the OS. This is what made them a competitor against microsoft. Palm has not been the best hardware developer for quite some time now, this has been shown by the lack and slow response of Palm to add technologies such as bluetooth and wifi to handhelds and smartphones. By ageeing to support the Microsoft opperating system palm has put them self in the same league as other Microsoft smartphone developing companies. They now offer nothing different in terms of an OS than HP, Dell ect. and we already know that they are behind in hardware integration. How long have other Windows mobile smartphones had wifi? A long time. The new windows mobile treo won't even support it outside of an SD card. What a joke. Palm may see some short term profits, but soon will be eaten up by bigger more capable hardware developers. Bill Gates is laughing, he has just turned one of his biggest competitors in the smartphone market into a buyer.
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by gex
    Key mobility enhancements in SP2:

    New seamless Direct Push Technology e-mail experience. No longer is there a reliance on short message service (SMS) to notify and ensure the device automatically retrieves new e-mail from your Exchange server. SP2 will use an HTTP connection, maintained by the device, to push new e-mail, calendar, contact, and task notifications to the device.
    More than anything, how is a device activated connection a 'push' solution? The device retrieves email. This is pull.

    Ever tried to make a phone call on a CDMA network with a data connection open? You can't. Secondly, one of the biggest hits on WM devices is the battery life. With the device driving the connection, will be even worse, I would imagine, though I have heard they have improved power consumption with WM5.

    All the other features you have presented are moot as MSFT is infamous for announcing features and then them not being there in the first release. Not saying that will be the case here, but their history has shown that they are excellent at hype and 'powerpointware'.
  9. Cartman's Avatar
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    #149  
    More than anything, how is a device activated connection a 'push' solution? The device retrieves email. This is pull.
    I guess they can get away with it since the device is just responsible for maintaining a data connection while Exchange is pushing any changes as they occur.

    In practice you will see changes to your device (new emails, etc) faster then they are seen in Outlook on your desktop.

    Also...a side benefit is that this method works regardless of your connection menthod. In other words if you turn off your phone radio and only use WiFi it works the same.
    Ever tried to make a phone call on a CDMA network with a data connection open? You can't. Secondly, one of the biggest hits on WM devices is the battery life. With the device driving the connection, will be even worse
    The device will stay in dormant mode (always open data connection) when its not in an active data session. When you need to use the phone you just dial...no need to end the data session. It then goes back to a dormant mode data connection. While in dormant mode battery life is not greatly impacted and is actually much(very much) better than their old SMS method.
    All the other features you have presented are moot as MSFT is infamous for announcing features and then them not being there in the first release.
    its all there and working as advertised. There is a customer preview available for download to use in trials.

    I will look for a link that explains the technical aspects of their push method in a little more detail.
  10. Cartman's Avatar
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    #150  
    OK, here ya go.. more info than you ever wanted to know about Exchange SP2's Direct Push...this is from the Microsoft Exchange Team Blog so no marketing fluff and its a bit wordy...posted back in June 2005:

    The Design of Exchange Direct Push in Exchange 2003 SP2

    Here is some stuff on remote wipe and security enforcement:

    Exchange 2003 Service Pack 2 (SP2) Remote Wipe functionality

    Enforcing security settings on mobile devices with Exchange 2003 SP2
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by gex
    I guess they can get away with it since the device is just responsible for maintaining a data connection while Exchange is pushing any changes as they occur.

    No, the device is getting the messages from Exchange, per MSFT's own documentation:

    "The device issues an HTTP request to Exchange, which asks Exchange to report any changes that occur in the mailbox of the requesting user within a specified time limit."

    "Finally, the client-initiated nature of HTTP makes the device ultimately responsible for connectivity with Exchange..."

    Hence, pull, not push. In my mind, push is when the server pushes out the information when it occurs, not when the device asks it to.
    [quote]

    The device will stay in dormant mode (always open data connection) when its not in an active data session. When you need to use the phone you just dial...no need to end the data session. It then goes back to a dormant mode data connection. While in dormant mode battery life is not greatly impacted and is actually much(very much) better than their old SMS method.
    I understand how the technology works. My point is that previous WM devices have a horrible reputation as it relates to battery life without the extra draw down from the device activating and deactivating constantly. Windows is a battery hog and adding this additional feature will have an impact on an already low (compared to Palm devices) battery life. From one of your links:

    "If the device ever drifts out of coverage, it will enter a re-try loop and connect as soon as it is able. The network resilience logic of the device can also be triggered on the timeout limit having elapsed before a response from the server is received."

