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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    I think you are forgetting RIM who is the real big dog in mobile devices. This gives MS a larger footprint in the space but MS's mobile division has been cash flow negative since it's inception. The expansion to Treos will help change that. I agree we have no need to debate the matter. We just see things differently.

    I see Palm slowing, you don't. No matter, we're gonna buy whatever looks good at the moment .
    And there is one of the key components - built in push email from Exchange servers to WM5 devices - a great device like the Treo - and the RIM crackberry starts to crumble. If there is one place Micro$oft is overly protective, its the enterprise space, and RIM has been too successful there for their own good.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by robber

    What does the palm os even offer at this point?

    -rob
    It has about reached it's limits.

    I guess we should be clear about things. The Palm OS and all it's failings is no longer the fault of PALM the company. It is now the fault of PalmSource Inc. that licenses the Palm OS. PALM the company just makes the hardware along with some added features and is positioned to use any OS that meets market demand. Which was the whole idea of splitting off PalmSource in the first place. I think the Palm OS like it's parent company PalmSource Inc. is heading towards a slow death. PALM the company is going to be around, although I think the competition is keeping them from growing much faster. MS has expanded their base of hardware partners in an effort to ultimately take down RIM. Windows will now be available in some form from most every major smartphone manufacturer out there. With the exception of RIM who is the real target of Windows' Mobile Division.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    And there is one of the key components - built in push email from Exchange servers to WM5 devices - a great device like the Treo - and the RIM crackberry starts to crumble. If there is one place Micro$oft is overly protective, its the enterprise space, and RIM has been too successful there for their own good.
    Agreed!

    Now MS will need to focus on SECURITY which RIM still has them beat on hands down! This is why some companies will never leave RIM. Until MS can improve things on the security end they'll stick with RIM. BlackBerry messages go encrypted to some secret RIM location for security. MS has not been able to offer a similar level of comfort yet.
  4. #64  
    That's true, but I know so many people who want to use their Treo's as their main email source, but are frustrated with POP limitations or poor Activesync performance with Versamail (the calendar seems to trash every 4-5 uses). If they can deliver push email, even if only SSL, they'll win.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  5. #65  
    Not so fast there kimosabe - SP2 and future solutions in Exchange will deliver much better security that EAS has in the past. Yes tons of IT managers have bought off on the RIM model, but that's because they had NO OTHER CHOICE. Now that MS is making rapid strides in improving their mobile device security and management functions in SP2, you know that RIM, just like so many other companies in the past, won't last more than...3 or 4 more years. Given enough time, Microsoft eventually kills everyone in their path. It will take time, for sure, but RIM is on their list. That's not a good place to be.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    ... Given enough time, Microsoft eventually kills everyone in their path. It will take time, for sure, but RIM is on their list. That's not a good place to be.
    And that's why I've been shouting that by 2008, what's left of Palm will be WM, or a line in the Dell chain of products (why not; HP's into smartphones and Dell seems to excel in high end consumer products)
    Last edited by dstrauss; 09/24/2005 at 07:35 AM.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  7. #67  
    nrosser, MS is not to the RIM level of security yet. Dare I say not even close yet.

    Certified Secure

    BlackBerry devices feature advanced embedded encryption technology. As a result, BlackBerry devices* have received the FIPS 140 validation, signifying their adherence to strict government security standards.
    You can read more about it at: http://www.blackberry.com/products/s...security.shtml

    And word is that their data goes through servers that are in literally secret locations. Sorry, but MS is not to this level yet. MS certainly has the resources to make it happen though.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by HasanDaddy
    dudes - the Palm OS is dead, as far as I'm concerned
    I've used POS since the first Palm Pilot devices almost 10 years ago, and don't even want to think what I have invested in it in terms of SW and learning curve. But sadly I figured this would be the case when PalmOne and PalmSource first split, and when I read about PalmSource's plans for the Cobalt generation of POS.

    The good news is we'll be seeing POS Treos for a few more years at least, I hope. With luck, it can retain a niche fanatic following like the Mac in the face of the overwhelming MS juggernaut. I just hope they keep hardware parity with the WM versions. Right now, if you just go by hardware, this T700 is a step back. Except for EVDO, the hardware is worse (I consider the memory a wash based on WM memory usage vs POS) nearly a year later than the T650!!

    Maybe the scenario Palm will follow is use POS on the more advanced hardware earlier, to appeal to the "elite" power users, and follow with a parity WM device later for the WM masses.
    - Dan Butterfield (dan@butterfields.net)
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by HasanDaddy
    dudes - the Palm OS is dead, as far as I'm concerned

    as far as the Treo700w goes --- I'm definitely afraid that this is a guinea pig device

    man, did we go through some probs with the 650's!

    I might hold off on the Treo 700 ---- my buying decision will rely on this -

    1. how well does it sync with MAC (if its better than Palm, I might just switch, as hotsyncing with Palm and Mac is atrocious)

    2. I'll miss a better screen, but syncing is more important to me

    3. EVDO would be extremely helpful -- if Sprint continues offering it at low prices, then going with the 700 might do it for me

    at the end though, it all comes down to syncing for me

    I'm very disappointed with the way that Palm OS works with MAC --- if WM works better, then I'm basically a sucker with $600 in my hand
    at this point there is no solution for syncing a Mac with WM5. Mark Space (Missing Sync) and PocketMac both say they will, but no ETA. My guess is at least a couple of months. And when they do, what will you get Contacts, Cal and installer. How good will it be? Some users of the PPC sync versions say not so good.

