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  1. #101  
    Agreed, but what I would like to see is a Palm WinMo device on the Pre's hardware,, just with an microsd slot.

    That would be killer. Even if they got rid of the multi touch screen. MS has devised several ways to make the current displays finger friendly.
    Devices: Blackberry 7130, 8130, 8330, HTC Touch Pro, Treo 600, 700wx, Pro, Palm Pre
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by CTL Advance View Post
    Agreed, but what I would like to see is a Palm WinMo device on the Pre's hardware,, just with an microsd slot.

    That would be killer. Even if they got rid of the multi touch screen. MS has devised several ways to make the current displays finger friendly.
    We all know that if Microsoft wants to be #1 in the mobile market, and they put their minds to it, they have the financial resources to do it.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    At the moment, the Treo Pro is the best horse Palm has running WM. With their focus on webOS, at the moment they've got nothing else new to offer WM business users. Keep in mind, Pre and that other new little one that leaked are not for serious business users, but the Treo line is. (That's what I heard Ed say himself during an earnings conference. WM for business users, webOS not yet for serious business users.) So unless Palm is planning to drop another WM Treo soon, they'd want to provide an official WM 6.5 upgrade for the Treo Pro.

    I'm sure the developer community will do it, but larger businesses are not going to make use of things created by the "developer community".
    Darnell as ctl advance noted there is the pre hardware out there. Seriously if they were really to make a play to keep a mw presence it would be easy , and potentially much more profitable to go with pre form factor on wm. I am sure they have costed it out and studied it. the only problem at all would be mixing marketing message, but I don't see it as much more of a mixed message than Palm staying with WM.

    I think people are underestimating the cost of an upgrade on existing handset . I am no expert but it looks like a large cost with lots of liabilities and potential headaches.

    First I understand they have gutted their wm division. So they got to pay HTC. HTC holds the cards in that negotiation and has conflicting interests against doing it cheaply. You have to ask what would HTC's interest in this beyond a very large fee to Palm? Additional Treo units that would in large part cannibalize HTC's own brand sales?

    Then you have the other consideration going agains tHTC interest in this; which is that now that HTC has made a 320x320 front facing qwerty, Palm may have very very little protection against HTC popping their own out at any point. HTV brand recognition, direct dealing under its own brand with carriers is only growing daily.

    Then there are the liabilities. ie what if there are bugs, glitches?

    Sprint has a more compelling set if interests toward putting 6.5 on it but they also have coast and liabilities.
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Darnell as ctl advance noted there is the pre hardware out there. Seriously if they were really to make a play to keep a mw presence it would be easy , and potentially much more profitable to go with pre form factor on wm. I am sure they have costed it out and studied it. the only problem at all would be mixing marketing message, but I don't see it as much more of a mixed message than Palm staying with WM.

    I think people are underestimating the cost of an upgrade on existing handset . I am no expert but it looks like a large cost with lots of liabilities and potential headaches.

    First I understand they have gutted their wm division. So they got to pay HTC. HTC holds the cards in that negotiation and has conflicting interests against doing it cheaply. You have to ask what would HTC's interest in this beyond a very large fee to Palm? Additional Treo units that would in large part cannibalize HTC's own brand sales?

    Then you have the other consideration going agains tHTC interest in this; which is that now that HTC has made a 320x320 front facing qwerty, Palm may have very very little protection against HTC popping their own out at any point. HTV brand recognition, direct dealing under its own brand with carriers is only growing daily.

    Then there are the liabilities. ie what if there are bugs, glitches?

    Sprint has a more compelling set if interests toward putting 6.5 on it but they also have coast and liabilities.
    They could deploy the pre form factor very easily once they get the drivers together for windows. They wont though at least not soon so they dont mess with the pre itself.

    However when windows gets their act together, installs will be like windows with all of the drivers together, also they plan to deploy software updates themselves. This will greatly drop the cost to makers / carriers as they wont have to support the os directly.
    Devices: Blackberry 7130, 8130, 8330, HTC Touch Pro, Treo 600, 700wx, Pro, Palm Pre
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by CTL Advance View Post
    Agreed, but what I would like to see is a Palm WinMo device on the Pre's hardware,, just with an microsd slot.

    That would be killer. Even if they got rid of the multi touch screen. MS has devised several ways to make the current displays finger friendly.
    I agree a WM device with the Pre design might sell well. But Palm without a WM division would have to get someone else to do it for them.

    And WM 6.5 is WAY MORE finger friendly.

    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    So they got to pay HTC.
    If guys online are able to do it alone, I think Palm could pay anyone they choose outside of HTC and still get it done. By the way MightyMike is seeking a day job.
  6. #106  
    Man if you guys can make our Pro 6.5 go for it. If you can make the Pre WM go for it, then I would retire my Pro's.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    If guys online are able to do it alone, I think Palm could pay anyone they choose outside of HTC and still get it done. By the way MightyMike is seeking a day job.
    Like pay Motorolla to use HTC's proprietary bootloader and licensed software? lol, I don't think so...

    The only reason "guys online are able to do it alone" is because HTC/MS is not suing them/issuing a Section 512--which they technically have every right to do.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Like pay Motorolla to use HTC's proprietary bootloader and licensed software? lol, I don't think so...

    The only reason "guys online are able to do it alone" is because HTC/MS is not suing them/issuing a Section 512--which they technically have every right to do.
    I can't say I've seen the documents Palm and HTC signed in their agreement. So it's possible Palm could have someone else do it or not, but that depends on documentation none of us have seen.

