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  1.    #1  
    I've done some research through previous posts which seem to indicate that garmin mobile XT should run without need for an internet connection (i don't have pcs vision or any other data plan). I've successfully installed it and maps and it starts up fine. When I pick the first, most simple choice ("Map") it goes to the map and shows a bar "Searching for Satellites". After a minute or so, it tries to connect to #777, then kicks out, then asks me if i want to connect to the internet (which i don't...why is why i got garmin XT on my 800W).

    Has anyone ran across this, and possibly have a solution for it? I've searched google, garmin, and here and haven't found an answer so far.

    Thanks,

    Joe
    Last edited by joseph.fox; 02/18/2009 at 08:06 AM.
  2. hofs1's Avatar
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    #2  
    Tap on Tools
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    Tap on Garmin Online Access and pick disabled.
    T300 - T600 - T650 - T700p - T755p - T800w - Pre
  3.    #3  
    I thought your response was wonderfully obvious & rushed to turn it off, but it was already disabled, so that isn't the problem.

    Does anyone else have any ideas? Sure would love to get this gps working.
  4. chong67's Avatar
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    #4  
    I thought we all know that GPS with not run with data turn on?

    No data = No GPS
    Dell x51v → Motorola Q (Verizon) → Mogul → 800w → Treo Pro → Touch Pro 2 (SERO) → HTC EVO 3D → HTC EVO 4G LTE → HTC One S → Nexus 4
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by chong67 View Post
    I thought we all know that GPS with not run with data turn on?

    No data = No GPS
    Kinda. There are two ways to get GPS without data, though both must be enabled via QPST. (In stock configuration you are correct.)

    Unless you disable aGPS however, it will keep trying to connect to Sprint's servers any time GPS is enabled.
  6.    #6  
    Thanks for that recommendation. I will try the QSPT thing when I get a chance.

    The confusion for me is that everyone seems to reference the need for the phone to connect to the "network" to get the time for the aGPS. Is that "network" the Sprint network (i.e. regular cell phone coverage network), or is it the internet?

    My phone's time gets set automatically by Spring & i don't have the internet. Why would the aGPS (using a PDA map source...garmin) need to contact the internet to get the time?

    Thanks,
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by chong67 View Post
    I thought we all know that GPS with not run with data turn on?
    No data = No GPS
    No. The GPS works FINE with no data. It won't work without a voice connection.

    The aGPS will try and get data once or twice and then not try again and will work without data fine.

    The GPS It will ALWAYS confirm a voice connection, if it doesn't get that it will fail to even start at all.

    You do not need to do a thing with QPST, and the claimed QPST changes does not do what it claims to do, it can make things WORSE.

    The calim above by someone saying that you need to go through QPST steps to enable GPS withougt date is 100% false and provable by anyone who bothers to conduct PROPER tests.

    You just completely disable your data, and you will see that the 800w will get GPS fine as long as it pulls accurate time from the NON-DATA connection.

    Not all aGPS is done by data servers. In fact the 800w Primary required GPS is a non data connection. It is a confirmation of a voice connection through accurate time assistance aGPS done without a data connection. This is settled matter -- which anyone can test..
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by joseph.fox View Post
    Thanks for that recommendation. I will try the QSPT thing when I get a chance.
    The confusion for me is that everyone seems to reference the need for the phone to connect to the "network" to get the time for the aGPS. Is that "network" the Sprint network (i.e. regular cell phone coverage network), or is it the internet?
    My phone's time gets set automatically by Spring & i don't have the internet. Why would the aGPS (using a PDA map source...garmin) need to contact the internet to get the time?
    The QPST recommendation has nothing to do with our issue, and as you understand from your last graph, is based on FLAWED and FALSE premises and testing.

    You get the time without an data connection. the time is the only requirement for your 800w aGPS only device to work.

