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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Correct on all counts.
    Guessing on all counts.

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  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    The Treo Pro boards will be slammed soon and the 800 forum will be a ghost town with the exception of a few.
    You really think so? I have to disagree. (Even the 700wx board is still very active here).

    How many 800w users renewed their contracts to get that phone at the lower price? I'd bet a lot since many were coming from the 700wx.

    With just 6 months difference, how many 800w users do you really think are going to drop $549 on a new phone which, lets face it, is just a mild hardware refresh? Do you really think Sprint is going to allow tons of 800w users to "trade in" their 800ws for a new phone--for what, a 6 month contract extension? There's no incentive for them to do so. None.

    And with the Pre right around the corner, you don't think that will have a chilling effect on the Treo Pro?

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  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    You really think so? I have to disagree. (Even the 700wx board is still very active here).

    How many 800w users renewed their contracts to get that phone at the lower price? I'd bet a lot since many were coming from the 700wx.

    With just 6 months difference, how many 800w users do you really think are going to drop $549 on a new phone which, lets face it, is just a mild hardware refresh? Do you really think Sprint is going to allow tons of 800w users to "trade in" their 800ws for a new phone--for what, a 6 month contract extension? There's no incentive for them to do so. None.

    And with the Pre right around the corner, you don't think that will have a chilling effect on the Treo Pro?
    I agree. The 700wx boards have 53 viewing right now and the 800 boards have 65. I even browse the 700wx boards since I have one as a beat down back up device. Those boards are active because they sold a crap load in 3+ years both on Verizon, Sprint and there a crap load still active amazingly (now that's quality).

    If I remember correctly you paid full price for your 800 and you're not alone. There will be many who will pay full price. There will also be those who negotiate deals to get it for much much less, those who are within their 30 days who will try to exchange, those who threaten to leave Sprint, those who will buy off eBay, those who will sell their current device to fund the new one, you know the drill. People get creative when a new device is released so they can have the latest. The Treo Pro will be no exception. If this one is a dud in sales like the 800 then Palm is really done. Their whopping list of WM devices is incredibly sad.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    With just 6 months difference, how many 800w users do you really think are going to drop $549 on a new phone which, lets face it, is just a mild hardware refresh? Do you really think Sprint is going to allow tons of 800w users to "trade in" their 800ws for a new phone--for what, a 6 month contract extension? There's no incentive for them to do so. None.
    A BB complaint has netted everyone who made one an offer for replacement of invoiced costs so it is not 549.

    For most buyers whose net cost was $100 to $200 this means a $350 buyout from Palm. For buyers who bought it unsubsidized it is a full buyout.

    Alternatives:
    1) BBB complaint buyout at subsidized price (you keep rebate) for $350 cash and you return an up to six month old used phone. cost $200
    2) Sale on Ebay for (IO am guessing $150 to $200 used?): Cost $350 to $400
    3) formal and followed protest on GPS with Sprint. this will net some amount from $150 discount on new handset to full replacement

    Notes:
    a) I don't think anyone who had no use or potential use for standalone GPS should do this

    I also don't think there are "tons" of 800w users. I think it is possible it was a limited minimum production which could have been finished in June before the first 800w was sold to customers.

    While we are rationalizing release vs fcc dates there is a very simple rational that has been overlooked. Here is one theory that could explain all of it: Palm had a certain minimum production number contracted to the CM. The parallel team on the Pro was moving forward while the 800w lagged. Verizon dumped the 800w. Palm was now holding a promise to buy a certain minimum. Palm took the lowest production purchase minimum option from the CM for the 800w, offered the 800w to Sprint for cheap. They kept moving on the Pro and Spritn and Palm agreed that as sprint sold down to 20 to 10% of the small 800w production they would roll the Pro out.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    A BB complaint has netted everyone who made one an offer for replacement of invoiced costs so it is not 549.

    For most buyers whose net cost was $100 to $200 this means a $350 buyout from Palm. For buyers who bought it unsubsidized it is a full buyout.

    Alternatives:
    1) BBB complaint buyout at subsidized price (you keep rebate) for $350 cash and you return an up to six month old used phone. cost $200
    2) Sale on Ebay for (IO am guessing $150 to $200 used?): Cost $350 to $400
    3) formal and followed protest on GPS with Sprint. this will net some amount from $150 discount on new handset to full replacement

    Notes:
    a) I don't think anyone who had no use or potential use for standalone GPS should do this

    I also don't think there are "tons" of 800w users. I think it is possible it was a limited minimum production which could have been finished in June before the first 800w was sold to customers.

