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  1.    #1  
    First, this is not intended to be another "let's bash stuff" thread. This is an honest review of the PRACTICAL pros/cons of each device from someone who has used both. I had a Pro on AT&T, but had to switch to Sprint last month due to personal reasons. Again, this is not an AT&T vs. Sprint thread, but just a factual discussion of Pro vs. 800w and my observations. Of course, since the actual CDMA Treo Pro has not been released, it is possible a few of my observations will turn out to not be applicable.


    Size

    Pro is a clear winner here, as it is thinner and lighter.

    Feel

    This is personal preference. The Pro is more slippery and easier to lose a grip. Plus it holds fingerprints like you wouldn't believe. However, it does look "sexier".

    Battery

    Treo Pro clearly has a larger battery, which is a definite advantage. However, as someone who charges my phone nightly anyway, I rarely have found the 800w to be an issue. One thing to note is that both the standard 800w battety and the Seidio extended version appear to improve greatly after 3-6 charging cycles.


    Keyboard

    I'm guessing this will be a major decision point point for many and they are definitely different, but personal preference. The Pro is more like a centro, but not quite as cramped. The keys are "geletinous" and not as distinct. People who use fingernails to type may prefer the Pro KB. Those with large thumbs who use thumbs to type will likely prefer the 800w, as it is larger and more spread out with distinct keys and a click "feel".

    Buttons

    Here, I find that 800w to be a clear winner. The decision to not include the 2softkeys on the Pro seems to have been an asthetic design decision, since there appears to be room. While, the Pro's flush screen makes the softkeys non-essential, I missed them anyway, since I didn't always want to tap the screen. I did prefer the 800w placement and feel of the Wi-Fi button. The Pro's wi-fi button had no give and was difficult to push.

    Screen

    The flush screen is a definite win for the Pro. While less "protected" it improved the look, feel, and "touch" usability of the device. Made the stylus even less important than it already is. In terms of screen quality I actually thought the Pro was a little better in terms of being less "washed out", but it was close and not a big deal.

    Phone

    Ignoring differences in ATT vs. Sprint, they were both good call quality. The speaker is good on both for listening to music or podcasts without earphones. However, I thought the side placement of the Pro's speakerphone made for better quality speakerphone.

    Bluetooth

    Excellent for both. They both have Palm patches to download and assuming you did that, I'd call it even.

    LED

    A clear winner for the 800w. The LED on th Pro is only for charging and is unusable for notifications. The "breathing light" around the center button is almost impossible to see in the daytime.

    SD Card Acess

    Prefer the 800w, as cover does not need to be removed.


    Build Quailty

    Excellent for both. I dropped both several times onto concreate, and they hold up like tanks. No cracks, scratches, etc... I know some had issues with the cracks on the Pro, but mine was just fine.

    Soft Reset Access

    Winner for the Pro. There is no "soft reset" on the 800w. Must remove the battery. On the Pro, I quickly learned how to acces the softreset under the stylus without removing the door.

    Lockups/Freezes

    Even. As WM 6.1 PRO phones, they both have occasional freezes, usually caused by too many 3rd party apps. At first I thought the 800w was unstable in its cradle each night, until I pinned down the conflict to TreoLED on the Treo Alerts app. I changed it to use NLED and now it is just fine.

    Support

    First, I believe this is a non-issue from a carrier support standpoint. Many people use many phones no longer sold for several years. Who cares? Now one clear advantage of the Pro as a GSM HTC device, was XDA-developer forum support. However, the 800w has the support of some great minds llike Ebag and Hannip, who narrow the gap greatly and make it a much more minor issue.

    Stylus

    This is personal preference. Top right on 800w vs. bottom on Pro. The Pro's stylus is too short IMO, but the platic feel of the 800w stylus is annoying to me. I fixed that with a 3rd party metal stylus/pem combo.

