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  1. chong67's Avatar
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    #41  
    Say if I buy a new phone from ebay. If I keep my receipt will Palm fix it?

    So Palm will fix your phone. Everyone agrees?

    My Pro is getting so much hotter than the 800w when I am on wmwifirouter. I could use it as a coffee warmer. With no fan blowing inside, I know it will die soon.
    Dell x51v → Motorola Q (Verizon) → Mogul → 800w → Treo Pro → Touch Pro 2 (SERO) → HTC EVO 3D → HTC EVO 4G LTE → HTC One S → Nexus 4
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    no no no. "peace of mind" is on consumer electronics is a sales pitch for high profit insurance, not a rational factor

    Your examples are WRONG
    #1:it is not $120 vs $84. it i is $120 vs $184. You forgot the $100 deductible.

    Full price is not "$599 to $699." That is a ludicrous made up number that the handsets are NEVER sold at. Please tell me a phone that costs that much!

    This is a treo pro thread. on sprint insurance, right?> so we are talking aobu the Treo Pro Srint. They are new in box, clean esn, no contract, about $250 to $325 on Ebay from reputable sellers. They will continue to drop in price.

    The only way for insurance to make sense is for people to make elementary mistakes in math and elementary mistakes in what insurance is for (catastrophic loss).
    1. True. But the $84 is a fixed cost, paid irregardless of whether I exercise to use it or not. The out of pocket cost is $100.

    2. The cost for me to go into a Sprint store and purchase a new Treo Pro is without a contract is $599, at Best Buy it's $699 (I asked before I purchased the one I have because I really didn't want to extend my contract). Whether I can work a discount with Sprint or not would depend on how "accomodating" they will be to work with a current customer. As for eBay, caveat emptor. Look at the people who are selling them. The cheapest I found one was for $319, but the seller had negative feedback for selling stolen phones with bad ESN (a Sprint Touch Pro) and would not refund the price (eve though he GUARANTEED a clean ESN). I've been buying and selling on eBay for almost 14 years, and have learned that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't. Again, caveat emptor.


    As for insurance, having it or not having it is a personal choice. If one feels more comfortable with it, then that is their choice. But don't dis someone because they express their opinion that insurance is the best choice for them.If someone looses their phone that they use for their everyday life, work, home, etc, that to them that is a catastrophic loss, wouldn't you agree?



    Last edited by ivhs72; 03/23/2009 at 02:04 PM.
    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  3. chong67's Avatar
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    #43  
    No man. I have good experience buying phone from ebay. Always pay with credit card.
    Dell x51v → Motorola Q (Verizon) → Mogul → 800w → Treo Pro → Touch Pro 2 (SERO) → HTC EVO 3D → HTC EVO 4G LTE → HTC One S → Nexus 4
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by chong67 View Post
    Say if I buy a new phone from ebay. If I keep my receipt will Palm fix it?

    So Palm will fix your phone. Everyone agrees?
    As long as it's got a clean ESN, and not stolen or reported lost, they should fix it. Will they do it for free? Depends. I can't see them fixing a two year old phone for free, but would fix it if you're willing to pay for it.

    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    I think we all learned this quite well from AIG and the million dollar bonuses
    Great point! The insurers will always find a way to get more from us...one way or another.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeP View Post
    Great point! The insurers will always find a way to get more from us...one way or another.
    Good point. The only non-profit insurance company that I know of is the federal government.


    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  7. #47  
    IVHS. I am not dissing you. I am dissing the math for the same reason consumer groups "diss" extended warranties, and the math and psychology "protecting your 'investment'", "peace of mind" do and for the same reason financial planners will tell you insuring against non catastrophic loss is a mistake.


    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    1. True. But the $84 is a fixed cost, paid irregardless of whether I exercise to use it or not. The out of pocket cost is $100.
    No the out of pocket cost is $184, plus tax on the $84, plus present value (interest on $7 accruing by $7plus interest monthly) The "out of pocket" cost is essentially $200 on a one year claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    2. The cost for me to go into a Sprint store and purchase a new Treo Pro is without a contract is $599, at Best Buy it's $699
    NO,. no, no.
    The cost to you to go buy one new is exactly maximum new customer price plus cancellation ETF. $350. That is the maximum price you ever need to pay for a Treo Pro. you can buy one at best buy and cancel the next day. for a cost of $350 That by the way is why ebay prices absolutely max at new plus ETF.