    I'm starting to agree about the Palm OS being dead now that Palmsource has sold.
    <body bgcolor="#ffffff">
    <p><font size="-2" color="#4684ff" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular"><b>imageone</b></font><font size="-2" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular"> &#x2022; current - <b>PowerBook G4 - Mac OS X - white iPod video 60GB - Treo 650 - 700p (Sprint)<br>
    </b></font><font size="-2" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular">retired - Visor Deluxe - Visor Prism - Kyocera 6035 - Treo 300 - Treo 600 - Blackberry 7250</font></p>
    </body>
  10. #70  
    nrosser, For more about Blackberry messages passing through RIM's secret location you can read this article.
  11. #71  
    Image - thanks for the info!

    this all sucks!

    can't Apple just make a smartphone for us? sheesh...
    BLUETOOTH!!!!
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    nrosser, For more about Blackberry messages passing through RIM's secret location you can read this article.
    and btw - Clarence Thomas is right

    RIM is much MORE secure!

    Blackberrys even have the capabilities to be erased, should one lose them ---- that is amazing technology right there

    I don't ever see WM becoming secure, until they rebuild their entire OS from ground up and plug the holes

    that was supposed to happen with LongHorn, but not anymore, now that MS has abondoned the WinFS system foundation - which basically means that Longhorn will be as crappy as XP

    MAC OS X FOREVER!!!!!
    BLUETOOTH!!!!
  13. #73  
    You guys ever think the reason they did this is because the 650 has so many software(OS) problems??

    Mabey they were getting fed up with Palm Source or maybe they are worried about what will happen to the development now that a new company owns it.


    I personally will buy a WM based Treo as soon as my cingular contract is up in a year. By then Cingular may even be offering them and I can upgrade at a savings or something.
  14. #74  
    I will give Palm one month after the announcement of the 700w (next monday) to announce the 700p. If it doesn't come out by then, I see this as an act of ignorance from Palm to the traditional Palm user base.

    Frankly Palm officially hasn't said anything to make the royal customers happy. Not even PRPRPR $talk$ $like$ &$quot$;$we$ $are$ $fighting$ $a$ $war$ $it$'$s$ $do$ $or$ $die$ $blad$ $blad$.&$quot$;

    I will reevaluate the options I have by then decide what I next phone is. I really want a small flip style PDA phone but there is nothing on the market right now. Maybe I will get the HTC Blizzard (candy bar PPC phone with touch screen) when it come out.

    One month, that's how much royalty I have in them. And no I don't care if this move is good for them. I am not Palm.
  15. #75  
    They said they'd detail the product roadmap on Monday. I think that means they'll talk about things beyond the next product launch.
  16. #76  
    I agree with everyone who is saying that they will not upgrade. Unless they make more changes, 64 MB of memory and a higher-res camera are not going to make me upgrade. EVDO is simply too expensive. I have a great setup with my 650 and I don't want to spend $400 to upgrade unless I am really getting a huge upgrade.

    Rock
    Sprint Treo 650

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  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    Not so fast there kimosabe - SP2 and future solutions in Exchange will deliver much better security that EAS has in the past. Yes tons of IT managers have bought off on the RIM model, but that's because they had NO OTHER CHOICE. Now that MS is making rapid strides in improving their mobile device security and management functions in SP2, you know that RIM, just like so many other companies in the past, won't last more than...3 or 4 more years. Given enough time, Microsoft eventually kills everyone in their path. It will take time, for sure, but RIM is on their list. That's not a good place to be.
    This is what they used to say about IBM too....and you know the rest of the story.
  18. vw2002's Avatar
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    #78  
    I don't like the 240 x 240 screen res. I'm also not that psyched about 64 mb ram of which 40 will be used up by the windows os.

    I love the 650 - the 320 x 320 is gorgeous.

    my absolute favorite new feature of the treo 700w is the keyboard - hands down.

    that layout is just fantastic - larger qwerty keys and larger dedicated buttons - I just think that looks perfect - in addition to a slimmer form factor than the 650! ( rounded corners )

    the thing really does look awesome. BUT, I want to wait for a cobalt version, with 320 x 320 res, bluetooth 2.0 ( wireless mp3 listening ) ev-do, 128 mb ram in addition to that gorgeous new keyboard design.

    very clever how palm's engineers increased the keyboard's buttons while simultaneously trimming down the phone's overall real estate.
    nice job I think.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by HasanDaddy
    and btw - Clarence Thomas is right

    RIM is much MORE secure!

    Blackberrys even have the capabilities to be erased, should one lose them ---- that is amazing technology right there

    I don't ever see WM becoming secure, until they rebuild their entire OS from ground up and plug the holes

    that was supposed to happen with LongHorn, but not anymore, now that MS has abondoned the WinFS system foundation - which basically means that Longhorn will be as crappy as XP

    MAC OS X FOREVER!!!!!
    Remote errase, HIGH BIT Encryption, etc etc, is all built into Exchange 2003 SP2 that will be released shortly. I have had a chance to view it pre-release. I honestly don't see what the Blackberry service is going to have over what MS is going to give for free.
  20. #80  
    http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache...s+mobile&hl=en
    Security. Complementing a number of security features already included in the Windows Mobile platform, such as Bluetooth authorization and end-to-end encryption over a virtual private network, Windows Mobile 5.0 has gone through extensive threat-modeling testing and completed the rigorous Microsoft Trustworthy Computing full security review. The platform is also FIPS-140-2-certified, meaning it meets the stringent U.S. government security requirements for IT products.
    Surur
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