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  1.    #1  
    i know this probably should go under the kinoma thread, but i'm really pissed about it.

    kinoma has stated it will not support divx or xvid data because those containers are traditionally used for "no good".

    what about mp3?

    i just think it is crap in a world where they are essentially trying to compete with iphone they shoot themselves in the foot and limit the potential for their application.

    now i have 2 media players. the pretty one and the one that does the real work.

    ANOTHER reason to ditch WinMo devices and go to BB or iPhone. Our best apps go political and the end user (who pays $24) is out!
  2. #2  
    We had a lengthy debate with Charles of Kinoma over in this thread about it all already. You can see what he says about MP3, AVI, Divx, Xvid and so on there. We brought up all you're wondering about there.

    Whatever limits Kinoma places on themselves is their own loss. We have no shortage of applications available to do what Kinoma won't.

    Quote Originally Posted by nsmoller800 View Post

    ANOTHER reason to ditch WinMo devices and go to BB or iPhone. Our best apps go political and the end user (who pays $24) is out!
    Excuse me, but I'm not at all convinced. I've got a BB, its shortcomings are why I also have a WM device, a Touch Pro. And the iPhone is the epitome of trying to hold customers in their (Apple) box. Anyone who wants to can make a WM application tonight, that looks as pretty as Kinoma and plays Divx. Can you tell me the name of the iPhone application that plays Divx videos? With WM there are applications that play Divx. Kinoma's refusal to do certain things simply results in me using Kinoma less. Their loss, as other alternatives are found and more often used. Eventually it results in the company that plays stiff taking the future loss. Kinoma is loved today, but with a platform that allows more open innovation, which WM does way better than IPhone, the door is open for others to pick up any slack. The road of tech history is full of has-beens, that said "no" too many times.

    Using a 3rd party application maker, to assert an entire platform is bad is a bit short sighted.
  3.    #3  
    Excuse me, but I'm not at all convinced. I've got a BB, its shortcomings are why I also have a WM device, a Touch Pro. And the iPhone is the epitome of trying to hold customers in their (Apple) box.
    BB shortcomings? which in particular? what model bb?

    Anyone who wants to can make a WM application tonight, that looks as pretty as Kinoma and plays Divx.
    and this is why i reboot my device 2-3 times daily, because ANYONE can make them and they tend to be unstable.

    Can you tell me the name of the iPhone application that plays Divx videos? With WM there are applications that play Divx.
    not specifically ranting that iphone>wm for divx. but how many wm mm players DON'T support divx?

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Kinoma's refusal to do certain things simply results in me using Kinoma less.
    i already paid for the software, 24.98 if i recall, which is almost 24x the amount of a traditional iphone app. use it less or not, they got the scratch.

    Using a 3rd party application maker, to assert an entire platform is bad is a bit short sighted.
    i dont know if i can use the platform either... lack of updates, poor standard browsers, crashes... the wm user MUST rely on 3rd party apps to have a decent multimedia experience. Kinoma was our best effort at a "pretty" and smart mm app.

    my final, non-kinoma point is, if iphone had a qwerty keyboard and copy and paste, they'd pretty much have no competition. their os is stable, intuitive, and innovative. there ARE thousands of options of apps that actually work for less than $5, so the REAL need to have anyone develop their own apps is really nil.

    bb bold for sprint ("niagra") promises to be a challenger, but no touch screen. i'm jumping far from palm & winmo. iphone has a great "experience" and BB delivers a solid performing device...
    Last edited by nsmoller800; 04/05/2009 at 10:43 AM.
  4. #4  
    Why pay the money if divx wasn't & never would be supported? Just wondering...
  5.    #5  
    was supposed to be an add on, they decided against it.
  6. #6  
    You reboot your device 2-3 times daily? Lack of updates, poor standard browsers, crashes? Relying on 3rd party apps - hey, that happens everywhere. 3rd party apps are always better than standard apps.

    As for the iPhone, go ahead and jump - just remember it really lacks in "multi-tasking." Also, a co-worker last week dumped his BB for a Touch Pro and loves it. Another loved the iPhone when it came out and now complains about the crashes, though it does play music nicely and does not do what my Touch Pro does. So really, I guess it is what we perceive.

    Stability? Not a problem with my device. Lags? Not a problem with my device. Crashes? Not a problem with my device and incidentally, it plays music and does not crash when doing so and I can do a couple of other things at the same time - 2 spread sheets open, email going, you know, things the iPhone cannot do - and still not crash.

    Quote Originally Posted by nsmoller800 View Post
    and this is why i reboot my device 2-3 times daily, because ANYONE can make them and they tend to be unstable.


    i dont know if i can use the platform either... lack of updates, poor standard browsers, crashes... the wm user MUST rely on 3rd party apps to have a decent multimedia experience. Kinoma was our best effort at a "pretty" and smart mm app.

    my final, non-kinoma point is, if iphone had a qwerty keyboard and copy and paste, they'd pretty much have no competition. their os is stable, intuitive, and innovative. there ARE thousands of options of apps that actually work for less than $5, so the REAL need to have anyone develop their own apps is really nil.

    bb bold for sprint ("niagra") promises to be a challenger, but no touch screen. i'm jumping far from palm & winmo. iphone has a great "experience" and BB delivers a solid performing device...
  7. #7  
    I have thought that so many times upon reading rants. We complain because something is not supported, will not be supported, et cetera - and the company states they never said they supported it. Goodness.

