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  1.    #1  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Warm start on pro without this hack I am at about 12 seconds, and cold start one minute.
    A shame QuickGPS is not included with the Sprint Treo Pro. On my Sprint HTC Touch Pro, using its stand alone GPS I can get a position lock in seconds even off a cold start thanks to QuickGPS.
  2. #2  
    Would QuickGPS work on the Treo?
    Be sure to check out SmartDeviceResource!


    Device Timeline: Palm III → RIM 950 → RIM 957 → Tungsten W → Kyocera 7135 → Treo 600 → Treo 650 → Treo 700p → Treo 755p & 800w → Treo 755p & Pro
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by robin24k View Post
    Would QuickGPS work on the Treo?
    QuickGPS is one of the standard built in applications on the GSM Treo Pro.
  4. #4  
    Would you mind posting the CAB? Do you know if it's the same version as on HTC devices?
    Be sure to check out SmartDeviceResource!


    Device Timeline: Palm III → RIM 950 → RIM 957 → Tungsten W → Kyocera 7135 → Treo 600 → Treo 650 → Treo 700p → Treo 755p & 800w → Treo 755p & Pro
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by robin24k View Post
    Would you mind posting the CAB? Do you know if it's the same version as on HTC devices?
    I posted the QuickGPS CAB from my Sprint HTC Touch Pro here.

    I don't know if it will work for you. I'd advise you do a good backup before using it if you try it.

    The Treo 800w's GPS will not start unless it can get the system time via a compatible cell signal. The 800w does not have stand alone GPS. If you can't get a compatible cell signal, it does not matter how many sats you are in range of, the 800w's GPS won't start. The Sprint Treo Pro, Touch Pro and Touch Diamond all have stand alone GPS capability.
  6. #6  
    I got it installed, but it doesn't seem to help. GPS still slow and unreliable.
    Be sure to check out SmartDeviceResource!


    Device Timeline: Palm III → RIM 950 → RIM 957 → Tungsten W → Kyocera 7135 → Treo 600 → Treo 650 → Treo 700p → Treo 755p & 800w → Treo 755p & Pro
  7. #7  
    Ya I tried it to Robin, no dice. LOL
  8. #8  
    Darn...
    Be sure to check out SmartDeviceResource!


    Device Timeline: Palm III → RIM 950 → RIM 957 → Tungsten W → Kyocera 7135 → Treo 600 → Treo 650 → Treo 700p → Treo 755p & 800w → Treo 755p & Pro
  9.    #9  
    That cab is from my Sprint HTC Touch Pro, I've never seen a cab for it from the GSM Treo Pro, but if there is such a cab on the GSM Treo Pro it might help. (If it's at all different.) QuickGPS might be fully baked into the ROM on the GSM Treo Pro though, I don't know...

    With aGPS, 800w folks should already be getting quick GPS locks when in range of a compatible phone signal. The QuickGPS application is really a benefit when in an area where aGPS can't be used, away from all compatible phone signals, but that's a concern with devices that have stand alone GPS.

    Do you folks with 800w GPS issues have the latest PRL from Sprint? If not, ask them to send it to your 800w. If nothing helps, I guess you could see if Sprint can let you try another 800w. If it happens with 2 800ws, your only option would be to get a device that can do stand alone GPS. I don't know if the QuickGPS cab works on the Sprint Treo Pro, but the Sprint HTC Touch Pro/Diamond have QuickGPS already on them.
  10. #10  
    I loaded 60650 using QPST, but Sprint coverage here is iffy to begin with (which is why I'm on Verizon), so that's where the problem lies.
    Be sure to check out SmartDeviceResource!


    Device Timeline: Palm III → RIM 950 → RIM 957 → Tungsten W → Kyocera 7135 → Treo 600 → Treo 650 → Treo 700p → Treo 755p & 800w → Treo 755p & Pro
  11.    #11  
    The latest PRL is 60652.
  12. #12  
    Where can I get that from? It's not on the Corolada PRL page...
    Be sure to check out SmartDeviceResource!


    Device Timeline: Palm III → RIM 950 → RIM 957 → Tungsten W → Kyocera 7135 → Treo 600 → Treo 650 → Treo 700p → Treo 755p & 800w → Treo 755p & Pro
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    With aGPS, 800w folks should already be getting quick GPS locks when in range of a compatible phone signal. The QuickGPS application is really a benefit when in an area where aGPS can't be used, away from all compatible phone signals, but that's a concern with devices that have stand alone GPS.
    QuickGPS is really a intermediary form of aGPS as you need a data connection (cellular or wifi) to download a small assistance file that contains the ephemeris data, saving calculation time in advance.

    It begs the issue though: If you you need standalone GPS because you are far from a cell signal, QuickGPS won't be of much help either since you presumably need a data connection in which case (a) you are near a Wifi hotspot aka civilization or (b)you are in such a remote location where QuickGPS won't be of any assistance either since you need a cell phone signal and an active data connection.

