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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Please. People do it all the time. I have been using ebay forever and know its in and outs and policies. I have been doing it for years and any member can do it today.
    1) Sign in.
    2) go to the seller of the item you wish to buy.
    3) go to "detailed feedback" of the seller.
    4) Click anyone who bought the same item.
    5) you go to their page.
    6) right there on the left is "contact the member."

    It is something I do with every major purchase.

    There is literally nothing in the ebay polcy that stops or says you can't do it

    You are perfectly able under ebay policy to ask about their experience. if they got what was decribed. if they got a current iteration of something that has several iterations (or gray market items). I have asked expensively about warranties on camera equipment for a decade since gray market "alternate channel" camera equipment is often in ebay as well.
    I refer you to:

    Protecting your privacy

    Look under Limitations of member-to-member contact:

    "Although members can contact one another through the Contact an eBay Member feature, this feature should only be used to facilitate a transaction. We'll investigate reports of misuse of the eBay Forwarding System".

    What you say you are doing could also be construded as transaction interference by the seller, if you tell the buyers the reason for your question, ie, that they have purchased an alternate market item. The intention of eBay is that if you have any question about any item, you deal directly with the seller, not his buyers or potential buyers. That is why they have the "Ask the Seller a Question" link on all auctions.
    Last edited by ivhs72; 04/22/2009 at 02:59 PM.
    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  2. #42  
    Is there any other way for an eBay vendor to determine if the phone is "authorized" other than putting in a battery and firing it up? I've queried a couple of sellers and haven't heard anything back yet. I'm wondering if they might be reluctant to remove and setup the "new in box" phone to find out the software version.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by retropia View Post
    Is there any other way for an eBay vendor to determine if the phone is "authorized" other than putting in a battery and firing it up? I've queried a couple of sellers and haven't heard anything back yet. I'm wondering if they might be reluctant to remove and setup the "new in box" phone to find out the software version.
    If you look at the very first post in this thread, it looks like they can find out the version by the Serial Number.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    I refer you to:

    Protecting your privacy

    Look under Limitations of member-to-member contact:

    "Although members can contact one another through the Contact an eBay Member feature, this feature should only be used to facilitate a transaction. We'll investigate reports of misuse of the eBay Forwarding System".

    What you say you are doing could also be construded as transaction interference by the seller, if you tell the buyers the reason for your question, ie, that they have purchased an alternate market item. The intention of eBay is that if you have any question about any item, you deal directly with the seller, not his buyers or potential buyers. That is why they have the "Ask the Seller a Question" link on all auctions.
    Look, you did not even know about contacting proipr members and thought it could not be done. I don't know how much experience you have with ebay since I had to show you how to do it, since it is not uncommon to ask questions of prior buyers and you were under the impression the ebay contact systerm did not allow you to do so.

    People ask these type of questions all the time. it is not covered under those limits.

    I don't know where you get what the "intention if ebay" is. People ask prior buyers questions about a purchase all the time ,it is perfectly ok and not constrained by that graph.

    You are reading in your interpretation of that policy -- not what ebay actually does or "intends." . You cant find on the ebay forums case of people being banned or disciplined for asking questions of prior buyers on whether they got a legit product or not.

    It is not transaction interference according to ebay.

    As a test I just asked 20 more prior buyers over the past couple of days what version they got, if they called Palm to see if it would be updated to proper version, and what response they got from Palm.

    I let you know if I get "banned" or any problem at all with ebay.

    As far as ethics are concerned all of this is ethical. what is unethical is the ebay sellers who are selling a device that they claim is the sprint model but is not. According to Palm none of these sales are legitimate and if you contact Palm they want to know who is selling them. (I have sent a note to them with the names of the ebayers.)

    By the way here is the full and competel text of the link you used:
    e
    Bay allows members to contact one another through the eBay Email Forwarding System, with features such as "Contact an eBay Member" and "Ask Seller a Question". The purpose of these features is to provide an open avenue of communication between eBay users. Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:
    Listing cancellation
    Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
    Limits placed on account privileges
    Loss of PowerSeller status
    Account suspension

    To report misuse of Contact an eBay Member, please click on the "report" link in the email you received.
    HideAdditional Information

    Members who have 0 feedback will be required to provide additional identifying information by providing credit card information before they can use the Contact eBay Member feature. If an action has been taken on your account for misuse of the Contact an eBay Member Feature and you believe that the action was taken in error, please contact us.

    Most email correspondence sent without using eBay's Email Forwarding System is not regulated by eBay. This could include replies or subsequent messages sent as a result of a message delivered through the eBay Messaging System.. Members who receive an unwelcome message that was not sent through Contact an eBay Member, should refer to the Offensive or Unwelcome Email page for more information on the options available.
    HideWhy does eBay have this policy?