    Palm Tweaks

    The one thing the Pro had that I liked was that the "option+" shortcut functionality could be pressed then let go and then press the 2nd button. Other Treos including the 800w, require pressing both button simultaneously, which is less one handed friendly. Other Palm tweaks go to the 800w. I missed the Palm voicemail buttons and dial lookup screen on the Pro. Palm SMS is no big deal, since it can be ported. Maybe the voicemail buttons and lookup can be ported when the experts get a Pro.

    Camera

    Even, except that there seems to be a bug on the Pro that makes it harder to take photos with less light. You can "force the sensor to fix itself" by pointing at a bright object like a lamp and then going back to your lower light subject, but is was annoying. The Sprint version may very well not have this bug.

    Headset Jack

    Clear winner for the Pro. 3.5mm jack is great. If you always use AD2P, this may not matter, but I hate all earbuds and there is no stereo wired adapter option on the 800w. Boo to Palm for that design decision. At least the HTC proprietary phones have adapters available.

    GPS

    This has been a very hot topic. There has been much ado made about stand alone vs. Sprint network assisted GPS. In my actual experience, the practical difference is zero. The Sprint 800w is not locked down to Telenav, so unless you are in an area with no signal at all, it doesn't really matter. I used Garmin XT on both. I'd even say that after using Ebag's GPS hack on QPST, the 800w was better. However, I'm assuming the same hack could be used with the CDMA Treo Pro, so GPS is even for practical purposes.

    I'm sure I'm missing something, so feel free to ask questions, but let me reiterate:

    - No interest in making this a negative thread or a Palm Pre thread or a GSM/CDMA or carrier thread. Also, no OS debates. It is strictly Treo Pro vs. 800w and the factual differences.

    - As you can see, I believe there are advantages and disadvantages to each device and it will come down to preference.

    - Bigger decison points for most will likely be

    1) Keyboard preference. Please try typing on both, as this will be a major consideration for many people.

    2) 3.5mm jack vs. extra 2 softkeys - which is most important to you

    3) Look and feel - is it important for a thinner lighter device or do you prefer a less slippery device with no fingerprints?

    4) Battery - Pro has longer battery, but those who charge anyway like me, this is a not a huge issue.

    5) Flush vs. recessed screen - most prefer flush, but recessed it a bit more protected.

    Again, I'm not advocating one vs. the other - just letting everyone know the practical differences from someone having used both extensively.

    Please let's keep this thread positive and informative and not a war!











































    Lockups/Freezes









    - Longer battery life
    - Flush screen
    Daniel Levin
    levinda13@sbcglobal.net
  2. #2  
    Great comparison! Thanks

    My office is next door to a friend who has a Pro on ATT so I also have spent considerable time with the Pro and agree with most everything you said.

    The one thing that you dont talk about is performance. Both my friend and I agree that the 800w has a snappier processor and does most things a bit quicker. Whats your experience been?
    Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad
    R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
  3. #3  
    I've not used the Pro so I can't say much about it, but you're pretty much dead on about the 800W. After my learning curve of switching from the 700p, I'm generally pleased with the phone. The battery has not been an issue for me since I charge every night. I definitely miss the headphone jack and agree with you on the two handed option button press. Is there a hack to work around this? Otherwise I wouldn't change a thing about the phone.
  4. #4  
    I have used both, in fact at the same time for three weeks specifically to do comparison.

    I have a lot of specific notes on comparison but will hold of writing my own thread comparing them on CDMA since the CDMA version is coming on the 21st for some and the Jan 25 for everyone. Palm may have a slightly different casing on the CDMA Pro, it may for all we know bust standalone GSP on the CDMA Pro. Battery life on t he CDMA pro will be better, thant he 800w, we jsut don't know how much better

    Battery life: This is the biggest and universal complaint on the Treo 800w, even by users who see no other faults at all. Not just and advantage for the Pro but a distinct one. Sure one has to alter habits going from "P" series Palms or some other smartphones but given the extreme power draw possibilities of the features actual capaicty is very important for some people.

