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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Reality distortion field? And who says design is not a feature? Thats what people like about the Treo. And lastly, even Apple is adding further features to remain competitive.

    Surur
    Then what's the issue here? Palm is not adding features to their next phone?
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kirvin
    This is what Surur has never gotten and probably never will. It is, in fact, NOT about features. Features alone don't sell. Don't believe me? Look at the sales of the hx4700.
    The hx4700 is more expensive, less attractive, and has fewer features that its primary competitor. And despite your implication, HP doesn't release sales figures for individual models, so neither you nor anyone else can know exactly what the hx4700's sales are like.

    People actually buy (and don't return) a good user experience. My Treo 650 is the best PDA I've ever used and the best phone I've ever used. Why? Because of the integration and the user interface. It doesn't need VGA, it doesn't need WiFi, it doesn't need whatever the hip buzzword of the month happens to be because it does what it needs to do very, very well.
    This is the exact same argument that has been used since time immemorial to justify why nobody could possibly need color screens, expansion slots, multimedia, fast processors, high resolution, WiFi, dual slots, flash memory, or whatever the "buzzword of the month" was.

    You say that people buy a good user experience, and you imply that PocketPCs don't have one. That would be news to the 60+% of buyers who choose a PocketPC based machine. The truth is that features DO sell. It's silly to say they don't. Tell me that Bluetooth and EVDO aren't features. Tell me that 5-way navigation isn't a feature, or flash memory. When people decide on a device, what they make their decision based on is features: what machine does the most. If it weren't, everyone would be toting either Zires or paper notepads.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckotek
    If you want a nicer UI, there are plenty of apps to help you do that on a Palm device. That is what makes Palm OS so successful. It can be as simple as you need and use much fewer resources than WM OR, you can load it to the hilt and do anything you need with it as long as someone is willing to write an app to do it.
    OK. How many casual treo users (i.e. all the ones that don't read treocentral and a good number of those who do) get round to installing a different launcher app?

    If the default interface is not what consumers are looking for, it is unlikely that they will (a) buy the device and (b) go to the effort of installing a new interface, no matter how great it is.

    I've owned several palmOS devices since my first in 1998 and I'm still not sold on the concept. I like the Netscape vs MSIE analogy - I was a diehard netscape user, refusing to switch to IE out of principle. Eventually I reached a point where too many websites refused to load correctly in Netscape and had to give up on following an ideal to stay with the mainstream.

    I see the same happening with PalmOS. As long as key applications such as Acrobat Reader and new hot apps such as skype remain absent from PalmOS people are going to be swayed towards PocketPCs.

    What Treo does well is meld mobile phone and PDA technology. I think they have to switch OS to remain at the forefront of this technology.

    Steve
  4. #24  
    PocketPC magazine Sept 2005 (Vol 8, No 5) has a 13 page in depth review and tour of Windows Mobile 5.0. If you're interested in WM5.0 and learing about it, I suggest getting this issue.
    The magazine also says there will be a full Win Mobiile 5 emulator for windows XP. Maybe we could get a hold of it and 'test drive it' and check it out.
  5. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamaDBrown
    This is the exact same argument that has been used since time immemorial to justify why nobody could possibly need color screens, expansion slots, multimedia, fast processors, high resolution, WiFi, dual slots, flash memory, or whatever the "buzzword of the month" was.
    I remember DOS users arguing that no one really needed to run more than one program at a time.
  6. fly888's Avatar
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       #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by calebu2
    What Treo does well is meld mobile phone and PDA technology. I think they have to switch OS to remain at the forefront of this technology.
    Steve
    But what is it that makes you think that putting MW inside a Treo will continue to allow the PDA meld well with the phone? Would you agree that at least a dozen WM devices with similar(or better) hardware already exist in the market but none of those seem to compare to the Treo? I just find myself skeptical when considering what it is it that Palm is going to be able to do with WM that seasoned WM developers haven't yet been able to accomplish.
  7. #28  
    I would agree that Pocketpcphones are poor phones, and will likely continue to be. Putting WM in a Treo would likely make them more powerful PDA's however (WIFI, VOIP, PDF, DirectX, PlayForSure, Voice Command, Today screen plug-ins etc), but you have to wonder if the success of Treo's are related to their simplicity, and if this will seriously damage non-techie usability.