    Communication among eBay members is a key part of the eBay buying or selling experience. For that reason eBay provides the eBay Messaging System, and has this policy with regard to misuse of the system.
    there is nothing there at all against contacting a prior buyer to see if they got a legit product.
    Last edited by aero; 04/23/2009 at 10:38 AM.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Look, you did not even know about contacting proipr members and thought it could not be done. I don't know how much experience you have with ebay since I had to show you how to do it, since it is not uncommon to ask questions of prior buyers and you were under the impression the ebay contact systerm did not allow you to do so.

    People ask these type of questions all the time. it is not covered under those limits.

    I don't know where you get what the "intention if ebay" is. People ask prior buyers questions about a purchase all the time ,it is perfectly ok and not constrained by that graph.

    You are reading in your interpretation of that policy -- not what ebay actually does or "intends." . You cant find on the ebay forums case of people being banned or disciplined for asking questions of prior buyers on whether they got a legit product or not.

    It is not transaction interference according to ebay.

    As a test I just asked 20 more prior buyers over the past couple of days what version they got, if they called Palm to see if it would be updated to proper version, and what response they got from Palm.

    I let you know if I get "banned" or any problem at all with ebay.

    As far as ethics are concerned all of this is ethical. what is unethical is the ebay sellers who are selling a device that they claim is the sprint model but is not. According to Palm none of these sales are legitimate and if you contact Palm they want to know who is selling them. (I have sent a note to them with the names of the ebayers.)
    First off, my experience on eBay started in December of 1995, and I registered in January 1996. I've suffered through their growing pains (I can remember when you could only post 20 items a month, and that was only when your feedback reached a certain level). I did know how to contact previous buyers, I just didn't feel that I needed to advertise my knowledge of how their system works. As for what eBay's intentions are, I suggest that you read their links that have been posted here regarding transaction interference and privacy, as well as reading the user agreement that you signed to buy and sell on their site.

    I previously asked you what your brother's and your eBay user IDs were and you never responded. If you're so sure that you're not doing anything wrong on their site, what's the harm in sharing? My user ID is ivhs72, just like it is here.

    If you're concerned about the ethics of the sellers, why have you not contacted eBay about them? If they suspect something is stolen or illegal, there are avenues to report those items and have them investigated and they will take the appropriate action. Why not send that list of buyers to eBay as well as Palm? If Palm is a member of the VeRO program, then they can have those auctions shut down very quickly, no questions asked. (I know all about VeRO, I've had some auctions ended - also had them reinstated later, and got a formal apology from Warner Brothers, but that's another story).

    Glad to see that you're reading the eBay forums as well. I think I mentioned that as a good resource of information on sellers and buyers several days ago, as did malatesta.

    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post

    By the way here is the full and competel text of the link you used:
    e

    there is nothing there at all against contacting a prior buyer to see if they got a legit product.

    The text you are saying that I quoted is incorrect. My quotes were from the eBay page "Protecting Your Privacy" . The quote I have is from the third paragraph in the section "Limitations on member-tomember contact. The quote you have is nowhere on that page. If you're going to quote me, get it right! If you're saying I'm copying something, get it right!

    Please edit your posting to give the correct text from the link that I make reference to. In addition, please provide the URL of the text that you are quoting from.
    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    If you look at the very first post in this thread, it looks like they can find out the version by the Serial Number.
    Ok, thanks -- I don't see a published list of "good" serial numbers vs. "bad" serial numbers, so I guess the best suggestion I can make to the seller is to give me the serial number of the phone for sale so I can contact Palm and ask if it is covered, or the seller can do it, and then let me know.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by retropia View Post
    Is there any other way for an eBay vendor to determine if the phone is "authorized" other than putting in a battery and firing it up? I've queried a couple of sellers and haven't heard anything back yet. I'm wondering if they might be reluctant to remove and setup the "new in box" phone to find out the software version.
    That would be tough, as only Palm would have the data as to what serial numbers had which software version. Since all of those phones that shipped with 1.03 were supposedly returned (but obviously were not), their records may or may not reflect what the actual version on the phone is. I know that my phone makes no reference anywhere on the box as to the version. I wouldn't know if mine was a 1.03 that Best Buy returned and had upgraded, or if it was made with the 1.04 onboard. My guess is the latter, but it's only a guess


    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    I would start emailing the other purchasers (there are about 75a) of treo pro from wireless dream to let them know he sold them the old version
    When you start advocating action like this, that is transaction interference, pure and simple.

    Transaction Interference


    "Members are not permitted to email buyers in an open or completed transaction to warn them away from a seller or item. If you have a problem with a transaction, please use the feedback forum and review our Fraud Protection Program."

    (BTW, this is a direct quote from that page, not my interpretation of what eBay's meaning and intent are.)