    30% more available capacity with the Pro is a serious benefit for people who wish to use the features

    Whether I worried if it was 6pm and had work or external meetings or a 90 minute train ride and had a lot to do on the commute, and had to kept my 800w vs Pro tethered and charging during the first part of the day was a huge difference. Of you have 10 or 15% left vs 45% left with which to work is important to some people.

    GPS working as advertised: Important for some but unimportant to others such as yourself. I am one of the people who bought the 800w with an eye to that, and 50% of Pre prospective buyers/interested potential customers think the present of standalone is important. I would say 100% of them think of it as some advantage considering it brings no overhead.

    Size. the fact that the Pro is 50% thinner is a serious issue.

    Flush screen on the Pro. There is a functional reason why everyone is going to this form factor.

    Call/sound quality: The pro is hands down winner. the difference is not subjective in my view but clear and consistency better on the Pro. The speakerphone espeically is night and day smakdown by the Pro

    LED
    A clear winner for the 800w. The LED on th Pro is only for charging and is unusable for notifications. The "breathing light" around the center button is almost impossible to see in the daytime.
    LED: I would say I strongly prefer the Pro LED and for me it is a clear winner.

    The LED for the 800w and Pro is only for charging and not for notifications out of the box. there are workarounds for both to make it otherwise.

    Support: The Pro on CDMA nd GSM is more likely to have a bigger user base. This increases the likelihood of support from both from users as well as HTC and Palm.

    Resale Value: New model phones resell for more. Phones with identical features, but on one handset tied to the network and one not have some degree of higher value. I fyou are thinking of getting a Pre after it sahkles out in late sumer I htink there is no doubt you will get a fair amount more for a Pro CDMA than an 800w CDMA on the secondary market (eg ebay). the secondary market is important because carrier discounts are quantum. (One year somewhat, two years for full discount)
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    I have used both, in fact at the same time for three weeks specifically to do comparison.

    I have a lot of specific notes on comparison but will hold of writing my own thread comparing them on CDMA since the CDMA version is coming on the 21st for some and the Jan 25 for everyone. Palm may have a slightly different casing on the CDMA Pro, it may for all we know bust standalone GSP on the CDMA Pro. Battery life on t he CDMA pro will be better, thant he 800w, we jsut don't know how much better

    Battery life: This is the biggest and universal complaint on the Treo 800w, even by users who see no other faults at all. Not just and advantage for the Pro but a distinct one. Sure one has to alter habits going from "P" series Palms or some other smartphones but given the extreme power draw possibilities of the features actual capaicty is very important for some people.

    30% more available capacity with the Pro is a serious benefit for people who wish to use the features

    Whether I worried if it was 6pm and had work or external meetings or a 90 minute train ride and had a lot to do on the commute, and had to kept my 800w vs Pro tethered and charging during the first part of the day was a huge difference. Of you have 10 or 15% left vs 45% left with which to work is important to some people.

    GPS working as advertised: Important for some but unimportant to others such as yourself. I am one of the people who bought the 800w with an eye to that, and 50% of Pre prospective buyers/interested potential customers think the present of standalone is important. I would say 100% of them think of it as some advantage considering it brings no overhead.

    Size. the fact that the Pro is 50% thinner is a serious issue.

    Flush screen on the Pro. There is a functional reason why everyone is going to this form factor.

    Call/sound quality: The pro is hands down winner. the difference is not subjective in my view but clear and consistency better on the Pro. The speakerphone espeically is night and day smakdown by the Pro



    LED: I would say I strongly prefer the Pro LED and for me it is a clear winner.

    The LED for the 800w and Pro is only for charging and not for notifications out of the box. there are workarounds for both to make it otherwise.

    Support: The Pro on CDMA nd GSM is more likely to have a bigger user base. This increases the likelihood of support from both from users as well as HTC and Palm.