    Surur
  8. #29  
    Speaking as someone who used to be a "Palm guy" who switched to PocketPC, and then migrated back to a Treo 650, I'd like to add a bit to the discussion. I switched back to Palm and the Treo 650 purely because I found it to be the best compromise phone/PDA device on the market. To me, this means that the Treo is inferior to PPC when viewed purely as a PDA, and inferior to most cellphones out there, or even a Series 60 smartphone, when viewed purely as a phone. If the market were doing nothing, the Treo would remain the best compromise device available.

    However, the market is not doing nothing. The Windows Mobile platform continues to improve and speed ahead. While Cobalt may or may not be dead (who knows? - and this is part of the problem...) and Palm/Linux may be released someday (again - who knows?), Window Mobile 5 is set to be released within the next month. Perhaps PPC/Phone devices haven't been great. That's yesterday's news. The devices are improving and they have a huge amount of potential.

    HTC alone has announced 3 (maybe more??) new WinMo PDA/phone hardware devices. Three. From one manufacturer. How many new PalmOS based PDA/phones have been announced recently? How about within the last year?

    I know someone out there is thinking "software!" I'm sensitive to the claim of "but there's not as much software" since I'm a Mac user (well, part-time, anyway). My answer is, with a couple of exceptions, there are equal or better options for PPC for anything I have on my Treo. One of the biggest exceptions is e-mail software (namely Chatter).

    I'm not writing this out any passion for either platform... in fact multiple platforms creates competition which is good for all of us. That's why it's such a shame that Palm seems to be falling apart. I want the best tool to do what I need - I need a mobile office in my hand. Today, that's the Treo. Tomorrow, maybe not.
  9. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by fly888
    But what is it that makes you think that putting MW inside a Treo will continue to allow the PDA meld well with the phone? Would you agree that at least a dozen WM devices with similar(or better) hardware already exist in the market but none of those seem to compare to the Treo? I just find myself skeptical when considering what it is it that Palm is going to be able to do with WM that seasoned WM developers haven't yet been able to accomplish.
    Is the HP iPAQ hw6515 not just as good or better than the Treo hardware form (factor/asthetics aside since a Treo would be the same?) There are some details which a lot of the WM phone fall short such as battery life or other kludgy bugs, but overall doesn't it 'do more.'
    I would assume the hardware in the treo would be slightly beefed up to handle the bloatware of WM. But I guess all of these things are part of the point of this discussion.
    Treo 750 (AT&T)
    Treo600->Treo650->Cing8525->Blackberry 8700c->Treo750->AT&T Tilt->Treo750->iPhone 3G
  10. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    If the Treo has WM it would remain the same size, have the same battery life, but would have:
    1) easy access to WIFI through a SD card
    2) access to Skype, Netfront, Acrobat
    3) a larger game library
    4) better multi-tasking
    You can buy a WiFi card for the Treo
    There are VoIP applications and PDF software available for the Treo.
    The Treo has a much larger game library than the WM
    WM users like to talk about multi-tasking, like they talk & playgames while burning a DVD on their cellphone...

    Linux based OS would kick WM pretty hard, and Palmsource could have it, if they opened up development.
  11. #32  
    Not quite, gyrfalcon:

    >No WiFi cards - a big sled, but no practically working SD
    >Multi-tasking: think EVDO and Blazer in the background - not without Cobalt
    >Linux: Check out Palmsource's acquistion by Access - too late for that

    Momma always said "Woulda..coulda...shoulda..."
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  12. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by gyrfalcon
    You can buy a WiFi card for the Treo
    It's not a card, it's a full-bodied sled. It weighs as much as your Treo does. It may be fast, but according to the T|C review, it is still buggy, and it just came out. This is hardly an advantage over a WM 2005 device with native WiFi.


    Quote Originally Posted by gyrfalcon
    There are VoIP applications and PDF software available for the Treo.
    Same with WM 2005, plus Skype won't work with the Treo in its current incarnation. Where's the advantage?