    Plus you are forgetting that for the vast majority of claimants the replacement is a refurb. refub treo pros on eBay will be maxing in the range of $200 or less in six to eight months.
    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    Look at the people who are selling them.
    I see people with 99.9 to 100% ratings.

    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    As for insurance, having it or not having it is a personal choice. If one feels more comfortable with it, then that is their choice. But don't dis someone because they express their opinion that insurance is the best choice for them.If someone looses their phone that they use for their everyday life, work, home, etc, that to them that is a catastrophic loss, wouldn't you agree?
    overpaying for $200 worth of insurance for a $200 benefit is protection against catastrophic loss?

    Yes personal choice, just like going to the track with your paycheck is personal choice. but trying to back it up as rational use of your money is not an issue of personal choice, it is a question of hard cold facts and math.

    Again these numbers of $400 or $500 for a new phone are in outer space. no new in box, clean ESN, from a 100% ebay seller costs that much.
    Last edited by aero; 03/23/2009 at 02:42 PM.
  8. #48  
    Why can't you add the insurance later? Lets say my Pro take a dip in the toilet. Couldn't I just go to my account and add the TEP and then file a claim by the end of the week?

    Also,I used to have TEP with my 700P and 800W but cancelled it about two months ago since the Pre & Pro was coming out. Turns out my charger wasn't connecting to my 800W properly so last Monday I stopped by the Sprint store. It's covered under Palms warranty but it would need to be mailed. Instead, I walked out with the Treo Pro.

    Also, I can see Assurion raising the deductible. When I did the math, $50 + $7 a month, in order for me to make the insurance worth it, I'd need a new phone every 12 months. So, I never really took care of my phones. I figure with the $100 deductible, they decided to stop people who were always loosing or destroying phones every 12 months.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Agibbs996 View Post
    Why can't you add the insurance later? Lets say my Pro take a dip in the toilet. Couldn't I just go to my account and add the TEP and then file a claim by the end of the week?
    that is why you cannot add tep later. you must buy it within 30 days and maintain it, else you cannot add it.

    there are still ways to defraud on tep, and you pay for other people's frauds if you have tep, but that is not one of the ways.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    IVHS. I am not dissing you. I am dissing the math for the same reason consumer groups "diss" extended warranties, and the math and psychology "protecting your 'investment'", "peace of mind" do and for the same reason financial planners will tell you insuring against non catastrophic loss is a mistake.


    The cost to you to go buy one new is exactly maximum new customer price plus cancellation ETF. $350. That is the maximum price you ever need to pay for a Treo Pro. you can buy one at best buy and cancel the next day. for a cost of $350 That by the way is why ebay prices absolutely max at new plus ETF.
    Why are you assuming that I would pay an ETF? I want to keep my number that I've had for years. I wanted a new number, I'd get a two year contract and pay $199, since it'd be a new line of service.

    If you walk into a Sprint store today, tell them you want to repalce your phone with a new Treo Pro, without a contract, and put your number on it, you will be told that you will have to pay $599. That is not speculation or conjecture, that is flat out fact. It is what I was told in two different stores. If you want the same deal from Best Buy, you will pay $699. I purchased my phone at Best Buy with a one year contract extension and paid $429. Yes, more than eBay, but I feel more comfortable dealing with a major chain store than I do with some faceless entity on the Internet.


    As for extended warranties/insurance, they are truly optional. But they do pay off. Like when I had to have the engine in my car replaced at 130,000 miles. It was nice to have that "extended warranty" then, rather than having to write out a check for $4500. Cost of that extended warranty was $700. Like I said, it's a personal choice based on life experiences.




    Last edited by ivhs72; 03/23/2009 at 03:41 PM.
    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Agibbs996 View Post

    Also, I can see Assurion raising the deductible. When I did the math, $50 + $7 a month, in order for me to make the insurance worth it, I'd need a new phone every 12 months. So, I never really took care of my phones. I figure with the $100 deductible, they decided to stop people who were always loosing or destroying phones every 12 months.
    They allow up to three incidents under the contract. This is what is on their site:

    The fee for the program is $7 per phone, smart device or mobile broadband card per month.

    You can have up to three approved claims for loss, theft, physical or liquid damage within any consecutive 12 months.

    A $50 nonrefundable deductible will apply for approved claims for loss, theft, physical or liquid damage claims.

