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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by heberman
    After reading Engadget's interesting article on the Treo 700w - http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000867059961 - I have decided the 700w doesn't justify an upgrade from my Sprint Treo 650. My reasons:

    ........
    4. The 64 megs of memory sounds nice, but with Zlauncher and moving apps to the card, I really don't have memory issues.
    64 megs would be great with Palm OS and apps. It is very sparse for MS and apps.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    Guys, 64 megs of memory on a system where the OS takes up 40 is NOT a upgrade, its the same thing you already have in the 650. The 700w is a toy to test palm's ability to sell PPC devices.
    Agreed, if you want a WM5 device there are better devices now than the 700w. As the 700w release date approches it will be come obvious that the 700w can't compete.

    HTC Universal (Yea, I know its bigger)
    http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000800056059/

    Motorolla (this one looks good to me)
    http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000567051847/
    My Windoze toolz http://www.securitysoftware.cc
  3. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by pertinax
    Agreed, if you want a WM5 device there are better devices now than the 700w. As the 700w release date approches it will be come obvious that the 700w can't compete.

    HTC Universal (Yea, I know its bigger)
    http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000800056059/

    Motorolla (this one looks good to me)
    http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000567051847/
    Lame. HTC Universal is not quad-band, and therefore is worthless in the US. Also, neither one of your supposedly superior devices is designed for one-handed use. The only device I know of that's superior to the 700w is the Treo 650. 320x320 > 240x240
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Holden
    None of the software and reference material you mention as being included in WM5 is in the $400 I mentioned. . .

    450,000 word dictionary
    Spanish English dictionary
    Pocket Quicken
    TSMobile
    eReader and reference material
    Chess
    Checkers
    MegaClock
    Movie Guide
    BackUp Buddy
    mSafe
    Road Atlas
    Voice Dial

    Cheers, Perry.
    Holy Palm Pilot Perry! Ya got me there. My 600 is packed back into the card but with none of that stuff. Well Palm is claiming future Treos with POS, so in your case I would agree sticking with POS would be wise.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  5. phaggard's Avatar
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    #125  
    I don't believe the Treo 700 W is being made to get us Palm users to upgrade. As many have said, we have a lot invested in Palm software. They are looking for the Pocket PC people who have a lot invested in Pocket PC software.
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by phaggard
    I don't believe the Treo 700 W is being made to get us Palm users to upgrade. As many have said, we have a lot invested in Palm software. They are looking for the Pocket PC people who have a lot invested in Pocket PC software.
    Perhaps. It is always difficult to discern Palm's motives. However, it seems to me that if this were true, the Palm WM would have been announced with a Palm OS alternative so as not to confuse the market. The exclusivity period looks suspiciously like the Sprint exclusivity period that was executed in such a way as to get anyone and everyone who could to switch to CDMA. Only then was GSM supported. Note that the Palm WM is a CDMA device and the exclusivity is with a CDMA carrier.
  7. #127  
    Let me say again, people: This Treo that you guys are all up in arms about is NOT intended nor designed to entice CURRENT users of 650s to upgrade to. It's NOT necessarily positioned as the 'next Treo' in the product line, and not intended to wean you guys off the Palm OS over to some other platform. As many have said, including phaggard two posts up, it's not being made to get Palm users to upgrade. It's to go after those PPC users who want a better smartphone.

    So the whole premise of this thread is moot - 'why I won't upgrade to a 700W' - Palm did not design this new product for you guys. How many times must we repeat that? They are trying to EXPAND the market.

    And lastly, to those who say the RIM BES solution will take a llloonngg time to displace in the market, with Exchange SP2 - that is so wrong. For any large enterprise who has bought into Exchange and all things Microsoft (sharepoint portals, etc), they will dump their BES in a heartbeat, and here's why:
    - they don't want to support a TOTALLY SEPARATE infrastructure just for mobile devices - that's what the BES does today.
    - they will get the SAME if not higher levels of security with E2K3 and SP2. Device security via built-in FIPS 140-2 certification, remote device wipe, kill, etc.
    - if they use OWA now, they ALREADY have all the ISA servers and such used to support mobile access to Exchange - NOTHING else is needed. Zero cost.
    You tell any IT Director that he/she can improve his service to his users while at the same time eliminating some of his servers, and keeping the same if not better security, and lowering the cost - that person will jump all over that.
    And like it or not, for those companies that have given themselves over to Microsoft, they are slobbering to get this capability. The ONLY reason they have BES now is they have no choice, or at least they had no choice in the past. The execs wanted Blackberry devices; the IT folks had no choice. Granted, RIM has done an excellent job of building in solid security and robust device management, but they were the only game in town, for the most part (at least they were 2 yrs ago).