    Basically QuickGPS just adds yet-another method to speed up standalone which is very slow to start, regardless of aGPS or GPS methods. It's really only good for when you are within cell phone signal range but the network you are on doesn't have an aGPS system deployed. Sprint has it nationally so it's not really a big deal as aGPS is still superior to standalone + QuickGPS, since you have to be on-network anyways.
    Quote Originally Posted by robin24k View Post
    I loaded 60650 using QPST, but Sprint coverage here is iffy to begin with (which is why I'm on Verizon), so that's where the problem lies.
    In which case a PRL update as minor as 60652 won't matter much for your need and neither will QuickGPS. Your phone will roam regardless of the PRL listing, which is mostly benefits the carriers as it gives preference to certain roaming partners where they have cheaper financial agreements with but it doesn't solely determine whether the phone roams or not as it will use any CDMA signal available to it.

    btw, if you do want 60652, just download it here and install it using QPST as outlined here.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 03/28/2009 at 01:12 PM.

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  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    QuickGPS is really a intermediary form of aGPS as you need a data connection (cellular or wifi) to download a small assistance file that contains the ephemeris data, saving calculation time in advance.

    It begs the issue though: If you you need standalone GPS because you are far from a cell signal, QuickGPS won't be of much help either since you presumably need a data connection in which case (a) you are near a Wifi hotspot aka civilization or (b)you are in such a remote location where QuickGPS won't be of any assistance either since you need a cell phone signal and an active data connection.

    Basically QuickGPS just adds yet-another method to speed up standalone which is very slow to start, regardless of aGPS or GPS methods. It's really only good for when you are within cell phone signal range but the network you are on doesn't have an aGPS system deployed. Sprint has it nationally so it's not really a big deal as aGPS is still superior to standalone + QuickGPS, since you have to be on-network anyways.
    Can't say I've found any respected experts in the field of GPS who have ever claimed something like QuickGPS is a form of aGPS. aGPS on the 800w and QuickGPS on my Touch Pro are not at all the same.

    The 800w's aGPS needs system time from a cell network in order to start and needs it every time you cold start the GPS. Stand alone GPS does not require anything from cell networks and acquires system time directly from the GPS sats.

    The listing provided by QuickGPS is for current sat positioning, to speed up the time to get a lock. The list is recommended to be updated about once a week.

    So while the 800w's GPS needs a cell network signal every single time it is started. My Sprint Touch Pro's stand alone GPS + QuickGPS only needs a data connection once every 7 days if I desire to have the benefits of QuickGPS, to get the latest listing of GPS sat locations. (And of course my Touch Pro also does aGPS, to provide the best of all that is available.)

    And stand alone GPS never "needs" any data signal. Nobody with a device that can do stand alone GPS "needs" QuickGPS, it does speed up the GPS lock from a cold start. aGPS in a device like the 800w does not start at all without a compatible cell signal. But the Touch Pro GPS will work no matter how long it is away from any data signals.

    I do have times I'm away from a Sprint signal or any compatible CDMA phone signals for over 7 days. I'm usually out of any data range for at most a day.

    Good thing they put the PRL Update app into the Sprint Treo Pro, so anyone wanting a PRL update won't need any additional applications to update PRL.
    Last edited by darnell; 03/28/2009 at 02:39 PM.
  15. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Can't say I've found any respected experts in the field of GPS who have ever claimed something like QuickGPS is a form of aGPS. aGPS on the 800w and QuickGPS on my Touch Pro are not at all the same.
    It's sort of simple really: QuickGPS adds "assistance" & "enhancement" (Qualcomm's terms) to standalone GPS for where aGPS systems are not fully deployed on carrier networks. It absolutely requires a data connection to work and is therefore not a standalone system, just like aGPS.

    Basically, it's an alternative to aGPS that is cheaper to deploy for network carriers. It works very well for GSM since aGPS systems have only begun to have been deployed on that standard, whereas CDMA has had it for years. So Qualcomm made gpsOne Xtra as an alternative to sell. Instead of relying on carrier-network computers/towers you rely on the an internet server to download a file. Same diff.

    And when Qualcomm calls it "gpsOneXTRA Assistance technology" and aGPS is called "assisted GPS", well it's really a battle of semantics and methodology but not function: you're assisting the GPS system by providing calculated data in advance, which speeds up the process and gives greater accuracy. That's assisted GPS. Difference here is methodology and duration, since you can download a chunkier data file than aGPS, it "lasts longer".
    Last edited by Malatesta; 03/28/2009 at 02:54 PM.

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  16.    #17  
    Again,

    Can't say I've found any respected experts in the field of GPS who have ever claimed something like QuickGPS is a form of aGPS. aGPS on the 800w and QuickGPS on my Touch Pro are not at all the same.
    Please show a respected expert in the GPS field who claims aGPS is the "same diff" as QuickGPS.

    A list downloaded and used for about a week is nothing like making cell connection every time a GPS is started.