    If the Treo Pro is using a lock with technology HTC produced rather than Palm, it probably will be easier to crack.

    Sure HTC, MS and even Palm could threaten to sue. But prior to bringing any lawsuit, they must first notify the party to cease and any ROM cooks that get an authentic notice would cease. There's a reason that HTC, MS and Palm don't take legal action for most of what ROM cooks produce. It's the best way to get a larger pool of beta-testers. People willing to try some new software and report any bugs. If anything is cooked into a ROM too soon, the ROM cooks know to drop it the moment they get an authentic notice to.

    If Palm, HTC or MS had a real problem with the ROM cooking, TC would shut down the many threads here that provide cooked ROMs and information about them. And you know your friends at PPC Geeks tow a very hard line against things like Warez, so if the ROM cooking was a real issue, you and I know they'd kill off whole sections of that forum.

    So for more years than I recall, Palm, HTC, MS and so on could stand against it, but they don't.
  9. #109  
    And Aero, I think if Palm did approach HTC to do the job, the price would not be overly marked up. But these are just our opinions.

    Palm has provided WM updates before and I would not be at all shocked if they do it for the Treo Pro.
  10. #110  
    Given that Sprint has had to struggle with their CS image etc for some time, I feel that it would be in their interest (and that of customers) to support upgrading to 6.5 and in time version 7 for the Treo Pro (the newest version runs at something like 500MHz). As one of you said the TP is a nice phone, and at least in my hands, the best one I have ever had.....everything works well so far...adding apps is always a different question...I hope someone at Sprint does check these forums and takes our comments in a constructive direction.....
  11. #111  
    Given the battle with Apple, MS should be lending more of a hand to expand use of WM 6.5, just to fend off Apple.
  12. #112  
    Darnell, I quite agree! And perhaps one should mention Android too....at least potentially. MS should be more supportive of its current installed base and be willing to provide upgrades either free or nearly so.....at least for major upgrades.
  13. #113  
    Yea I forgot about Android.

    MS has a bit more in the way of funds, to do some of the work. The more that MS can maintain their current base of WM users it only benefits them in the long run.
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Given the battle with Apple, MS should be lending more of a hand to expand use of WM 6.5, just to fend off Apple.
    Supposedly with Win Mo 7 MS is supposed to support the OS, including updates etc. That will probably mean that they start to license the device OS to us for a fee, or maybe not. We could then purchase an update ourselves and since they are standardizing everything, it would no longer be device specific (drivers would be made available from windows update).

    However right now, MS is bleeding money from the mobile devision. So they need to launch 6.5 and then 7 Asap to generate some more income. I think that the reason it taking so long as they are trying to incorporate features to fight the iTools features. Once they get everything in place I think MS can take a bigger chunk of the market.
    Devices: Blackberry 7130, 8130, 8330, HTC Touch Pro, Treo 600, 700wx, Pro, Palm Pre
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by CTL Advance View Post

    However right now, MS is bleeding money from the mobile devision. So they need to launch 6.5 and then 7 Asap to generate some more income.
    They won't have much of a market to give/sell future versions to if they don't keep what they already have.

    My point, is that despite whatever money the mobile division of MS is losing, they have more resources (as in money to fund the effort) to provide you an update than Sprint or Palm. So long as other involved parties consent, MS could assemble a team to produce the update for the Treo Pro and whatever other devices they cared to make an update for.
  16. #116  
    I think MS would be well advised to assemble such a team and produce appropriate updates....Even if they charged a nominal fee for doing so, this gesture on their part might well be received by customers as a sign that MS recognizes that people can go elsewhere....In this economy, I doubt that even MS would ignore the importance of keeping current customers by doing something beneficial to them.....some money coming in is better than no money (or even losing customers altogether and making the loss worse!). Just my 2c
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    And Aero, I think if Palm did approach HTC to do the job, the price would not be overly marked up. But these are just our opinions.

    Palm has provided WM updates before and I would not be at all shocked if they do it for the Treo Pro.
    Darnell I think you, Mal and everyone here is making excellent points.

    But in terms of future devices I think Palm has to contend with mixed message on webOS.

    I guess i was, in my myopia, looking mainly at the idea of an official update for current owners. to me that seems like a madhouse of liabilities with no reward.
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by drfrog View Post
    I think MS would be well advised to assemble such a team and produce appropriate updates....Even if they charged a nominal fee for doing so, this gesture on their part might well be received by customers as a sign that MS recognizes that people can go elsewhere....In this economy, I doubt that even MS would ignore the importance of keeping current customers by doing something beneficial to them.....some money coming in is better than no money (or even losing customers altogether and making the loss worse!). Just my 2c
    actually, the cheapest part of this equation is the license from MS--they charge very little (and often minor upgrades are free)

    the costs come in from manufacturers who have to then modify it for a particular device, test it, etc. then rinse and repeat with the carriers (another cost)--after all of that it gets pricey.

    Apple and Palm (with webOS) will have an easier go at this since they control the software and hardware, they can do it all in house and direct to the customer. Just different business models as there are 2 iphones and hundreds of WM devices out there.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  19. #119  
    Rumors keep flying around about Microsoft coming out with their own Zune phone on the Verizon network.

    Microsoft Expected to Release Cell Phone with Verizon Next Year - X-bit labs
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    actually, the cheapest part of this equation is the license from MS--they charge very little (and often minor upgrades are free)

    the costs come in from manufacturers who have to then modify it for a particular device, test it, etc. then rinse and repeat with the carriers (another cost)--after all of that it gets pricey.
    I agree. and promulgate new internal and public documents, and train support people

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