    Bottom line - if you're a sizable Exchange shop, Microsoft will 'help' you create a BES migration plan. And once Microsoft starts working on those kinds of plans, resistance is futile.....
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    ...Bottom line - if you're a sizable Exchange shop, Microsoft will 'help' you create a BES migration plan. And once Microsoft starts working on those kinds of plans, resistance is futile.....
    So true. MicroBorg now has its nose under the tent, so the enterprise future for the Treo is going to be in the WMxx camp. Perhaps Palm is willing to keep developing a Palm like OS for "the rest of us" but I wonder how many current Treo 650 users are agnostics - they don't know or care what OS it is so long as it keeps their calendar and contacts for them, and makes a decent call.

    There are legions of Palm handheld users that never graduate beyond the basic built in software. It's us crazies that load on 45 programs, music, data you name it. For these others, if their Treo has a nice "Bliss" background, and kept the big three data needs in sync, they'd just as soon use the MicroBorg desktop as the stark vanilla Palm OS interface. Then add on the "home-like" Windows media for songs and short video clips, what more could they ask for. One stop shopping thanks to Bill and friends...
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
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    #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    So true. MicroBorg now has its nose under the tent, so the enterprise future for the Treo is going to be in the WMxx camp. Perhaps Palm is willing to keep developing a Palm like OS for "the rest of us" but I wonder how many current Treo 650 users are agnostics - they don't know or care what OS it is so long as it keeps their calendar and contacts for them, and makes a decent call.

    There are legions of Palm handheld users that never graduate beyond the basic built in software. It's us crazies that load on 45 programs, music, data you name it. For these others, if their Treo has a nice "Bliss" background, and kept the big three data needs in sync, they'd just as soon use the MicroBorg desktop as the stark vanilla Palm OS interface. Then add on the "home-like" Windows media for songs and short video clips, what more could they ask for. One stop shopping thanks to Bill and friends...
    Then do we care if they go to BB or MS? If thats all they need, then they're welcome to it. You seriously think us geeks are going to be left out in the cold? Apple is still alive, no? We may remain thin, but a viable commercial market none the less.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    ......There are legions of Palm handheld users that never graduate beyond the basic built in software. ...
    Are there really? I chose the Treo because it was a good Palm. If I had just wanted a phone, I would get one of those little thin ones. If I had just wanted e-mail, I would buy a BB or a SK. I can hardly imagine someone even finding the Treo were he not coming to the market as a Palm user.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Are there really?
    I think so. Phone, email, web, sms, camera, photo album, music player, calendar, and address book. All built in. That's plenty of functionality for many people.
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Are there really? I chose the Treo because it was a good Palm. If I had just wanted a phone, I would get one of those little thin ones. If I had just wanted e-mail, I would buy a BB or a SK. I can hardly imagine someone even finding the Treo were he not coming to the market as a Palm user.
    Only anecdotal, but the last three people who I talked into buying the Treo 650 all wanted the same thing - calendar and contacts together, adn remote email. No interest in Documents to Go, Snappermail (Versamail was "good enough"), web browsing, etc.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    Only anecdotal, but the last three people who I talked into buying the Treo 650 all wanted the same thing - calendar and contacts together, adn remote email. No interest in Documents to Go, Snappermail (Versamail was "good enough"), web browsing, etc.
    The last one I talked to was running a movie on his. Had spare SD card for the purpose. Plans to buy a 2G card.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    So true. MicroBorg now has its nose under the tent, so the enterprise future for the Treo is going to be in the WMxx camp.
    Oh, absolutely.
    I'm going to go out on a limb here - and say the WM Treo with the MASSIVE exisitence of Exchange and Outlook will be "the next Blackberry".