    While we are rationalizing release vs fcc dates there is a very simple rational that has been overlooked. Here is one theory that could explain all of it: Palm had a certain minimum production number contracted to the CM. The parallel team on the Pro was moving forward while the 800w lagged. Verizon dumped the 800w. Palm was now holding a promise to buy a certain minimum. Palm took the lowest production purchase minimum option from the CM for the 800w, offered the 800w to Sprint for cheap. They kept moving on the Pro and Spritn and Palm agreed that as sprint sold down to 20 to 10% of the small 800w production they would roll the Pro out.
    Great facts.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Great facts.
    The last graph is a hypothesis, but I think better lex parsimoniae than other theories.
  7. #47  
    Aero, with all due respect...most people are not going to do any of what you suggested.

    Just like they don't send in mail-in rebates.

    Your average person who buys a smartphone is not some geek who drools over every new device, especially when it is a hardware refresh. Forcing people to jump through hoops is not going to get them to a new device.

    Once again: if you like the 800w, you won't go out of your way for a Treo Pro; if you don't like your 800w you already moved on. A few will try to get a deal from Sprint, but that'll be a small group.

    There is little to no interest in this phone. Just look at the lack of coverage.

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  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    There is little to no interest in this phone. Just look at the lack of coverage.
    There is an obvious much more interest by Palm and Sprint in the Pro relative to the 800w.

    Given the demonstrable carrier and maker lack of interest in the 800w, (Verizon zero interest, Sprint interest for a few months, Palm for a few months) I don't know how we are saying the little interest in the Pro when the experts, the people who make and sell them, and know the sales numbers, show more interest in the Pro than the 800W?

    The 800w got interest here but was blown out by the iphone. So unless you mean the 800w got very little interest, we could easily say there was less interest in the 800w it was swamped by the iphone in the genral news as well
  9. #49  
    I'm saying with news sites, tech sites, no mention at CES, etc. It's not news.

    And when they are carried, reading the comments are not very positive.

    Look, the Treo Pro is not doing well for Palm. It has no market penetration, no major carriers are selling it and it's just not popular. Even in the forum here it's not doing so hot.

    Sprint is literally its last chance to find a home. Verizon passed (never even looked, evidently) AT&T passed and T-Mobile never cared. It's like the anti-Centro.

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  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I'm saying with news sites, tech sites, no mention at CES, etc. It's not news.

    And when they are carried, reading the comments are not very positive.

    Look, the Treo Pro is not doing well for Palm. It has no market penetration, no major carriers are selling it and it's just not popular. Even in the forum here it's not doing so hot.

    Sprint is literally its last chance to find a home. Verizon passed (never even looked, evidently) AT&T passed and T-Mobile never cared. It's like the anti-Centro.
    You think Sprint was offered the Pre before Verizon!?! Verison and ATT have much bigger footprints (net subscribers and market share), faster growth, and higher demographics (ARPU) than Sprint.

    Are you saying you think Sprint would have been palms first choice to the dance for the Pre!?!

    Also the Pro has other forms. It is on HTC dedicated forums - elsewhere.

    And when they are carried, reading the comments are not very positive.
    Except in all professional and user reviews which are quite positive, especially compared to the 800w.

    The facts speak for themselves. Sprint and Palm like the Pro better! We had many posters denying the Pro would be released on CDMA,a dn some of use felt strongly it would because of problems with the 800w. It is pretty much a settled matter.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Are you saying you think Sprint would have been palms first choice to the dance for the Pre!?!
    I'm not sure why the Pre has come up, but okay.

    Yes, Sprint was Palm's first choice. They always are. Palm has launched every major phone (except 700w--blessing actually) on Sprint. They have a very good relationship. Verizon and Palm? Not so much. Same with AT&T.

    Sprint needed a "killer" phone to compete with iPhone and Storm...so yeah, Palm was it. I think it's also why they held off on Android--give Palm some breathing room.
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Also the Pro has other forms. It is on HTC dedicated forums - elsewhere.
    It's dead at XDA. PPCGeeks doesn't even have a forum for it. Where else?
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Sprint and Palm like the Pro better!
    But evidently Verizon, AT&T and T-Mobile don't think so. Unlike the Centro. The Treo Pro has no market traction. That's a fact. Who else has launched it? It's been months now and no one else. If it's such a great device, so in demand, why such little fanfare?
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    We had many posters denying the Pro would be released on CDMA,a dn some of use felt strongly it would because of problems with the 800w. It is pretty much a settled matter.
    What does that have to do with anything?

    It's wise to assume a phone is not coming out on a carrier when there is only circumstantial evidence available. That's just logic, not blind faith.