    Resale Value: New model phones resell for more. Phones with identical features, but on one handset tied to the network and one not have some degree of higher value. I fyou are thinking of getting a Pre after it sahkles out in late sumer I htink there is no doubt you will get a fair amount more for a Pro CDMA than an 800w CDMA on the secondary market (eg ebay). the secondary market is important because carrier discounts are quantum. (One year somewhat, two years for full discount)
    Great review. You're very right about the sound quality, battery life and resale value. Can't wait for the 25th.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by levinda View Post
    Keyboard

    I'm guessing this will be a major decision point point for many and they are definitely different, but personal preference. The Pro is more like a centro, but not quite as cramped. The keys are "geletinous" and not as distinct. People who use fingernails to type may prefer the Pro KB. Those with large thumbs who use thumbs to type will likely prefer the 800w, as it is larger and more spread out with distinct keys and a click "feel".


    This is the deal breaker for me. Those "squishy" keys literally make my skin crawl. I guess maybe I'm just weird that way. I really would like a flush screen though, but I can handle recessed far easier than I can handle "booger" keys.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by SandersJC1964 View Post
    This is the deal breaker for me. Those "squishy" keys literally make my skin crawl. I guess maybe I'm just weird that way. I really would like a flush screen though, but I can handle recessed far easier than I can handle "booger" keys.
    What do you think then of the Pre keys? They are much closer to the "booger" keys then the old style 800w keys.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    What do you think then of the Pre keys? They are much closer to the "booger" keys then the old style 800w keys.

    I know. I was looking at them and started thinking that I either need to get some counseling or forget about the Pre. I guess whenever it comes out and they have some in the store I'll see how they feel. I should have a few months to resolve my issues.
  9. #9  
    Good review and agree with your points. I myself had a Treo Pro for a week to play with. I actually like the keyboard. I use my thumb tips so the wider keys were better for me. The Pro also is better looking, thinner, better earpiece quality and has better battery life. To me the Pro is an upgrade from the 800.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  10. #10  
    Thanks for the review, it was very informative.
    I use my 800w for business - email, contacts, calendar, tasks and internet and I type many emails a day, some really long. I don't carry my laptop much anymore so I am curious how I am going to like the Pro keyboard. My kids have Centro's and I cannot type on that keyboard, it seems so much smaller than the 800w. I have not held a Pro yet but plan to give a good test when it comes out.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimh2000 View Post
    My kids have Centro's and I cannot type on that keyboard, it seems so much smaller than the 800w. I have not held a Pro yet but plan to give a good test when it comes out.
    No one can speak for you. everyone has preference, but I can say from experience, switching back and forth maybe your issue.

    After using the Pro as main device for a week the 800w keyboard drove me nuts.

    With either the pro or the pre, both of which have smaller keyboards and different action than the 80w, you would need a week sold to get used to it, just like it may have taken you a week to get used to your first treo.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    No one can speak for you. everyone has preference, but I can say from experience, switching back and forth maybe your issue.

    After using the Pro as main device for a week the 800w keyboard drove me nuts.

    With either the pro or the pre, both of which have smaller keyboards and different action than the 80w, you would need a week sold to get used to it, just like it may have taken you a week to get used to your first treo.
    I agree it may take a bit, I like to completely switch over and give the new phone at least 2 weeks. I like the 800w, so if the Pro is better, that will be awesome. I have my order in with my local Sprint store manager so I should get it on Day 1 or before. I swore I wasnt't going to try the phones 1st day out but I guess I am a gadget junkie...oh well.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimh2000 View Post
    I agree it may take a bit, I like to completely switch over and give the new phone at least 2 weeks. I like the 800w, so if the Pro is better, that will be awesome. I have my order in with my local Sprint store manager so I should get it on Day 1 or before. I swore I wasnt't going to try the phones 1st day out but I guess I am a gadget junkie...oh well.
    Trust me. If you can stand the 800w you will love the Treo Pro. The earpiece clarity, the speakerphone clarity, the 30% larger battery, the touchscreen, the working GPS, the 30% smaller size and the overall lack of bugs make all the difference in the world.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Trust me. If you can stand the 800w you will love the Treo Pro. The earpiece clarity, the speakerphone clarity, the 30% larger battery, the touchscreen, the working GPS, the 30% smaller size and the overall lack of bugs make all the difference in the world.
    Oh man, I am sick...I need it now, stop taunting me.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Trust me. If you can stand the 800w you will love the Treo Pro. The earpiece clarity, the speakerphone clarity, the 30% larger battery, the touchscreen, the working GPS, the 30% smaller size and the overall lack of bugs make all the difference in the world.