    Your 800w can also use ip type served data for aGPS, but this is not required, the standard CDMA nonm -data connection is required. The accurate time assist is NOT served by the agps servers on Sprint, it is delivered the same way it has been delivered to dumbphones before any data option was ever available.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post

    You get the time without an data connection. the time is the only requirement for your 800w aGPS only device to work.
    Exactly. And even Palm's hack spun definition of "stand alone" GPS makes it clear.
    1. Make sure your device is outside and in an area with sufficient open space.
    2. Turn on the cellular radio (press and hold the red button) to acquire the system time from the network. This is necessary to acquire the first GPS location fix. You can do this even if you don't have a voice/data plan from a mobile service provider.
    3. Once the system time is acquired, turn off the cellular radion (press and hold the red button); it is not needed to get GPS location fix.

    The step to power on the radio to acquire system time is necessary whenever Treo 800w is reset.

    It may take as long as 8 to 10 minutes to get a fix on a satellite.
    The fact it needs that cell signal for system time is why it's an aGPS unit, not stand alone and aGPS as Palm in my opinion falsely claims, but QPST is not needed.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by joseph.fox View Post
    The confusion for me is that everyone seems to reference the need for the phone to connect to the "network" to get the time for the aGPS. Is that "network" the Sprint network (i.e. regular cell phone coverage network), or is it the internet?

    My phone's time gets set automatically by Spring & i don't have the internet. Why would the aGPS (using a PDA map source...garmin) need to contact the internet to get the time?

    Thanks,
    There's two separate things at play here.

    1) The 800w requires network time due to a bug in the firmware. Normally these devices look at the device time, but that's not the case with the 800w. This is why even with autonomous or cached mode enabled the 800w requires service (though once you have the QPST tweak done you can be on roaming and not just Sprint).



    2) By default the 800w is setup only as aGPS. Assisted GPS means that it downloads the ephemeris data from Sprint's servers.

    Even if you don't have internet it still creates a data connection because it has to download that data from Sprint (via IP). With the QPST tweak you can disable aGPS if you so desired, though you shouldn't have any problem using it.


    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    The fact it needs that cell signal for system time is why it's an aGPS unit, not stand alone and aGPS as Palm in my opinion falsely claims, but QPST is not needed.
    If that were completely true you could disable aGPS mode and use autonomous mode off network.

    Unfortunately that's not true, even with aGPS mode disabled you still need the system time. aGPS is a mode above and beyond the system time requirement. You may want to do some research on how GPSOne functions, and what the various modes mean.

    There are two things being mixed here. The system time requirement means that the 800w is aGPS regardless of the methodology used for acquiring the ephemeris data. aGPS mode (as seen in QPST or in ##gps# options) has to do with where the ephemeris data comes from, and has absolutely nothing to do with the system time requirement. Two completely separate things.
  11.    #11  
    This thread has been incredibley helpful and clarifying!!! Thanks!

    I'm fine having to be tied to the Sprint cell phone network if the aGPS will work (sans internet). If the QPST doesn't make a difference between needing internet & not needing internet, then it's beyond what I'm worried about right now.

    I've set my 800W GPS setting to COM 0 (because it is the only entry that matches the list in Garmin). The rest are "GPD" entries which Garmin doesn't show. When I hit "done" in Garmin after setting "COM 0" its searches then kicks to the "intermediate gps driver". In the map screen, it says its "searching for satellites". Is this OK?

    If it says its "searching for satellites" in the map screen, can i assume it's locked onto the 800W's internal GPS? (once or twice its said "searching for GPS", so "searching for satellites" seems like a step in the right direction).

    Thanks again!!!!!!
    Last edited by joseph.fox; 02/17/2009 at 11:02 AM.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    1) The 800w requires network time due to a bug in the firmware.
    For all we know it could be disabled at the hardware level. We know Verzion was looking at the 800w too. Verizon or even Sprint could have requested it be disabled in the hardware for all we know.

    Why it's not working is all speculation, but we know it's not working and after 7 months Palm has not provided a patch for it. Just a lame cover story.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    For all we know it could be disabled at the hardware level. We know Verzion was looking at the 800w too. Verizon or even Sprint could have requested it be disabled in the hardware for all we know.

    Why it's not working is all speculation, but we know it's not working and after 7 months Palm has not provided a patch for it. Just a lame cover story.
    All modes except aGPS are disabled at the hardware level.

    The QPST tweak allows you to reenable them.

    Even assuming that the 800w didn't need the network time as it does now, standalone still would not have functioned, because cached and autonomous modes were disabled at the hardware level (in QPST).

