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  1.    #1  
  2. #2  
    Why are you surprised? We've been saying it was true (the 800w was going to soon be EOLed) for some time now.
  3. #3  
    The real wow is:

    Palm 755P (blue) - Late May - Palm Pre (target in-stock 3/15)

    If true that's gonna kill Pro sales.
  4. #4  
    So what this means was I was right the whole time? Sprint never EOLd the 800w till now and EOL lists still exist.

    Glad we wasted an 8 page thread (and countless posts) on that topic. /lol

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  5. #5  
    Does anyone know if just 9 months with a carrier is the record?

    Sprint Treo Pro Likely to Hit January 25th, Treo 800w EOL?
    ...
    In other words, the Treo Pro for Sprint will likely replace the Treo 800w, which will now go down as the Treo with the shortest life ever.
    ...
    I think for Treos it is. For any Palm device I think it is. Is it a record for smart phones? A record for devices sold by Sprint?

    Somebody call the Guinness world record folks!
  6. #6  
    The Sprint Touch Diamond, arguably one of the most talked about devices of 2008, just got EOL'd after 10 months and 9 months for a "dud" (your words) is a big deal?

    I've said tons of times already: welcome to 2009!

    Device life will be 6-9 months from now on. It used to be 2+ years for a new WM device back in 2003-2007.

    Regardless of sales, the marketplace has changed and the consumer wins.

    (At least we got an EOL notice 7 months into the device; the Touch Diamond is only 5 months in and it got its walking papers. I suppose rationale and criteria put forth, the TD must be a "dud" too? I would disagree, suggesting that Sprint/HTC always had a replacement in the works for the Diamond and this is the normal prodcut life cycle, but what do I know!! lol.)
    Last edited by Malatesta; 02/04/2009 at 12:57 PM.

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  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    If true that's gonna kill Pro sales.
    Yes some people think the Pre will kill ipohone (we heard it before), and WM sales. Most people think it won't, it will be a very slow growth until tested and until we see responses.

    As far as Sprint, they see the Pre as a replacement for Instinct, the so called "fat middle" not upper demographic power user business WM devices market.

    There lot of pent up demand after the 800w, which looks like to be a record for the most quickly discontinued handset on Sprint.

    I hope the the Pre will do well, I will get one and if it doesn't live up to all the hype pass it to my daughter, but nothing approaching 1/10 of WM sales in the first year. Business don't commit to totally new operating systems very quickly.
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    #8  
    I remember device like the 700wx are around few quite a few years.

    I was waiting for a long time for Sprint to carry a Treo without the antenna and that would be the 800w.

    I didnt know its this quick.
    Dell x51v → Motorola Q (Verizon) → Mogul → 800w → Treo Pro → Touch Pro 2 (SERO) → HTC EVO 3D → HTC EVO 4G LTE → HTC One S → Nexus 4
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    So what this means I was right the whole time]? Sprint never EOLd the 800w till now .
    Glad we wasted an 8 page thread (and countless posts) on that topic. /lol
    I think it means for certain the people who were saying months ago that Sprint was dumping the 800w were totally correct. Was that what you were saying?

    The eol was probably decided back in November or so. We saw the clearance price hit some time ago and some were saying that meant nothing! $100 was quite a shocker.

    Clearly sprint wasn't selling the 800w and and had decided to dump it earlier than today!

    If we want to go back in time all through the late fall we had a number of users here insisting that Sprint would not pick up the Pro since they had the 800w, which was an incredible logical stretch!

    How many times did some say the lack of a press release and leaks meant something! It meant something alright, Sprint desperately needed to dump the 800w inventory.
  10. #10  
    Aero,

    "Probably" and imprecise memories are less helpful than substantive facts, so lets try to stick with those for sake of clarity.

    And if the 800w was EOLd after 9 months and the Touch Diamond is EOL after just 10 months (with no mention of in-stock for a replacement yet), what does that say about both devices and your theory of sales?

    I'll tell you: nothing

    And yes, companies lower prices on devices to clear stock so they can...wait for it...give an estimated EOL date. Diamond dropped from $249 to $199 already and it'll be at $99 in a few months, I promise. I also bet the Touch Pro gets an EOL for ~September-ish.