    There is Internet based aGPS in the works. That will be very similar to aGPS. QuickGPS is more like an Update PRL in what is done. A cell phone does not need an updated PRL list to function, but it can help. A stand alone GPS device does not need an up to date list from QuickGPS, but it can help.

    I can use a Touch Pro with stand alone GPS and Quick GPS in the middle of Japan, but can't use the 800w's GPS there. After about a week, the Touch Pro will need a data connection to run QuickGPS if I still want the GPS to cold start in seconds. The 800w's GPS in Japan simply is not going to work at all any day. Not at all the same.

    As Aero has already mentioned, the Sprint Treo Pro without QuickGPS starts in about a minute. Same chip as is in the Sprint Touch Pro. With QuickGPS, that's cut down to seconds.

    My comments in this sidebar are done unless I see statements from a person respected in the GPS field who claims QuickGPS is the "same diff" as aGPS.
  17. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Again,

    Please show a respected expert in the GPS field who claims aGPS is the "same diff" as QuickGPS.
    Darnell, an appeal to authority only works so far as you actually citing anyone that contradicts what I am stating. It is also a logical fallacy here as you are relying on others to do your arguing for yourself.

    I don't need to resort to such tactics as my arguments stand on their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    A list downloaded and used for about a week is nothing like making cell connection every time a GPS is started.
    Which is why I never said QuickGPS is aGPS, rather it is just another method for speeding up the slow-to-start performance of standalone GPS. It is very similar. That is what aGPS does and what QuickGPS does.

    Look, it doesn't matter if the ephemeris assistance data comes from (1) network servers (2) internet based servers (3) is located on a file on your device, the fact is that separate ephemeris data is being used to augment and improve standalone GPS. It is assisting it!

    Your standalone system is referencing the QuickGPS file on your device for ephemeris data. My 800w contacts a cell-based server. But they are both referencing a data source to improve GPS performance.

    You can think of QuickGPS as localized aGPS since it has downloaded a weeks worth of data onto your device vs. only downloading ~8hrs worth (aGPS). That's the only difference here.
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    My comments in this sidebar are done unless I see statements from a person respected in the GPS field who claims QuickGPS is the "same diff" as aGPS.
    Likewise, if you want to play that game, show me statements from a person respected in the GPS field who claims QuickGPS is not the same as aGPS.

    Works both ways.

    Or I could just quote Qualcomm:
    Consumers can now achieve a faster “first fix” with greater GPS sensitivity than otherwise possible with standalone GPS receivers. From an Operator perspective, gpsOneXTRA Assistance allows an Operator to offer some of the benefits and performance improvements of traditional Assisted GPS (A-GPS) without the installation of a dedicated location server. gpsOneXTRA Assistance can be used at no cost on any Operator network, anywhere in the world at any time!

    Many Location-Based systems today utilize A-GPS to deliver highly reliable location functionality through the use of multiple modes of GPS operation (MS-Assisted hybrid, network fallback, MS-Based, and Standalone GPS functionality). Most of these systems are directly managed by the Operator to ensure a consistent and ubiquitous level of performance. gpsOneXTRA Assistance does not replace the capabilities of multi-mode A-GPS systems but rather acts as a “stepping stone” for Operators who have not yet deployed a complete multi-mode A-GPS architecture
    So we have GPS, aGPS (MS-Assisted hybrid, network fallback, MS-Based) and QuickGPS which is in between GPS and aGPS.

    aGPS and QuickGPS both provide ephemeris data to augment and enhance standalone GPS performance. Standalone only gets it from the sats.

    Whether you are using network time to prime, need to contact a server or a referencing a file on your device, you are assisting your GPS system to perform better. QuickGPS is not a standalone system, it is an additional service to improve standalone that simulates some of the properties of aGPS.

    Edit: and to appeal to your need for authority (), here is GpsPasSion, who refer to gpsOneXtra (QuickGPS) as aGPS--actually offline aGPS, a nice term. Happy?
    Last edited by Malatesta; 03/28/2009 at 05:42 PM.

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  18.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post

    Edit: and to appeal to your need for authority (), here is GpsPasSion, who refer to gpsOneXtra (QuickGPS) as aGPS--actually offline aGPS, a nice term. Happy?
    Yes I am .
  19. #20  
    I think the difference here is not just semantic but a matter of function since we are talking in the main here about cdma phones that work almost nowhere but the US.

    In that sense actual aGPS, versus gps augmentation is very different for the user who expects to travel.

    aGPS schemes are almost always tied to carrier networks, and at the very least alwasy tied to to carrier technology and frequency. this is an inherent limit, and especially so with if yo have a US band CDMA.

    standalone GPS augmentation though something like quickgps is not carrier dependent on handsets with wifi.

    Therefore the functional distinction between quickgps and actual agps runs from the trivial (if on a sprint phone in the US in carrier range) to the substantial (if outside the US but using your wifi on occasion).
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