    What is this time limit? If it is in a loop, there is going to be battery implications.

    its all there and working as advertised. There is a customer preview available for download to use in trials.
    Actually, it isn't:

    "The remote wipe tool will ship as part of WebRelease which should be available in October/November time frame."
    http://blogs.technet.com/exchange/ar...07/407416.aspx


    Have you seen feedback from people using the messaging features in SP2? I have looked and haven't been able to find anything and thought there many be NDA issues involved. Being that WM5 devices have only been available for a short time, I would be extremely interested to hear what people are saying.
    Last edited by GoodGuy; 10/12/2005 at 12:23 AM.
  12. Cartman's Avatar
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    #152  
    "The device issues an HTTP request to Exchange, which asks Exchange to report any changes that occur in the mailbox of the requesting user within a specified time limit."

    "Finally, the client-initiated nature of HTTP makes the device ultimately responsible for connectivity with Exchange..."

    Hence, pull, not push. In my mind, push is when the server pushes out the information when it occurs, not when the device asks it to.
    I think that happens during the initial connection to Exchange.. then Exchange pushes all changes to a connected device as long as the connection is there (dormant)...at least thats what I gathered from the link...in any regaurd the changes (new emails, etc.) get to the device a second or two before they reach destop Outlook. I think people will be pleased with its performance.
    My point is that previous WM devices have a horrible reputation as it relates to battery life
    WM5 does a lot to increase battery life...also battery life is better with the new method of AUTD since the old SMS message used to fully wake up the device in WM2003SE every time it received an SMS...we will have to see on this.

    "The remote wipe tool will ship as part of WebRelease which should be available in October/November time frame."
    http://blogs.technet.com/exchange/ar...07/407416.aspx
    Whoops, thought they put that in the customer preview.
    Have you seen feedback from people using the messaging features in SP2? I have looked and haven't been able to find anything and thought there many be NDA issues involved. Being that WM5 devices have only been available for a short time, I would be extremely interested to hear what people are saying.
    Yes... It has been in use for almost 6 months now under NDA. They are looking for people to put Exchange 12 into production enviroments if anyone is interested
  13. #153  
    This has gotten off-topic pretty heavily, so I will just leave it be until a thread hits talking about the messaging features in SP2.
  14. #154  
    Keep going (or start a new thread) I'm enjoying this discussion. As a Blackberry, Treo, and WM user (over the past few years), I'm interested in understanding why auto-pull is better than auto-push (or vice versa). In either case, it seems to me email shows up in my inbox at regular intervals (like my desktop).
  15. #155  
    I find it very telling that two years after the initial announcement of BlackBerry Connect on the Treo, that RIM finally announces a release time for the Treo 650 just weeks after seeing the Windows Mobile Treo. They see the writing on the wall for their product too and just want to get their software entrenched on the Treo before the better product is available on it.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  16. DHart's Avatar
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    #156  
    Well, you could be right Bob. But Blackberry announced it will ink similar partnerships with up to 10 Asian cell phone service providers over the next 3 - 6 months. The deals are aimed at providing Blackberry SERVICES, not necessarily Blackberry branded phones. Blackberry understands that the value they offer the market is their reliable enterprise email solution. They need handsets at the other end, but they have learned they are not so good at designing voice/email/PDA handsets. Handset sales are an important part of their business, but they understand very clearly that their survival depends on becoming entrenched as the dominant enterprise email solution. Handsets like the Treo that enhance that direction are a benefit.

    Palm is a great complement to Blackberry services. The best handset design on the market. When they met to discuss a collaboration, they met as equals, each wanting to leverage their position in the market to get the best deal. Those kinds of negotiations tend to take a long time until all of the egos are sorted out.

    Bottom line - This is good news for everyone - Palm, RIM, and us.
  17. #157  
    Well, I dunno why this thread died a quiet death, but *I* won't buy the 700 because I will never, ever again own a Microsoft product.

    Guess this means I'm going to have to find a way to keep my 650 running by hook or by crook. Hopefully I'll be able to patch it with paperclips and tinfoil and such if necessary.

    Maybe, someday before we all die, Apple will relaunch the Newton...
  18. #158  
    Come to the dark side, likelite.
  19. #159  
    I hate don't MS, but my 700 is going back. It's just not ready for primetime (for me, at least).
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