    Quote Originally Posted by reverendrhino View Post
    Why pay the money if divx wasn't & never would be supported? Just wondering...
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsmoller800 View Post
    BB shortcomings? which in particular? what model bb?
    They've just figured out how to support up to 32GB MicroSDHC. Just finally have a means to support YouTube. Their first touch screen venture has not been so pretty. RIM does e-mail and appointment setups well, but lags when it comes to other things, like being slow to increase MicroSDHC size support and YouTube. The number of 3rd party applications pales in comparison with the mass of WM applications. BB web browsers are not at all as good as some of the WM browsers. You show me the BB browser that supports as much as Skyfire? Does the concept of a customized ROM exists in BB land? I could go on and on.

    and this is why i reboot my device 2-3 times daily, because ANYONE can make them and they tend to be unstable.
    Oh, when I had a Treo 800w, I rebooted several times a day too. Not so with my Touch Pro. But I found in my own experiences, that the 800w was not handling some applications I wanted to use well.


    not specifically ranting that iphone>wm for divx. but how many wm mm players DON'T support divx?
    The point is that with WM there are more options.

    i already paid for the software, 24.98 if i recall, which is almost 24x the amount of a traditional iphone app. use it less or not, they got the scratch.
    I get most of my WM applications for free. There are several sites with nothing but free WM apps. Kinoma gives you about 30 days to decide if you want a refund. But you also mentioned the following:

    was supposed to be an add on, they decided against it.
    Can't say I ever saw where Kinoma suggested they would be offering Divx support. Can you point to where that was ever stated by Kinoma? You knew it didn't support it when purchased (or rather they didn't claim to have Divx support when you purchased if you didn't already know) and I'd really like to see what statements from Kinoma led you to feel they ever would.

    i dont know if i can use the platform either... lack of updates, poor standard browsers, crashes... the wm user MUST rely on 3rd party apps to have a decent multimedia experience. Kinoma was our best effort at a "pretty" and smart mm app.
    Updates for WM devices vary based on the manufacturer and carrier you're using. That's not something MS has control over, but MS does and has provided updates for plenty, it's up to the device makers to make them all available for a given device if it's a WM thing. MS can offer some patches directly, but things like an update to a new WM build is not fully in the control of MS.

    There's a bit of a philosophical difference of opinion here though. With the Treo line, 3rd party support was always one of the desired benefits for most Treo customers. We wanted devices we could customize ourselves rather than being pretty locked into what the manufacturer provided. So if you like the manufacturer having more of a heavy hand in things, yea you may want to try something else.

    Kinoma is far from the only good multimedia application, but things like Touch Flo are not easy to get running on an 800w. Some of your issues are because of the device you have. Just as you asked what BB model in your earlier question, some of your issues are because of the particular WM device you're using.

    my final, non-kinoma point is, if iphone had a qwerty keyboard and copy and paste, they'd pretty much have no competition. their os is stable, intuitive, and innovative. there ARE thousands of options of apps that actually work for less than $5, so the REAL need to have anyone develop their own apps is really nil.
    They're selling pretty swell without the additions you mentioned . But again, it seems you prefer the Apple or RIM way of doing things. So, maybe for you it would be best to get one of their devices? Again, you've not at all convinced me and some others who have tried some of the others or looked into what they have to offer.

    bb bold for sprint ("niagra") promises to be a challenger, but no touch screen. i'm jumping far from palm & winmo. iphone has a great "experience" and BB delivers a solid performing device...
    BB is solid, because there's not much that can be easily customized, but this is something you seem to prefer. OK, so I guess you'll be getting something from RIM or Apple and I hope it makes you happy .
  9. #9  
    It doesn't sound like you are able to but if you can still get a refund, coreplayer plays divx and is only $24.95. Just FYI.
  10. #10  
    Kinoma Lite is pretty much a joke outside an MP3. Everything else pretty much says "Purchase Kinoma". I don't have any player other than Windows Media. Are the 3rd party apps really worth the money?
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  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    Are the 3rd party apps really worth the money?
    To me purchasing coreplayer was. My work phone system sends me an email with a .wav file any time I get a voice message. When I am out of the office I sometimes need to check them. For whatever reason windows media player would not play this file. It seemed weird to me since .wav format is basically a microsoft file type. Anyway, I could not figure out how to make the file play on my phone through windows media player but with coreplayer it worked fine. Plus the added benefit of youtube support as well as being able to play divx, it was worth it. Just my thoughts though.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsmoller800 View Post
    kinoma has stated it will not support divx or xvid data because those containers are traditionally used for "no good".
    No, that's not why we don't support AVI. It sounds like you're connecting two separate things I've said:

    #1: Kinoma Play doesn't support AVI directly because it's a very old, crappy container format. You can easily transcode them to a supported format with Handbrake, or stream them to Kinoma Play by installing Orb on your media server.

