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  1.    #1  
    I recently moved back from an iPhone to a Windows Mobile Device (Treo pro) as I need the enterprise push email and over-the-air synchronisation with Lotus Notes.

    However, since I last bought WM applications, the prices seem to have rocketed!

    Two examples are:

    Kinoma Play: This does a reasonable job of bundling the capabilities of a few mixed alternatives into one package. It's okay. It's not worth $30 though and that is illustrated in that you can see posts from "Charles" defending their pricing model to potential users. Apparently Palm users who have already purchased this get no discount when they change to a WM device. They should have "Spotted October's deal!"
    They offer Kinoma Free as an alternative, but really its full of pop ups exorting the user to upgrade at every turn.
    Ironically, Kinoma's rep, Charles even had the cheek to make reference to the price of iPhone fart apps. Well, Charles as someone who has purchased hundreds of iPhone apps, I can tell you that pricing for apps is way lower. Not even close.
    I know I don't have to buy Kinoma Play, but here's a newsflash for you. I'm not buying it because it's not worth $30. I would say $10 would be on the high side but just about bearable because it is quite pretty. So you get no money instead of $30. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone there.

    1-calc: List price $30. Crikey - for a calculator with a neat interface and some converters! they even charge extra for skins. The 1-calc lite version has even been crippled so that it doesn't work with square (= Treo pro) Smartphones. You could buy a pretty powerful stand alone calculator for that money.
    At least they offer a discount to upgraders to be fair.

    Now I understand that I do not have to purchase these applications but that is not my point.
    My point is why have prices for WM\ Pocket PC applications stayed so high? Especially when compared to the range of iPhone apps that either free or very cheap?

    I have purchased a few apps, as some of them are reasonable value (WMS 3, SKTools...)

    There seems to be a lot of room for someone to come in and undercut these people. Why isn't it happening.

    Now, let's have a heated debate...
  2. #2  
    Now I am not trying to defend the wm app makers who sell their apps for big $$$ here, but I think the reason iphone apps are comparitavely cheaper is first, they have a dedicated app store, so any app is likely to get good amount of exposure whenever a user searches for a kind of app, so more users are likely to try it. Since WM doesnt have such an app store, WM apps dont have that much of an exposure (unless they are really popular), so companies have to sell there software at higher price to make profits.

    Second, since iphone app store has tons and tons of app, they need to stay completive by keeping the price lower (competition is always good for end-user). and since competition is not that fierce in WM apps arena (dont get me wrong here. WM has many many good apps available for it, but there are very few which do lot of things and do them well, like kinoma) app makers can choose to sell their apps for more $$$.

    I would still like to pay less for apps that I like. Hopefully once windows marketplace opens up with wm6.5, prices will drop.
    Cingular Treo 750||ATT WM6 ROM||AT&T Blue SIM||1GB SanDisk Card||
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lancaster View Post
    Kinoma Play: This does a reasonable job of bundling the capabilities of a few mixed alternatives into one package. It's okay. It's not worth $30 though and that is illustrated in that you can see posts from "Charles" defending their pricing model to potential users.
    It doesn't take much defending. CorePlayer = $30, Pocket Tunes = $38, Resco Photo Viewer = $25, Twikni = $5 -- that's $97 and we've just scratched the surface of Kinoma Play's capabilities.

    Unless your needs are very casual, it's obvious that Kinoma Play is an outstanding value. If they are casual, you should be using the free Kinoma FreePlay anyway. (It only alerts you if you try to use advanced codecs, etc.)

    Plus, Kinoma Play provides an amazing overall experience and uses far less memory than a pile of random apps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lancaster View Post
    Well, Charles as someone who has purchased hundreds of iPhone apps, I can tell you that pricing for apps is way lower. Not even close.
    That's because there's nothing like Kinoma Play for the iPhone.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lancaster View Post
    There seems to be a lot of room for someone to come in and undercut these people. Why isn't it happening.
    I'm a desktop developer (at night now) and know that most people don't understand the complex world of developing applications... not all of us make 1 million a year and fly first class.

    Heck, I went to McDonalds for the first time in AGES last Thursday. Since WHEN is a #1 $6.09? My God!!!!! For ONE person.... think if I were feeding three....

    Developers need to get paid to stay in business... I'm sure the $30 is justified... no one wants to price themselves out of business.

    Far as the kinoma program, I don't use it... I don't even use the free one with WM. I've never even tested the program, far as I know... *I might have*.

    Hopefully the developer is pricing the product based on ROI instead of what OTHER programs cost.... I'm thinking his reply is based on a "common sense" marketing plan.

    At any rate, $30 is a bit much, but if it is worth it, go for it... if not, don't pay. If people don't play, he will be forced to lower prices.
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  5. chong67's Avatar
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    #5  
    Konami Play .. I got it free. Sign up for a offer and sponsor will pay for it.

    Maybe GPS software would be the most expensive.
    Dell x51v → Motorola Q (Verizon) → Mogul → 800w → Treo Pro → Touch Pro 2 (SERO) → HTC EVO 3D → HTC EVO 4G LTE → HTC One S → Nexus 4
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by prabhg View Post
    Now I am not trying to defend the wm app makers who sell their apps for big $$$ here, but I think the reason iphone apps are comparitavely cheaper is first, they have a dedicated app store, so any app is likely to get good amount of exposure whenever a user searches for a kind of app, so more users are likely to try it. Since WM doesnt have such an app store, WM apps dont have that much of an exposure (unless they are really popular), so companies have to sell there software at higher price to make profits.