    Daily Dose
    Sprint 600 - 650 - 755 - Mogul - 700Wx - Centro - 800W & iPhone
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimh2000 View Post
    Oh man, I am sick...I need it now, stop taunting me.
    You and everyone else. Better get to the store early on the 25th.
  17. #17  
    What about processor speed? Is there a big difference in speed between the two?

    You mentioned that the sound quality on the 800 was good but my 800 was terrible. How about the Pro. Is the speaker any good?
  18. #18  
    I can answer that.

    The processor speed some say is slower. Look both are snappy, even if the Pro was slower it maybe milliseconds. No biggie. This isn't a deal breaker for anyone. I found it to be snappy.

    I never got to use the speaker with a phone call since it was the GSM model. I inserted my memory card and listened to tunes while I played with it. In this case it's fantastic.

    The earpiece quality is terrible on the 800, this is true. The Treo Pro does not suffer from the low volume and sometimes muffled sound.

    Since we are in the 800 forum many will not agree with this statement but the Treo Pro is an upgrade to the 800. In fact the Treo Pro should have been released instead of the 800. The bugs and problems most of us experienced with the 800 are non-existant on the Treo Pro. I believe if the Treo Pro were released in July Palm would be trucking along pretty nicely. The 800 has hurt Palm's reputation to the point were everyone including Palm wants it gone.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    I believe if the Treo Pro were released in July Palm would be trucking along pretty nicely. The 800 has hurt Palm's reputation to the point were everyone including Palm wants it gone.
    Had Palm secured any large scale GSM deals for the Treo Pro, they may be doing a bit better but a Sprint Treo Pro certainly would not result in them "trucking along pretty nicely". WM was nothing but a lifeline for Palm, not a way to financial success.

    As far as the 800w hurting their reputation, I see no evidence of that--it may have hurt your opinion of them, but that is different. The 700w on Verizon garnered more animosity in the blogosphere than the 800w so far.

    The 800w, along with the Pro are facing ambivalence in today's world--they just not exciting devices compared to the competition. And if palm wanted it gone, they would pull it or bury it on their website.

    Re: being slower
    , the Treo Pro is benchmarked lower than the 800w which is quite curious--why a 400mhz processor does worse than a 333mhz is not expected. The only explanations are (1) 800w's OS is optimized more (aks Palm tweaks) or (2) that Qualcomm processor is not so hot (or a combo of both). It'll be interesting to see the CDMA version of the the Pro in comparison:



    Last edited by Malatesta; 01/13/2009 at 05:09 PM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Triple xXx View Post
    What about processor speed? Is there a big difference in speed between the two?

    You mentioned that the sound quality on the 800 was good but my 800 was terrible. How about the Pro. Is the speaker any good?
    I could not really tell a difference in speed between the two devices. I'm a power user with many apps loaded and running simultaneously, so both devices eventually had a few freezes and lockups.

    I would say the speaker on the 800w gets an 8/10 for music/podcast playback and a 4/10 for speakerphone use. I'd give the Pro 7/10 for music/podcast playback and 9/10 for speakerphone use.
    Daniel Levin
    levinda13@sbcglobal.net
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