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  1.    #1  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Even on the PC mag story TC has posted, the reception issue is listed as a "con."
    here is what they said:
    On the other hand, reception wasn't the best. The handset fluctuated between 1X and EV-DO mode in a rural area, while a nearby Sprint BlackBerry Pearl 8130 spent more time in EV-DO mode and exhibited additional bars of signal strength
    On the first point, I found the indicator simply more accurate. It "fluctuates" between 1x and evdo because it is more accurate. for example compared to the 800w we are coming off of, if you make a call on on 800w the evdo icon stays lit up, which is in error. the pro doesn't do this. I think it simply has a more accurate icon system.

    On the second point, the signal bars are not a determinant across handsets. they are a metric for that handset across various conditions. I have had plenty of handsets with less signal bars in the same location as others but which have: better reception, better cal quality, less drops, etc.
    Signal bars as a determinant of a handset's inherent reception quality is an incorrect assumption.

    Because I have an airave I was able to conduct a number of tests simply by walking out of range. MY Treo Pros hold better and further than our800w in walk away tests done concurrently with a handset in each hand.

    the PC Magazine article aslo calls audio quality into question, which makes me wonder who tested this phone. and how dimwitted they must be, since the Pro has outstanding audio quality
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    On the first point, I found the indicator simply more accurate. It "fluctuates" between 1x and evdo because it is more accurate. for example compared to the 800w we are coming off of, if you make a call on on 800w the evdo icon stays lit up, which is in error. the pro doesn't do this. I think it simply has a more accurate icon system.
    No offense, but I find that white-washing a bit. There's a difference between being "more accurate" and just not having as good reception.

    Fact is, if my 800w has the EV icon on and I can pull data on EV then it will naturally be faster with less lag than 1x. If the Treo Pro, next to any other phone, is in 1x mode while the others are still in EV then that is not more accurate but worse reception--plain and simple.

    That seems to be the case here.

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  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    No offense, but I find that white-washing a bit. There's a difference between being "more accurate" and just not having as good reception.

    Fact is, if my 800w has the EV icon on and I can pull data on EV then it will naturally be faster with less lag than 1x. If the Treo Pro, next to any other phone, is in 1x mode while the others are still in EV then that is not more accurate but worse reception--plain and simple.
    So it is a "whitewash" to point out that some phones, like for example the 800w, falsely show EVDO while on a call, while the Pro has more accurate and less error prone icons that show you on 1x while on a call?

    What I see on the Pro is simply more accurate metering.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    So it is a "whitewash" to point out that some phones, like for example the 800w, falsely show EVDO while on a call, while the Pro has more accurate and less error prone icons that show you on 1x while on a call?

    What I see on the Pro is simply more accurate metering.
    Depends on how you look at it... if the BB (per PC mag review) were able to use EVDO while the pro was not... then we would not have this disagreement...

    More accurate or a poor signal?

    Just the fact that several sources have noted issues with reception should provide some indication that reception on the phone is at least not "great." Then again it might not be super bad either. Depends on your definition of "great" and "bad." lol
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  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    So it is a "whitewash" to point out that some phones, like for example the 800w, falsely show EVDO while on a call, while the Pro has more accurate and less error prone icons that show you on 1x while on a call?

    What I see on the Pro is simply more accurate metering.
    Status of the Ev/1x icon during a call has absolutely nothing to do with signal reception during data transfer--that is at issue here.

    When I had the Treo Pro and the 800w side by side in low signal situations, the Treo Pro switched to 1x whereas the 800w would not. When I would then pull data, the Treo Pro was pulling at 1x speeds and the 800w as (low) Ev speeds.

    Fact is, the 800w will switch to 1x when in a low signal area and it happens to do this less often than the Treo Pro from my experience.

    Now I have also stated that I didn't have a problem with "in call reception" when the phone is using 1x, but the fact that I switched to 1x more frequently for data was noticeable and others concur:
    Quote Originally Posted by RaeRae View Post
    Now with the phone, I've got no coverage. Sitting in one place in my condo, my phone switches back and forth between EVDO, 1X and roaming.
    In fact, that is exactly what PC Mag said:
    On the other hand, reception wasn't the best. The handset fluctuated between 1X and EV-DO mode in a rural area, while a nearby Sprint BlackBerry Pearl 8130 spent more time in EV-DO mode and exhibited additional bars of signal strength
    That is awfully coincidental that we're expereincing the same behavior.