    #2: The only place AVI files are used today is for P2P file sharing. Certainly, you can also find "no good" files on those same P2P networks in modern formats that Kinoma Play does support natively.

    I know you're a huge AVI fan, and probably not interested in the alternatives I present in #1, and I completely respect that. In that case I can only regret that Kinoma Play isn't a good option for you.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Last edited by Charles@Kinoma; 04/08/2009 at 07:20 PM. Reason: typo
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  13.    #13  
    no you don't get it...

    p2p file sharing has plenty of jpgs, mp3s, and other kinoma supported media, as well as itunes supported media such as mp4 etc etc etc

    "crappy" "junkie containers"
    "just transcode using..."

    these aren't things people running a business say... [i've retyped this block of text about 4 times, but i finally decided that i shouldn't have to elaborate on that sentence]

    that, charles from kinoma, is "why kinoma is stupid". those aren't eloquent words to choose, i'll give you that, but the inflection is the same.


    now away from the kinoma argument and on to the winmo/treo vs the world argument:
    the argument that apple doesn't allow divx doesn't stand either, because they have a proprietary media player for their OS. if a third party developer came along to make a replacement media player, one would think it would be broad sweeping and all encompasing. what is the reason to use a third party app if it does not solve the problems the main app has.

    as of this writing, i've ordered my iphone. os 3 is being released with all the fixes anyone would want. the last thing remaining is multi-tasking, which, is coming down the pike as we speak.

    treocentral - you guys have been great. Treo's, you've let me down!!!!
    Last edited by nsmoller800; 04/08/2009 at 08:33 PM.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsmoller800 View Post
    as of this writing, i've ordered my iphone. os 3 is being released with all the fixes anyone would want. the last thing remaining is multi-tasking, which, is coming down the pike as we speak.
    Or support for .avi files

    Sorry, I just find it odd that you are complaining of lack of support from Kinoma for .avi, which is their right/choice to not support, yet are going to a system where .avi's are not supported period.

    I mean, there are other 3rd party apps that do support .avi on Wimo and the Treo, you do still have that option (e.g. Core Player for money, or TCPMP for free). No big deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by nsmoller800 View Post
    Treo's, you've let me down!!!!
    Sounds more like you just want an iPhone really bad and are looking for reasons to justify having a media-centric device (that is closed and proprietary) instead of a business/messenger centric one, which is open.

    No big deal. iPhones are fine for what they do, just not sure we need all the pretense/drama about Kinoma.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  15.    #15  
    drama to get attention. my point about kinoma is it is an unsound business practice, which i feel is stupid. i'd rather go closed than go open except for "crappy old containers" that are on "p2p file sharing".
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsmoller800 View Post
    drama to get attention. my point about kinoma is it is an unsound business practice, which i feel is stupid. i'd rather go closed than go open except for "crappy old containers" that are on "p2p file sharing".
    But that's not the situation. You do have Core Player (pay) or TCPMP (free) as options that work on WM and Treos to play .AVI. No gun to your head to use Kinoma.

    There are other issues at play too, like how there is no trial for Core player because they support things like .avi. In order to play game with media companies, you can't be seen as even tacitly supporting p2p. That's what happens when business and government collusion happens (DMCA).

    But it's a free market that works both ways, not an "unsound business practice": companies are free to choose how they make their products and you are free to choose to walk away. I just don't see the point in haranguing 1 company when you do have alternatives on the same platform readily available.

    Going further, if you have to convert .avi to .mp4 for the iPhone, why not just convert .avi to .mpg or whatever for Kinoma? What's the difference? (and correct me if I'm wrong, but you need to pay for or find a converter for the iPhone since iTunes can't do it for you either). It's like the same situation. Apple doesn't support .avi or .avi conversion yet you are buying their hardware and software. Just seems...I dunno...ironic?
    Last edited by Malatesta; 04/08/2009 at 09:18 PM.

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  17.    #17  
    prettier os
  18. #18  
    Nsmoller800 - Enjoy your IPhone.

    It was once speculated, that perhaps Kinoma does not support AVI, because they can't get them to playback in their player efficiently. If anybody knows a WM media player that uses more resources than Kinoma let me know. If any do, I'm sure it's a terribly short list when compared with all the WM media players that are available.

    Oh my, a free Dixv media player: Pocket DivX Player 0.9
  19. #19  
    Who freaking cares...move on, next
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsmoller800 View Post
    prettier os
    ...and no .avi support, glad to see this Kinoma thing was just a red herring.

    Maybe I should pop on over to an Apple forum and start a thread "Why I think Apple is stupid. Or, Why Apple took 2 years to figure out copy and paste?" ;-)

    Then again, as said above, who freaking cares? Enjoy the iPhone. Later. Gonna go watch some .avi files on my phone, lol.

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