    When equipment replacement claims are approved, you will receive the same or comparable equipment, of like kind and quality, with similar features as your original equipment. Replacement equipment may be refurbished, reconditioned or different from your original phone, smart device or mobile broadband card.

    You have the right to cancel your coverage at any time without penalty. If you choose to cancel, the change will be effective immediately.

    If you cancel coverage, you will not be able to reinstate this beneficial protection for your current device. However, you will have the opportunity to purchase Total Equipment Protection when you upgrade to a new device.


    As you can see they haven't updated the website yet about the new deductible. That deductible only applies for loss, damage, etc. not if the phone just quits working. There is no cost for that, save the premium on the policy.

    I feel that keeping a TEP is only effective if the cost of replacement is less than what you would have to pay out of pocket.

    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    Why are you assuming that I would pay an ETF?
    Because you can get a no strings po for $350 that way perfectly legally and legitimately and keep you old number.
    Your number of a sprint pro costing up to $500 is wrong. no one pays that. it is just a made up number. Sprint could list it for $1,000 it is meaningless. Do you think anyone paid $600 for an 800w three weeks ago?

    Why?

    Because You can walking into a best buy, get a price matched treo pro for $199, no rebates, cancel that contract an hour later, and have a brand new, warrantied, treo pro to replace your other one. you just then put it on your old line. It isn't a fraud, it isn't a problem.

    The maximum anyone ever has to pay for a treo pro is $350-....that is exactly why they will never be more than that on ebay. Where do you think the maximum of $350 on ebay from 100% feedback, clear esn new in box sprint treo pro comes from? from that arbitrage transaction ceiling.

    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    As for extended warranties/insurance, they are truly optional. But they do pay off.
    they are optional but they do not pay off. that is why consumer reports recommends against them. your anecdote on your car is is nice, if it were at all representative, and it isn't, the insurance would have cost you $7,000, not $700.

    These anecdotes are like anecdotes about people winning in vegas. It is as rational as accepting that playing craps in vegas pays, if I give an example of how I won $3500 with a $700 bet as proof.

    the math on this insurance has been done. It has been done by the insurance company. You lose, they win, otherwise they would not offer the insurance at that price.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    That deductible only applies for loss, damage, etc. not if the phone just quits working. There is no cost for that, save the premium on the policy.
    except that in the case of it just quitting working you are already covered by Palm's warranty.
  14. chong67's Avatar
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    #54  
    I still think it is a good idea to get an insurance.

    Here is why:

    $7 x 12 = $84 insurance

    Let say your phone died only, no insurance, you lost everything.

    If you got insurance, fix it by Sprint and sell the Pro for $150(at least 8 mths from now) on ebay. Take that money and get another new phone.

    Whats wrong with this idea?
    Last edited by chong67; 03/23/2009 at 04:18 PM.
    Dell x51v → Motorola Q (Verizon) → Mogul → 800w → Treo Pro → Touch Pro 2 (SERO) → HTC EVO 3D → HTC EVO 4G LTE → HTC One S → Nexus 4
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by chong67 View Post
    I still think it is a good idea to get an insurance.

    Here is why:

    $7 x 12 = $84 insurance

    Let say your phone died only, no insurance, you lost everything.

    If you got insurance, fix it by Sprint and sell the Pro for $150(at least 8 mths from now) on ebay. Take that money and get another new phone.

    Whats wrong with this idea?
    $84 in pocket trumps the potential (not real money, just maybe money) of $150 based on a low probability occurrence.

    Also, 8 months from now, Palm's 1 year warranty will still cover the Treo Pro and they'll replace it for free, more than likely with a brand new one. So using insurance you're trying to sell a refab on Ebay versus not paying insurance and potentially selling a brand new Treo Pro that will fetch more.

    The above is an excellent example of why I'm dumping Asurion. And far as the $55 Sprint repair bill goes, I'll take my changes, because so far the odds have shown dumping all the coverage plans works better for me given my history.

    Given my flash to MightyRom on my Touch Pro went well, I'm just holding the insurance for a few more weeks to drop just before the deductible increase. In case the TF3D-2 ROMs are beyond beta soon and the highly unlikely event something bad happen flashing the ROM. If the TF3D-2 ROMs are ready after I drop Asurion, I'll still flash to one of them. Likely whatever MightyMike comes up with.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Agibbs996 View Post
    Why can't you add the insurance later? Lets say my Pro take a dip in the toilet. Couldn't I just go to my account and add the TEP and then file a claim by the end of the week?