    And the poll here at TC is aiming in the direction of so-so reception with nearly 50% of the respondents (an admittedly low number) saying it is fair or bad.

    Look Aero, the Treo Pro is like any phone on the market: it has its pros and cons; don't let pride get in the way in admitting that the Treo Pro does not excel in reception. I personally don't think it's a huge deal and within average variation for cell phones, but it is a noticeable performance difference that should be noted.

    But to take an obvious con of the Treo Pro and turn it into a pro takes chutzpah. If my Treo Pro is pulling 1x data when other phones are still in EV, don't tell me the Treo Pro is simply more accurate!

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  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Status of the Ev/1x icon during a call has absolutely nothing to do with signal reception during data transfer--that is at issue here.
    My point is the bouncing between indicated EVDO and indicated 1x has do do in part with a bug in the 800w, which we know reports EVDO even when in 1x state. The Pro accurately reports 1x in situations where the 800w claims EVDO but does not have EVDO.

    Anyone with a Pro and an 800w (and I have both right now) can test this. make a phone call. The pro accurately indicates 1x. The 800w FALSELY reports it is evdo when on a phone call.

    This could also be happening in polling states, or more likely the Pro is simply reporting any switch to 1x immediately and the 800w not doing so even when in 1x -- as we know from its behavior during phone calls.

    I find the Pro and 800w identical in both data and voice reception. If anything the Pro is slightly better and I have tested them side by side extensively as well.

    As far as the poll is concerned we would probably get the same result with any phone including the 800w.

    I think it takes chutzpah to take a known bug in 800w EVDO indication when in fact in 1x, and say it points to better reception!

    I should also note that there are quite a number of the unfixed non authorized pros out there among our users and poll respondents. The unfixed unauthorized units probably had worse reception -- we know the fixed units can update prl and the unfixed ones can't update prl automatically which affects both evdo and voice recpetion.
    Last edited by aero; 04/02/2009 at 09:36 AM.
  7. #7  
    Thank you for search! I was wondering what the deal was with switching to 1x whenever I make a call. I had not remembered my 800w doing that here. I know it's not bad reception because when the call ends, it goes back to EV and stays there while using my data connection. Glad I wasn't losing my mind.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by SandersJC1964 View Post
    Thank you for search! I was wondering what the deal was with switching to 1x whenever I make a call. I had not remembered my 800w doing that here. I know it's not bad reception because when the call ends, it goes back to EV and stays there while using my data connection. Glad I wasn't losing my mind.
    You weren't losing your mind. This entire issue is "caused" by a difference in the way the icons work, no more no less. The icon on the 800w to show 1x/EVDO shows EVDO even when the 800w is in 1x. It could be considered a 800w bug. The icon on the Pro switches to 1x while on a call (ewhen you are forced by all current CDMA to 1x), while the 800w still shows you on EVDO even though you are not on evdo.

    I am finding on Pro that text messages and polling also seem to trigger the icon, which is technically correct but most handsets do not do.

    All I see is a differnece in icon behavior, ie a difference in the two indicator workings
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Depends on how you look at it... if the BB (per PC mag review) were able to use EVDO while the pro was not... then we would not have this disagreement...

    More accurate or a poor signal?

    Just the fact that several sources have noted issues with reception should provide some indication that reception on the phone is at least not "great." Then again it might not be super bad either. Depends on your definition of "great" and "bad." lol

    The problem is how they determine signal strength. Basing it on the bars is about as completely useless as one can get.
  10. #10  
    There are two different arguments here, as Mal has stated.

    Coming from an HTC device, the icon switching from Ev to 1x when on a call or receiving & sending a text message is normal on both the Touch Pro and the Touch, and now on the Treo Pro.

    The other argument (imo the real one) is the reception issue. If the phone is switching to 1x and transferring data, it's in 1x mode pulling the data at 1x speeds, and blocking your phone calls. If you have the Treo Pro and another phone side by side, and one indicates 1x while the other indicates Ev, call them both and see if either one goes to voicemail. If the Ev on one phone allows the call to come thru and the 1x on Treo Pro doesn't, then the icons are representing everything correctly.
    If God brought you to it He'll bring you thru it!
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnybravo View Post
    The problem is how they determine signal strength. Basing it on the bars is about as completely useless as one can get.
    I know... that is why we are not talking about bars... lol
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  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaggrey View Post
    The other argument (imo the real one) is the reception issue. If the phone is switching to 1x and transferring data, it's in 1x mode pulling the data at 1x speeds, and blocking your phone calls. If you have the Treo Pro and another phone side by side, and one indicates 1x while the other indicates Ev, call them both and see if either one goes to voicemail. If the Ev on one phone allows the call to come thru and the 1x on Treo Pro doesn't, then the icons are representing everything correctly.
    Well what I was getting at is the fact that we know the icon is wrong on the 800w. I am making a call right now and it states I am in EVDO, which is wrong. THE Pro seems to indicate this state more correctly, albeit disconcerting and giving the impression of switching between evdo and 1x when it isn't in fact doing so any more than 800w.