    Quote Originally Posted by gyrfalcon
    The Treo has a much larger game library than the WM.
    Not that I care (or most users, I'd be willing to bet) because my PSP is far superior to my Treo, but with WM 2005 running DirectX, it's only a matter of time before this point is moot as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by gyrfalcon
    WM users like to talk about multi-tasking, like they talk & playgames while burning a DVD on their cellphone....
    Yes, multitasking is the killer app right now for smartphones. I'm sure everyone would agree that being able to download email while using Blazer, or being able to download a page in Blazer in the background while responding to an IM/SMS would be near the top of their list. I haven't used a single-threaded OS since 3.11, why would I think that's acceptable on my Treo that has a more powerful processor and more memory than a 15 year old Windows machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by gyrfalcon
    Linux based OS would kick WM pretty hard, and Palmsource could have it, if they opened up development.
    Why, Linux hasn't kicked Windows hard on the desktop or server fronts yet, why would you think that Palmsource (who is no more) would be able to do it in the smartphone space? This is typical fanboy speak.
    I'm back!
  13. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    Not quite, gyrfalcon:

    >No WiFi cards - a big sled, but no practically working SD
    >Multi-tasking: think EVDO and Blazer in the background - not without Cobalt
    >Linux: Check out Palmsource's acquistion by Access - too late for that

    Momma always said "Woulda..coulda...shoulda..."
    You beat me to it, dstrauss.
    I'm back!
  14. #35  
    Not to pile on but the WM version of Acrobat completely smokes the Palm version.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  15. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kirvin
    (BTW, I'd pick the boring Honda over the unreliable Ferrari any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I need my car to work, not look good while it's in the shop.)
    Exactly, the Treo doesnt add sex appeal, its not supposed to. Its supposed to be a smart phone and it is. Name one person who got laid because they have a Treo

    Quote Originally Posted by taylorh
    Put it this way, if I could have WinXP on my Treo today, I would.
    Really? You would have to re-authorize it every time you put in a different SD card....

    The last thing i want is an M$ OS that sucks. I have yet to be impressed with an M$ OS. XP isnt bad, but its nothing special. I would like to see real multitasking and protected memory, but these are things that I expect in coming revisions to the Palm OS, there is no need to switch my OS just yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    Why, Linux hasn't kicked Windows hard on the...server fronts yet
    Are you serious?
    iPhone in the Washington DC area.
  16. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by AnteL0pe
    Really? You would have to re-authorize it every time you put in a different SD card....
    Is that the best you could come up with? It's not even realistic.
  17. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by taylorh
    Is that the best you could come up with? It's not even realistic.
    No, it was a joke, but honestly I wouldnt want an OS like XP on my phone. As with many other M$ OS's there are too many unexplained, random issues. Sometimes the wireless network card wont make a connection for 5-10 mins, other times apps just wont launch, i need to reboot it almost daily just to keep it running. These are issues that shouldnt be present on a modern computer, there is no excuse for it. I certainly wouldnt want the "stability" of an XP box transfered to my phone, it would be far worse than the Palm OS i have now.
    iPhone in the Washington DC area.
  18. #39  
    A thought I posted in another thread in response to a "Is the Palm OS is dead?" post:



    Are their millions of us with Palm OS software? They can't dump it, but they might migrate it to a Palm/Linux OS that is backwards compatible.

    Why not dual OS the Treo hardware format? More hardware sold should bring down the cost on components that are in common and direct competion between the two OS types has to be healthy -- should mean they stay on their toes to keep the user experience the best it can be. . .

    Cheers, Perry.
    Last edited by gtwo; 09/13/2005 at 01:12 PM.
  19. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by AnteL0pe
    Are you serious?
    Deadly. I don't know of any company running Linux file servers. There's more to servers than Apache.

    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserv...s/default.mspx

    And the "desktop Linux" threat is certainly nowhere to be found. All Microsoft has to do is change their pricing structure for developing nations and the free Linux threat will be no more.

    It's another fad, just like Netscape. I'm sure Linux is great...right up to where you realize your legacy accessories won't work with it. Or when you realize "free" doesn't always mean "free".
    I'm back!
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