    Second, since iphone app store has tons and tons of app, they need to stay completive by keeping the price lower (competition is always good for end-user). and since competition is not that fierce in WM apps arena (dont get me wrong here. WM has many many good apps available for it, but there are very few which do lot of things and do them well, like kinoma) app makers can choose to sell their apps for more $$$.

    I would still like to pay less for apps that I like. Hopefully once windows marketplace opens up with wm6.5, prices will drop.
    Yes, you make some good points. The iPhone mass hysteria has probably tempted a lot of good developers over to that platform. That being the case, some sort of equilibrium will eventually return when some of them see that there are real opportunities to undercut $30 applications for Windows Mobile.
    Kinoma see hell bent on alienating potential customers. I've read reports of people getting this application by signing up to "Worldpay," some successfully, but in other cases they start getting credit card spam filling up their inbox. Why would Kinoma want to be associated with that nonsense? That isn't marketing, that's naivety.
    Saying that, I would like to stress that this isn't a pop at Kinoma - they just happen to be a good example of the genre.

    I think it is true that GPS software is the most expensive, but we're talking about a whole different level of complexity there. The maps have to be licensed and, in any case, the prices for Windows Mobile software are in line with other platforms.
  7. #7  
    Trying to knock Kinoma when the competition charges just as much and Kinoma does more? That's alienating? Just sounds like warped logic to me. Not that I'm out to defend WM and the developers. Just tired of all the iphone comparisons. If you want to compare everything to an iphone, just go buy one and quit b*tching.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  8. #8  
    You pay for quality. Having no need for farts, I need applications that provide good database capability (HanDBase), spread sheet, document processing and so forth (use both Microsoft and Documents To Go). I also want applications that can do more than 1 thing efficiently. Hence I have the paid releases of Kinoma and pTunes.
  9. #9  
    Is great living in a free country, where like-minded people with your views certainly have the opportunity to develop and market products which compete with existing ones in terms of features and performance at a much lower price.

    It also gives you the freedom to pass up those products which you feel are not worth the asking price. The choice is always yours...
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  10. #10  
    There are plenty of sites with great free WM apps.

    And see this thread where many Treo Pro owners mentioned using Pocket Music (free) over Kinoma.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post
    It doesn't take much defending. CorePlayer = $30, Pocket Tunes = $38, Resco Photo Viewer = $25, Twikni = $5 -- that's $97 and we've just scratched the surface of Kinoma Play's capabilities.
    Charles, I think you do better answering questions when they are asked, than trying to debate the value or your product. You'd do better to say nothing in theads like this and allow them to die off. You've got the Treo Pro deal, plus other devices that are embedding Kinoma. No need for you to scrap and scrape in debates like this, you'll make your money.

    We know CorePlayer can play way more formats than KinomaPlay will EVER support. I know you remember that little conversation.

    (And personally, I prefer Resco Photo Viewer for viewing pictures over Kinoma, but usually use the Touch Pro TF3D photo viewer that is better than both IMHO. Shame the HTC Photo viewer was not included in the Treo Pro, but a version of it may be available for free here.)

    And not every Twitter app costs money.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lancaster View Post
    ...My point is why have prices for WM\ Pocket PC applications stayed so high? ...
    I don't agree the prices are too high...It is difficult to develop quality software.

    Besides, it's a free market, there many options out there, many of them free. If you think prices are too high, you can not buy or develop your own, market it, support it and make a killing.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Charles, I think you do better answering questions when they are asked, than trying to debate the value or your product.
    Lancaster started a legitimate thread about app pricing and mentioned Kinoma Play specifically, and I thought it was important to address the value question.

    OTOH, I generally don't respond to posts by people that I think are just bored and trying to start a flame war, but I also tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.

    I appreciate the feedback, though.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  13. #13  
    I bought Kinoma Play some time ago. I thought it looked cool so I bought.

    Of course I didn't find out until afterwards that it doesn't support A2DP headphones. I also don't like the fact I can't build a play list on the fly like WMP.

    Not supporting A2DP is pretty poor IMO.
  14. #14  
    What headphones are you using? Did you pair them? My Motorola S9's work just fine with Kinoma Play.
  15. #15  
    KinomaPlay does not support BT remote control, AVRCP.

    A2DP is not about remote control.
    The Advanced Audio Distribution Profile (A2DP) defines the protocols and procedures that realize distribution of audio content of high-quality in mono or stereo on ACL channels. The term “advanced audio”, therefore, should be distinguished from “Bluetooth audio”, which indicates distribution of narrow band voice on SCO channels as defined in Chapter 12 of Bluetooth Baseband specification [1].
    A typical usage case is the streaming of music content from a stereo music player to headphones or speakers. The audio data is compressed in a proper format for efficient use of the limited bandwidth. Surround sound distribution is not included in the scope of this profile.
    The A2DP focuses on audio streaming, while the Video Distribution Profile (VDP) specifies video streaming. Support of both profiles enables us to distribute video content accompanied with high-quality audio. The usage case of video and audio streaming is described in the VDP.
    Note also that the A2DP does not include remote control functions. Devices may support remote control features by implementing both A2DP and the control profile as depicted, for example, in the usage scenario of Audio/Video Remote Control Profile[2].
    I purchased Kinoma because it indexes many webcasts well. I wanted the more, knew what I was buying and am satisfied I paid for it.
  16. terra's Avatar
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    #16  
    how about a deal...$20.00 for kinoma...what do you think???
  17. #17  
    I paid for Kinoma back when I had my 800w and loved it. I still am pretty much satisfied with it, but for one exception: it doesn't play the audio in videos that I shot with my Treo Pro. You would think that software that comes on the ROM of a device would FULLY support that device, but it doesn't. That is my major beef with the software, and it hasn't really been addressed.

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