    .
    That's like wrecking your car then adding insurance afterwards. Adding home owners insurance after a tornado hits your house, etc., etc., etc. Its an insurance no no.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    except that in the case of it just quitting working you are already covered by Palm's warranty.
    What do you do after the warranty expires?


    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Because you can get a no strings po for $350 that way perfectly legally and legitimately and keep you old number.
    Your number of a sprint pro costing up to $500 is wrong. no one pays that. it is just a made up number. Sprint could list it for $1,000 it is meaningless. Do you think anyone paid $600 for an 800w three weeks ago?

    Why?

    Because You can walking into a best buy, get a price matched treo pro for $199, no rebates, cancel that contract an hour later, and have a brand new, warrantied, treo pro to replace your other one. you just then put it on your old line. It isn't a fraud, it isn't a problem.

    The maximum anyone ever has to pay for a treo pro is $350-....that is exactly why they will never be more than that on ebay. Where do you think the maximum of $350 on ebay from 100% feedback, clear esn new in box sprint treo pro comes from? from that arbitrage transaction ceiling.


    they are optional but they do not pay off. that is why consumer reports recommends against them. your anecdote on your car is is nice, if it were at all representative, and it isn't, the insurance would have cost you $7,000, not $700.

    These anecdotes are like anecdotes about people winning in vegas. It is as rational as accepting that playing craps in vegas pays, if I give an example of how I won $3500 with a $700 bet as proof.

    the math on this insurance has been done. It has been done by the insurance company. You lose, they win, otherwise they would not offer the insurance at that price.

    One person's anecdote is another person's life experience, would you not agree? Insurance companies gamble that a person will never have to use their policy that is how they make their money. When they figure wrong, they raise their rates, just like Asurion has done. It's all a numbers game. You will get better odds in Vegas, I'll give you that.

    As for pricing, this is off the Sprint website (not made-up numbers grabbed out of the air):

    New Phone & Plan Pricing
    Regular price $549.99
    Instant savings -$250.00
    Mail-in Rebate -$100.00
    New price $199.99
    Requires 2-yr Agreement

    So I was $50 off on the price. The $250 instant saving is Sprint's way of subsidizing the phone, to encourage people to buy it. They recoup that money by requiring a two year plan (only one of which is covered by Palm warranty). I'm not sure what plans are costing since I've got a $30 SERO, but I think they really pushing the $99 everything plan.

    But if you go into Best Buy, purchase a price matched phone and cancel the contract an hour later, would you not: 1) have to return the phone since a contract was a condition of sale to get that price (and Sprint would most likely cut off the service if you didn't), or 2) pay an ETF for canceling it? I purchased my phone from Best Buy and was given four options: $249 for a new line of service and two year contract, $269 for 2 year extension, $429 for a 1 year extension, or $649 for no extension. No other options.

    I went to Best Buy because the local Sprint stores weren't selling them yet. I did contact my local store where I buy from, and was told the best deal they could make me was $379 if I extended my contract, since I only qualified for a one year upgrade not a two year.
    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    BI purchased my phone from Best Buy and was given four options: $249 for a new line of service and two year contract, $269 for 2 year extension, $429 for a 1 year extension, or $649 for no extension. No other options.
    This is why the phone is not $500 as you state but much less -- in fact $350 for a new in box, no contract needed, clean ESN. (actually $300)

    Because you can go to best buy. they will price match sprint to $199. all discounts are instant. you cancel an hour later. you obviously do not have to return the phone and because you pay the etf the ESN is clean.

    You are basing your numbers on grossly inflated list prices no one pays.

    This is exactly why no phone sprint sells is ever more on ebay than $150 more than the lowest new custoemr price plus $150

    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    Insurance companies gamble that a person will never have to use their policy that is how they make their money.
    Insurance companies don't gamble. They fully understand statistics.
  20. chong67's Avatar
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    #60  
    Where on Palm page tell you on how to get the phone repaired?

    I cant find it.
    Dell x51v → Motorola Q (Verizon) → Mogul → 800w → Treo Pro → Touch Pro 2 (SERO) → HTC EVO 3D → HTC EVO 4G LTE → HTC One S → Nexus 4
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