    If you disagree with this assessment, then for consistency you have to say that because of the rapid price drop and EOL date for the Sprint Diamond, it too is a dud with poor sales. To be consistent.

    This stuff is like clockwork yet it is met with "wow!".
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    There lot of pent up demand after the 800w, which looks like to be a record for the most quickly discontinued handset on Sprint.
    "...pent up demand"? Where? The nearly universally dead forums on the Treo Pro? There is no demand or interest for the STP. Our unboxing article has only 2 comments on Engadget Mobile and one is a professional forum troll.

    And no, it is not the record. Look at some of the samsung and sanyo handsets who had 6 month life spans, like Katana II --> LX. And even it were, or as I suspect you'll qualify with "smartphone", then it has 30 days less than the Diamond. Is 30 days significant? In my book, no.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 02/04/2009 at 01:29 PM.

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  11. #11  
    Regarding the 800w, what we know is, Palm never lauded its sales like the Centro . And again I ask, has Palm ever had a WM device with a high number of sales that was noted as such?

    The Diamond is going too, so what. (I don't really like the Diamond, other than the fact some good hacks for the Touch Pro spawned from it. I never wanted one, no MicroSD slot, lame. It should die with the dud 800w.) This is about the 800w. And if the Diamond sells and does well with Verizon, I would not be surprised if Sprint keeps selling it. So if it's about the Diamond, that Diamond might still have some legs, because Verizon may start selling them soon . (I say it should die too, but it's still got legs, unlike the 800w, but this is about the 800w, not the Diamond.)

    Has any device beat the EOL record of the 800w?
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    The Diamond is going too, so what.
    It serves as a counter-example to claims put forth about how well/poor the 800w did, that's why it is relevant as it is difficult to claim that a 9 month life-span is significantly shorter than a 10 month one. It has nothing to do with whether you like it or not, which is irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Has any device beat the EOL record of the 800w?
    Couple of questions to better answer that:
    1. Define record? i.e. how long it has to remain in place vs. current market trends
    2. Illustrate why it is important/relevant/what it actually means

    And I did answer this question above: the Sanyo Katana II came out Q3 2007 and was replaced by the Katana LX in Q2 2008, so ~8-9 months. That's one off the top of my head.

    And no, once a device is EOLd, they do not recant that because of a competitor. The reason the Diamond is EOL is because Sprint has something better coming out (Touch HD) before or at the beginning of the summer.

    Darnell, you don't see a pattern here at all? Let me illustrate:
    • GSM Diamond --> (6 months) -->CDMA Diamond --> (2 months) --> GSM Touch HD --> (6 months) --> CDMA Touch HD
    • Treo 800w --> (2 months) --> GSM Treo Pro --> (6 months) --> CDMA Treo Pro --> ? Unannounced GSM Treo Pro replacement


    To simplify: it takes ~6 months for a GSM -> CDMA conversion; around 2 months after a CDMA device is released, a newer GSM version is announced.

    In other words, ~9 month cycles for new devices; CDMA lags closely behind GSM. Companies are not replacing devices because of current sales, they are replacing current devices to stay ahead of he competition. Days are gone where a carrier waits till sales lag to replace, by then it's too late. They plan it out to keep their lineup as current as possible.

    I bet your Touch Pro will be EOL by early Fall as something better comes out at the end of summer (think Touch HD w/keyboard + WM6.5). Watch.

    Finally, my original point (and only point) was to say that until (a) we see an EOL list or (b) the device is pulled from sales, it is premature and wrong to say a device is EOL, which is exactly what you and Aero did repeatedly, despite my protests.

    End of story, I'm out.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 02/04/2009 at 03:04 PM.

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  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    And I did answer this question above: the Sanyo Katana II came out Q3 2007 and was replaced by the Katana LX in Q2 2008, so ~8-9 months. That's one off the top of my head.
    I must have missed where you mentioned that earlier...

    But thank you for answering the question. The 800w has not made the record books, just Palm's record books for the quickest to be EOLed by a carrier.