    There's several factors at play here which is part of the reason why it's so confusing.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post

    The fact it needs that cell signal for system time is why it's an aGPS unit, not stand alone and aGPS as Palm in my opinion falsely claims, but QPST is not needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post

    If that were completely true you could disable aGPS mode and use autonomous mode off network.

    Unfortunately that's not true, even with aGPS mode disabled you still need the system time. aGPS is a mode above and beyond the system time requirement. You may want to do some research on how GPSOne functions, and what the various modes mean.
    I'm speaking in regards to the industry respected definition of stand alone GPS versus aGPS. Needing a cell signal for system time is aGPS. A unit that can't get system time from the satellites alone is aGPS, not stand alone.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I'm speaking in regards to the industry respected definition of stand alone GPS versus aGPS. Needing a cell signal for system time is aGPS. A unit that can't get system time from the satellites alone is aGPS, not stand alone.
    At no point did I state that the 800w was a standalone unit or could be used off network. It can't.

    Your use of aGPS in your comment was confusing because you're globally calling the 800w aGPS while a very specific aGPS mode was being discussed. It also read (to me, perhaps I didn't read your statement the way you intended it) that the network time requirement was the only reason the 800w is an aGPS unit, which is not true.
  16.    #16  
    I'm fine having to be tied to the Sprint cell phone network if the aGPS will work (sans internet). If the QPST doesn't make a difference between needing internet & not needing internet, then it's beyond what I'm worried about right now.

    I've set my 800W GPS setting to COM 0 (because it is the only entry that matches the list in Garmin). The rest are "GPD" entries which Garmin doesn't show. When I hit "done" in Garmin after setting "COM 0" its searches then kicks to the "intermediate gps driver". In the map screen, it says its "searching for satellites". Is this OK?

    If it says its "searching for satellites" in the map screen, can i assume it's locked onto the 800W's internal GPS? (once or twice its said "searching for GPS", so "searching for satellites" seems like a step in the right direction).
    Last edited by joseph.fox; 02/18/2009 at 08:06 AM.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Your use of aGPS in your comment was confusing because you're globally calling the 800w aGPS while a very specific aGPS mode was being discussed.
    I never saw the OP asking about anything other than how to get the GPS to function without an Internet connection. You're talking about parsing of the term aGPS. Palm says the GPS can work with just a voice signal and no manipulating with QPST. This has been confirmed by others.

    I see no need to suggest the OP install software and make adjustments that not even Palm suggested in their own explanation of how to get the GPS radio to turn on without a data connection.

    It also read (to me, perhaps I didn't read your statement the way you intended it) that the network time requirement was the only reason the 800w is an aGPS unit, which is not true.
    The only reason it's setup the way it is, is because its an aGPS unit.
  18. hofs1's Avatar
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    #18  
    Thats how the Garmin works it uses the intermediate driver you should be fine.
    T300 - T600 - T650 - T700p - T755p - T800w - Pre
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by joseph.fox View Post
    I'm fine having to be tied to the Sprint cell phone network if the aGPS will work (sans internet). If the QPST doesn't make a difference between needing internet & not needing internet, then it's beyond what I'm worried about right now.
    You can use QPST to disable aGPS and enabled cached and autonomous modes.

    This would mean that your phone won't need to connect to Sprint's servers when a GPS connection is created, though it may increase the time as it cannot download data straight from Sprint's servers.
  20.    #20  
    I left my phone on overnight with GPS on & Garmin running in a map & "searching for satellites" I woke up with the "modem has disconnected" (no data plan) message, and I assume since it didn't get the information it was going to the internet to look for, that it probably never had a chance of finding the satellites.

    This morning, I drove to work with Garmin "searching for satellites" as well. Every 1 - 2 minutes of the 30 minute drive, it would do the "modem disconnected" thing & I'd hit "dimiss" and let it run. After 30 minutes it was still "searching for satellites" so I shut it down to go in to work.

    Does anyone know of a reason it would be trying to connect to the internet, if it only needs the network time?

    or a setting in Garmin that I might be missing?

    or a troubleshooting site for the garmin mobile xt, or a user generated set of instructions?

    Thanks!
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