    Tha tis not withstanding the reception/bars issue which I beleive is attrribituable to inflated bar reporting on 800w or deflated bar reporting on Treo Pro more than reception per se.

    Mainly from tests that are not perfect, but which I think are pretty darn good, what I believe we are seeing is a instrumentation delta there as well
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Well what I was getting at is the fact that we know the icon is wrong on the 800w. I am making a call right now and it states I am in EVDO, which is wrong. THE Pro seems to indicate this state more correctly, albeit disconcerting and giving the impression of switching between evdo and 1x when it isn't in fact doing so any more than 800w.
    But once again, we are not talking about during calls.

    Do you have any evidence that the 800w incorrectly reports Ev/1x status during data transmission? Because when I see 1x, I know I'm getting 1x speeds and when I see EV I know I'm getting EV speeds--it is pretty obvious, there is no error there.

    This goes back to the main point: people are reporting (and even I have experienced) the Sprint Treo Pro switching to 1x more frequently during non-call situations, in comparison to other phones like the Sprint BlackBerry Pearl 8130 and 800w.

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  14. #14  
    Not to add more to the chaos of this discussion, but the Treo Pro also appears to not transmit at EVDO speeds like other HTC handsets. Hell, even in 1X, it feels nightmarishly worse than dial-up. (My old HTC outperformed the Treo Pro at all data levels.)

    My opinion on the EVDO on the Treo Pro is that it is not as fast nor is it as capable of maintaining weak EVDO connections as other handsets. This is not a deal breaker, but neither is it a selling point.

    The Treo Pro is a solid dependable WinMo device. Very stylish and efficient. But it is not exceptional or ground-breaking. Other devices exist that perform better. They just don't look as cool.
    Last edited by jtraveler; 04/09/2009 at 03:24 AM. Reason: Clarification
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  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    This goes back to the main point: people are reporting (and even I have experienced) the Sprint Treo Pro switching to 1x more frequently during non-call situations, in comparison to other phones like the Sprint BlackBerry Pearl 8130 and 800w.
    NO, A lot of us are seeing this:
    Quote Originally Posted by SandersJC1964 View Post
    Thank you for search! I was wondering what the deal was with switching to 1x whenever I make a call. I had not remembered my 800w doing that here. I know it's not bad reception because when the call ends, it goes back to EV and stays there while using my data connection. Glad I wasn't losing my mind.
    The very first thing I noticed myself about the Treo Pro was the 1x icon coming up, until I figured out that it was doing this during calls as it actually should when prior handsets I had had did not report a fallback to 1x correctly. and therefore seemed to go to 1x less.

    Are you saying that some amount of this report like some amount of the bars reporting cannot be instrumentation?

    I am getting better general reception, and EVDO more often on the Pro than on the 800w.

    I see zero difference in RF from the testing cabs as well.
  16. #16  
    lol it sounds like the two of you are either arguing different arguments or arguing the same point.

    During calls the Treo Pro will switch to 1x. The 800w didn't. That's the difference that aero is stating, which is true and normal with the Treo Pro (and other HTC handsets). The behavior is different from the 800w but it doesn't mean there's something up with reception.

    When not in calls the Treo Pro has more of a tendency to switch to 1x when reception is poor. Data transmits at 1x speeds. This is the point that Mal is making.

    So how the phone is measuring signal may indeed have changed between the 800w and the Treo Pro, which validates aero's point. However, the switching to 1x when not in calls where other phones don't is also valid and thus validates Mal's point.

    This is my first WM Treo and I'm used to seeing the 1x/Ev switch during calls since the HTCs did this. However, it does do it more frequently than the HTCs that I've had, which could mean a number of things (some are saying worse reception). Bottom line that some are saying is it shouldn't be so quick to switch to 1x.
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