    By this I mean:

    * The device (Treo as opposed to BB)
    * Background/server implementation (Exchange/Outlook as opposed to BES)
    Unlocked 750v: Voice / Data
    Blackberry 7130c: Private Line
    Motorola v60g T-Mo: Business Voice
    Also HTC TyTN factory; Palm LifeDrive & TX
    7 year Cingular/PacBell veteran.
  15. #135  
    Without a doubt. Why would any IT group use the Blackberry and incur the overhead of having to set up go between server for email sync with an Exchange server when the Treo WM will be able to sync directly with it?

    As far as Palm OS goes, I think Palm would be willing to keep developing Treo's with POS. The two bigger questions are: 1) Do the carriers want it? 2) Will POS be developed (and by who?) at the same pace as WM, if at all, so it can add the new technologies we all want (EVDO, Bluetooth 1.2, etc).
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  16. #136  
    The beauty of MS Wm push e-mail is that one person can be set up as easily as a whole team. You could buy your own device, go chat to the IT guys and after clicking a few check boxed in Exchange 2003 you will be up and running. No big purchase order, no justifying the expense. It makes it almost viral.

    Surur
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    And lastly, to those who say the RIM BES solution will take a llloonngg time to displace in the market, with Exchange SP2 - that is so wrong. For any large enterprise who has bought into Exchange and all things Microsoft (sharepoint portals, etc), they will dump their BES in a heartbeat, and here's why:
    - they don't want to support a TOTALLY SEPARATE infrastructure just for mobile devices - that's what the BES does today.
    - they will get the SAME if not higher levels of security with E2K3 and SP2. Device security via built-in FIPS 140-2 certification, remote device wipe, kill, etc.
    Gartner has already said that organizations who plan on implementing SP2 need to look at third party security applications.

    http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?doc_cd=129022

    The Treo is not, in and of itself, FIPS 140-2 certified. While Exchange is FIPS 140-2 certified as is Windows Mobile 5, the messaging pack of SP2 has not, as yet, received that certification. It is eligible for compliance, but has not received the certification.
    You tell any IT Director that he/she can improve his service to his users while at the same time eliminating some of his servers, and keeping the same if not better security, and lowering the cost - that person will jump all over that.
    And like it or not, for those companies that have given themselves over to Microsoft, they are slobbering to get this capability. The ONLY reason they have BES now is they have no choice, or at least they had no choice in the past. The execs wanted Blackberry devices; the IT folks had no choice. Granted, RIM has done an excellent job of building in solid security and robust device management, but they were the only game in town, for the most part (at least they were 2 yrs ago).

    Bottom line - if you're a sizable Exchange shop, Microsoft will 'help' you create a BES migration plan. And once Microsoft starts working on those kinds of plans, resistance is futile.....
    Actually, when you take soft costs into consideration, the cost will not be lower. From a device management and maintenance standpoint, both Good and BES provide a superior solution. With over-the-air, provisioning, a better security model, end-to-end visibility from server to device, I can show any IT director why SP2 is not ready for prime-time and why free isn't really free MSFT does firewalls, but no enterprise uses it. On top of that, the fact that messaging is all device driven, I question whether or not SP2 is even push, but at that point, we are getting into semantics.
  18. #138  
    Good luck GoodGuy. The 800 pound gorilla just stepped into the room.

    Surur
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Good luck GoodGuy. The 800 pound gorilla just stepped into the room.

    Surur
    Agreed, to an extent. They just stepped in and their history shows the first step is not always that strong. Microsoft has not won all the battles it has entered. Everyone points to Netscape, but the landscape is so much different now. MSFT has been trying to get into search for years, but Google is still king. Remeber WebTV and UltimateTV? Hotmail vs Yahoo Mail vs Gmail? However, I would be a fool to think that they won't become a player. I am of the opinion that by the time they do "get it right", email will be a commodity product and companies like Good and others will have moved on to bigger and better things. Believe me, our product roadmap is well beyond email.
  20. #140  
    Agreed that Microsoft's first step is not always great but that argument doesn't apply here. How many years has Micrsoft been doing Windows Mobile now? And many years has Palm dominated the smartphone market? This is hardly a first step.

    My corporation doesn't use Exchange it uses Notes. So Blackberry might hang on here. But for corporations using Exchange, this thing is a slam dunk no brainer. You would look foolish to sit in an IT organization meeting and suggest Blackberry plus the extra server overhead would be better for an Exchange environment.

    This thing ain't no WebTV. It's more comparable to when Windows NT 4.0 wiped Novell from the face of the planet. Godzilla is coming to the mobile email market in February.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
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