    I guess it can't get any plainer than that,does it?
    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by retropia View Post
    Ok, thanks -- I don't see a published list of "good" serial numbers vs. "bad" serial numbers, so I guess the best suggestion I can make to the seller is to give me the serial number of the phone for sale so I can contact Palm and ask if it is covered, or the seller can do it, and then let me know.
    retopia - i did just what you mentioned above. I emailed about a donzen sellers, hearing back from 2 who were willing to share a serial number with me. I contacted Palm Support via Chat and they confirmed it was a 1.03 version and suggested I not purchase that device.

    .....2:24 PM L: serial number is P4PE01A9H0GH
    2:26 PM Vance: Hello.
    2:26 PM Vance: How are you?
    2:26 PM L: fine and you
    2:26 PM Vance: I understand that you are trying to buy Pro and need to know whether it holds warranty with the help of serial number.
    2:26 PM Vance: Am I right?
    2:27 PM L: yes - there are many unauthorized versions and i want to make sure this one is genuine
    2:28 PM Vance: Okay, I will try to track whether the device holds warranty with the help of the serial number....
    ....2:31 PM Vance: Could you please let me know when was this device bought?
    2:32 PM L: it is not as yet - i am thinking of buying it
    2:32 PM L: i asked seller to provide the serial so i could check with palm
    2:35 PM Vance: I just tried to check in our data base using the serial number but unfortunately there is no Information about the Date of purchase of the device. The device is not yet registered.
    2:36 PM L: can you tell if the device is valid and a Palm device? i hear there are many versions with the 1.03 unauthorized firmware and i do not want to get one of them
    2:37 PM Vance: Yes, I can sure that it is a Palm device and it shows that it is Palm Pro.
    2:37 PM Vance: And the carrier is Sorint.
    2:37 PM Vance: Sprint*
    2:38 PM L: does it tell you what version of firrmware or if it is flagged as 0 day warranty and unsupported...
    2:41 PM L: Is it 1.03 version?
    2:42 PM Vance: Here it is listed as 1.03 version.
    2:42 PM Vance: And let me explain that if the device is with the version 1.03 I suggest you not to buy that device.
    2:42 PM L: thank you that is what i was afraid of ---
    2:43 PM L: i heard it was recalled by Palm
    2:43 PM Vance: It was not released for the sale .It was just released for testing purpose......
    Last edited by grizzlee12; 04/23/2009 at 03:07 PM. Reason: names
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by grizzlee12 View Post
    retopia - i did just what you mentioned above. I emailed about a donzen sellers, hearing back from 2 who were willing to share a serial number with me. I contacted Palm Support via Chat and they confirmed it was a 1.03 version and suggested I not purchase that device.
    Thanks for sharing your experience. I heard back from one seller who didn't want to take the phone out of the box and run setup to find out the software version. The phone he was selling has since sold, so I didn't do a followup to ask for the ESN.

    I contacted two other sellers and asked for the ESN, and explained why I wanted it. We'll see if I hear back from them.

    At the moment, it is looking like purchasing a Treo Pro from an eBay vendor is going to be a gamble, if one has a warranty claim down the road.

    I'd be curious as to how so many "unauthorized release" phones, new and in unopened boxes, entered the sales stream.
  12.    #52  
    I'm really beginning to wonder if the rumor that devices were stolen from the warehouse is true.

    It is odd how so many sealed in box 1.03's are out there.

    If the rumor is true, I don't blame Palm for not wanting to support them.
    Just call me Berd.
  13. #53  
    I purchased from Ebay seller vantagecomunications and it is on the way. Hoping this one is as listed. This seller responded to my email query that he has 1.04 and the item listing included 1.04 in the title and body of the item.

    Email reply -
    Dear grizzlee12u,

    We carry firmware version 1.04
    - vantagecommunications

    Ebay item listing title -
    `.`.`NEW PALM TREO PRO FOR SPRINT FREE 2GB/1.04..`.`.`.

    Keeping my fingers crossed......
  14. #54  
    I won a bid and paid 203.50 with seller Idreamofwireless. I emailed him to make sure it was version 1.04 and not 1.03 and told him the reasons why i would need 1.04. He was honest enough to email me back and tell me that he only has 1.03 versions and refunded my paypal account. I then decided to take another chance and won a bid for 202.50 with ebay seller monkeybiz and emailed him as to what version it is. This time i have not paid yet and at this point he has avoided my question and has not told me what version it is even though we have sent each other two messages.

    My question to you guys is what happens if refuse to pay him in terms of my ebay account? Because if he doesn't tell me what version it is i'm not paying him even though it's such a great deal. I might just take the risk though.
    Treo 600> Treo 650> Treo 700> Treo 755 >Treo 800w> HTC Diamond> Palm Treo Pro > HTC Touch Pro > Blackberry Bold > HTC Touch Pro 2 & Blackberry Tour
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I'm really beginning to wonder if the rumor that devices were stolen from the warehouse is true.