    The 800w, dud. The Touch Diamond, I feel it should die, but Verizon is picking it up. That's one more carrier than the 800w ever had. If the 800w was a sought after device, Verizon might have picked it up. If both the 800w and Diamond are duds based on short life with Sprint, fine, but the 800w is double the due the Diamond is, because the Diamond will have had 2 carriers while the 800w had just one . (If it's about being consistent than it's true the 800w is twice the dud the Diamond is.)

    I think Palm InfoCenter had it right when they stated:
    The document goes on to report that the Treo 800w will indeed reach end-of-life status in favor of the sleeker, more media-savvy Pro. With a short, unspectacular lifespan of barely six months on the market, the much-maligned 800w gains the dubious distinction of being one of Palm's shortest-lived smartphones.
    They were off by a few months, but still on point. And were correct to say 6 months in a way because the decision was made when the device was 6 months on the market.

    Aero has already explained the rational behind saying the device was EOL well enough. Given the legal liabilities associated with what many of us have found to be false advertising, Sprint would only do themselves a favor to pull all 800ws tonight.
  14. #14  
    Darnell, let me ask you this.

    If Sprint isn't moving to shorter release cycles (9-12 months)....then why are they now giving the full $150 discount at 12 months?

    That's half what they were giving previously.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Darnell, let me ask you this.

    If Sprint isn't moving to shorter release cycles (9-12 months)....then why are they now giving the full $150 discount at 12 months?

    That's half what they were giving previously.
    I'm missing where I said Sprint was not moving to shorter life cycles.

    What I've said is that the 800w is a dud. We now know why it's got Verizon images on it, but Verizon never picked it up. They looked it over and said no thanks. The 800w's short life is in part because it's a dud.

    It was right for some to say:
    ...
    The Treo Pro will reportedly replace the Treo 800w, a similar but problem-wracked Windows Mobile smartphone Sprint launched over the summer.
    ...
    Palm made a critical mistake in running with MS. Palm should have stuck to what they do best in making devices with their own OS on them. Palm's big sellers have all been Palm OS based. Unless someone can show me where Palm made a post like this for a WM device? The resources and funding put into Palm WM devices would have been better placed in more improvements on their own mobile OS till they got WebOS ready for prime time.

    A 9 month run with a single carrier (and not the largest or 2nd largest carrier either), that spells D-U-D.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I'm missing where I said Sprint was not moving to shorter life cycles.
    So then you agree that the normal lifespan of devices is moving to 9-12 months.


    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    A 9 month run with a single carrier (and not the largest or 2nd largest carrier either), that spells D-U-D.
    Got it. Normal lifespan = dud.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    So what this means was I was right the whole time? Sprint never EOLd the 800w till now and EOL lists still exist.

    Glad we wasted an 8 page thread (and countless posts) on that topic. /lol

    No, reread the thread again, I was right the entire time.

    It is no surprise the 800 is dead to many of us. It takes a few longer to grasp the concept that the 800 was so bad Sprint is waving goodbye to it after 7-8 months. If saying 7-9 months is normal then whatever floats your boat. However winners stick around they don't get cancelled. Like mentioned the 700wx stuck around for years. The 800 should have never been released. It was 2 years, most would have waited a few months longer for the Treo Pro.



    I find
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    No, reread the thread again, I was right the entire time.
    Not about what EOL actually means and when it applies, which is what I'm talking about. I'm not sure what you were right about even after re-reading.
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    It is no surprise the 800 is dead to many of us.
    I don't think this is relevant for this topic/opinion
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    It takes a few longer to grasp the concept that the 800 was so bad Sprint is waving goodbye to it after 7-8 months. If saying 7-9 months is normal then whatever floats your boat. However winners stick around they don't get cancelled. Like mentioned the 700wx stuck around for years.
    My point (again): No device will be on Sprint for "years" anymore. None. Touch? Gone in 11 months. Diamond? Gone in 10 months. 800w? Gone in 9 months (forgetting that it was pushed back 6 months too)

    It's a different time Vibrant, not 2007 anymore. Device replacements (even for your Touch Pro) will be roughly every 8-11 months. Are you prepared to call every device that is replaced in < 1 years time a dud, oblivious to actual sales numbers?

    I'm just really confused by all of this. Years ago, Sprint couldn't put devices out fast enough and people complained. Now they are pumping out as fast as they can and....people complain. Makes no sense. Device refreshes, new hardware, new OS features...this is GOOD news, why are you guys spinning like it's a bad thing? So should Sprint NOT release the Treo Pro because of this thread?

    Your Touch Pro? Old and dated. Now 5mp cameras are a reality; Snapdragon chipset is now out with 1ghz processor; capacitive touch screen; Wimax; Higher resolution LCDs; BT 2.1; OLEDs, Gyroscopes....none of this is your Touch Pro. Yet you WILL have most of that in a 2009 Sprint phone. That is awesome and doesn't mean the Touch Pro was a bad phone.
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    The 800 should have never been released. It was 2 years, most would have waited a few months longer for the Treo Pro.
    I don't think this is relevant for this topic/opinion
    Last edited by Malatesta; 02/04/2009 at 07:18 PM.

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  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Darnell, let me ask you this.
    If Sprint isn't moving to shorter release cycles (9-12 months)....then why are they now giving the full $150 discount at 12 months?
    That's half what they were giving previously.
    We know why. Because Sprint, of the majors wiht ATT and Verizon has:
    • - the worst churn and highest number of customer losses per period
    • -The lowest numbers of customers
    • -The lowest market share
    • -The worst demographics of the customer they have in revenue per costumer


    So they have a new program are offering a small number of their best customers -- the customers most likely to go to ATT and Verizon -- a somewhat increased discount system.

    Also, please do do the math. It is not half the time period or double the discount in reality. It much less since in reality you get new customer pricing every two years which is considerably more than the Rebate.
    That is why people paid $200 to $250 for a $600 phone when buying the 800w.

    Offering discounts out of desperation is has nothing to do with the cadence of phone releases. Sprint has ALWAYS had a huge mixed bag of discounts!

    That being said Mal is correct in that phone releases, like all consumer electronics, are shortening in release and lifetime cadence. But a dumping and discontinuation of a phone in 8 to 10 months total life is rare and will continue to be rare.

    to see a clearance price for a phone in January that was released in July is stunning. If you think tha tis going to be the case with most phones over the next few years you would be wrong.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Not about what EOL actually means and when it applies, which is what I'm talking about. I'm not sure what you were right about even after re-reading.

    I don't think this is relevant for this topic/opinion

    My point (again): No device will be on Sprint for "years" anymore. None. Touch? Gone in 11 months. Diamond? Gone in 10 months. 800w? Gone in 9 months (forgetting that it was pushed back 6 months too)

    It's a different time Vibrant, not 2007 anymore. Device replacements (even for your Touch Pro) will be roughly every 8-11 months. Are you prepared to call every device that is replaced in < 1 years time a dud, oblivious to actual sales numbers?

    I'm just really confused by all of this. Years ago, Sprint couldn't put devices out fast enough and people complained. Now they are pumping out as fast as they can and....people complain. Makes no sense. Device refreshes, new hardware, new OS features...this is GOOD news, why are you guys spinning like it's a bad thing? So should Sprint NOT release the Treo Pro because of this thread?

    Your Touch Pro? Old and dated. Now 5mp cameras are a reality; Snapdragon chipset is now out with 1ghz processor; capacitive touch screen; Wimax; Higher resolution LCDs; BT 2.1; OLEDs, Gyroscopes....none of this is your Touch Pro. Yet you WILL have most of that in a 2009 Sprint phone. That is awesome and doesn't mean the Touch Pro was a bad phone.

    I don't think this is relevant for this topic/opinion
    Even if the Touch Pro was EOL'd tomorrow it would have sold tens of thousands more than the 800.

    Of course turning devices over is a good thing but in the 800's case it was doomed from the carriers let alone customers. Verizon would have not passed up on a winner. You cannot throw money away in business. Nobody is spinning it into a bad thing.

    What people are trying to explain is it's EOL'd, it has a crappy muffled earpiece (you can attest), the worst battery life of any device, no standalone GPS, I can go on and on (you've heard them all). It was flawed from the factory and neither Ebag or yourself can fix it. These are the reasons why it's gone. We all know you love it.

    (edited by berd)
    Last edited by berdinkerdickle; 02/05/2009 at 01:30 AM.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
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