    It is odd how so many sealed in box 1.03's are out there.

    If the rumor is true, I don't blame Palm for not wanting to support them.
    Can't be true, or at least I doubt it.

    For one, there is actually no evidence that this happened (where did that rumor start anyways?).

    Second, why would Palm punish customers by not supporting individual phones but I dunno, let people on eBay sell stolen property with no interference or repercussions? Is Palm not aware of law enforcement? lol

    Palm, on the confirmed one or two times they have refused service, has never inquired where this supposed "stolen" property came from. That seems quite odd if that rumor has any truth to it.

    As to why there are so many 1.03's out there, we really don't know how many is "a lot"--100? 200? 5,000? But if they are stolen, then Palm is still at fault here for taking out on the customer and not prosecuting or halting sales of stolen property. That's just bad business. I mean put out a friggin' press release or something and protect your customers--not that hard.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I'm really beginning to wonder if the rumor that devices were stolen from the warehouse is true.

    It is odd how so many sealed in box 1.03's are out there.

    If the rumor is true, I don't blame Palm for not wanting to support them.
    That's what it sounds like to me. Stolen phones.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by champagne609 View Post
    . . . I then decided to take another chance and won a bid for 202.50 with ebay seller monkeybiz and emailed him as to what version it is. This time i have not paid yet and at this point he has avoided my question and has not told me what version it is even though we have sent each other two messages. . . .
    Monkeybiz was the seller who told me he didn't want to take the phone out of the box and run setup, because then it would no longer be "unopened." Why not ask him if he will give you the serial number? Then you could contact Palm and check with them.

    I've noticed over the last couple of days, Idreamofwireless has been running a bunch of Treo Pro auctions, maybe 8 to 10 at a time. They are short-run, also, like 12- to 24-hour auctions. It's been pushing prices down.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by champagne609 View Post
    I won a bid and paid 203.50 with seller Idreamofwireless. I emailed him to make sure it was version 1.04 and not 1.03 and told him the reasons why i would need 1.04. He was honest enough to email me back and tell me that he only has 1.03 versions and refunded my paypal account. I then decided to take another chance and won a bid for 202.50 with ebay seller monkeybiz and emailed him as to what version it is. This time i have not paid yet and at this point he has avoided my question and has not told me what version it is even though we have sent each other two messages.

    My question to you guys is what happens if refuse to pay him in terms of my ebay account? Because if he doesn't tell me what version it is i'm not paying him even though it's such a great deal. I might just take the risk though.

    In a situation like you describe, the seller has the ability to file a dispute 7 days after the sale. At that time, if you haven't paid, it will be up to eBay decide what to do. The could supsend you, force you to honor your payment, and even suspend you for non-payment. In theory, you should not have bid and/or purchased the phone till you were sure what the software version was. Did you ask the seller these questions before the auction ended? The fine print of when you place a bid is that you are entering into a legal and binding contract. It would almost be easier to pay for the phone and see if it is a 1.03 or 1.04. If it is a 1.03, you can file a claim with PayPal for him selling an item that is not as described, ie, can't get warranty, mfg. won't service it, etc. My years of being on both ends of a PayPal dispute have told me that you would have a better chance of disputing it after paying than not paying for it at all. Another option is to just contact the seller and ask him to be released from you bid, and have him cancel the auction. I've done that for buyers in the past when they have accidentally purchased two of my items by mistake. Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck.


    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  19. #59  
    When I purchased my 800W from Best Buy, I asked if it was possible to buy it without activation. They said yes, but only if I paid full retail. In other words, they said that any Sprint phone I buy, if I want the upgrade or new customer pricing, they have to activate it on the spot. Thus it would no longer be a "new and unopened box" phone. That is why I don't understand where all of these unauthorized, version 1.03 phones, new and unopened, are coming from? It doesn't make sense that they are coming from individual Best Buy customers who bought them in the brief time period before they were recalled.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by retropia View Post
    It doesn't make sense that they are coming from individual Best Buy customers who bought them in the brief time period before they were recalled.
    Most of these Treo Pro sales are coming from sellers who for the most part only sell cell phones, so they are most likely authorized resellers of such devices (as opposed to some individual just off loading a phone or 2).

    That's why I'm skeptical about the claim that these are "stolen". These guys are also selling Touch Pros, Moguls, Diamonds, Blackberries, etc. Why assume that this one model is "stolen" as opposed to just received shipment that was just never sent back to Palm? Maybe not everyone got the "BestBuy memo"...

    That seems a more plausible explanation than "they're stolen but the police are not involved at all". Either that or selling stolen Palm property is very easy and consequence free

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
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