    Seeing as the Treo Pro hit the FCC so early, it's my contention that Sprint had always planned to release it, regardless of the 800w sales. It's a newer, sleeker device. No mystery.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 01/14/2009 at 09:48 PM.

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  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Are you saying you think Sprint would have been palms first choice to the dance for the Pre!?!
    Sprint and Palm are well known for working together.

    Sprint got the 650 before anyone else. They had the option of the 700w, and passed (though they did get the 700wx before Verizon).

    If you look at the history, Sprint is clearly one of Palm's favorites for new phones. In fact there was just recently an article that talked about how Palm has Sprint sewn up and in their pocket.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Aero, with all due respect...most people are not going to do any of what you suggested.

    Just like they don't send in mail-in rebates.

    Your average person who buys a smartphone is not some geek who drools over every new device, especially when it is a hardware refresh. Forcing people to jump through hoops is not going to get them to a new device.

    Once again: if you like the 800w, you won't go out of your way for a Treo Pro; if you don't like your 800w you already moved on. A few will try to get a deal from Sprint, but that'll be a small group.

    There is little to no interest in this phone. Just look at the lack of coverage.
    I have an 800W, am somewhat geeky and don't plan to upgrade to the Pro for several reasons:
    -not enough of an upgrade to spend $500 (only improvements to me are the headphone jack and longer battery life)
    -don't want to go to a smaller screen and keyboard
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by mwrob View Post
    I have an 800W, am somewhat geeky and don't plan to upgrade to the Pro for several reasons:
    -not enough of an upgrade to spend $500 (only improvements to me are the headphone jack and longer battery life)
    -don't want to go to a smaller screen and keyboard
    But for many people, the upgrade is free. Big difference.
  15.    #55  
    Well, I guess everyone ignored my original posting where I said this thread should be non-argumentative and positive only.
    Daniel Levin
    levinda13@sbcglobal.net
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I'm not sure why the Pre has come up, but okay.
    Because you mentioned the amount of coverage of the Pro when everyone has been focused on the pre, commentators, press and Palm's own marketing department.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Yes, Sprint was Palm's first choice. They always are. Palm has launched every major phone (except 700w--blessing actually) on Sprint. They have a very good relationship. Verizon and Palm? Not so much. Same with AT&T.
    I doubt Sprint was palms first choice. That is like saying the ugly girl is your or my first choice. It is more rational to understand it as the remaining choice out of better alternatives companies that don't wish to engage Palm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    But evidently Verizon, AT&T and T-Mobile don't think so. Unlike the Centro. The Treo Pro has no market traction. That's a fact. Who else has launched it? It's been months now and no one else. If it's such a great device, so in demand, why such little fanfare?
    The point being the Pro has more "traction" than the 800w. Sprint and Palm think it does.

    From my reading of the FCC dates I think that problems wiht the 800w drove it had a shorter lifespan than expected.

    I see zero unusual with the Pro FCC dates other than the extensions. The extensions are easily explained by the problems with the 800w which if the 800w was a market dog, and failed to sell a short production run as quickly as expected, they needed to wait until it 800w back stock dropped.

    Palm and Sprint probably knew they had a problem device in the 800w in June.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    If you look at the history, Sprint is clearly one of Palm's favorites for new phones. In fact there was just recently an article that talked about how Palm has Sprint sewn up and in their pocket.
    Mutual desperation does not equal first choice, it equals choice by necessity.

    Don't take that to mean a slam on the announced and not yet delivered Pro and Pre CDMA, but rather the history, brand problems and financial condition of both Palm and Sprint which are objective trash compared to their competitors
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    The point being the Pro has more "traction" than the 800w. Sprint and Palm think it does.

    From my reading of the FCC dates I think that problems wiht the 800w drove it had a shorter lifespan than expected.

    I see zero unusual with the Pro FCC dates other than the extensions. The extensions are easily explained by the problems with the 800w which if the 800w was a market dog, and failed to sell a short production run as quickly as expected, they needed to wait until it 800w back stock dropped.

    Palm and Sprint probably knew they had a problem device in the 800w in June.
    Good point. They must have committed early and then got stuck holding the bill. I wonder if Verizon had a different agreement that allowed them to dump the 800w when they found too many problems with it? I guess we'll see if they decide to pick up the Treo Pro.
  19. chong67's Avatar
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    #59  
    I chat alot on my 800w using Agile Messenger.

    I read on frontpage that the Pro comes with Yahoo, AOL and MSN chat program.

    Is it 3 programs in one or 3 separate running programs?

    Is there any screenshot?

    Made by Palm?

    Please tell me more if you know.

    Thanks!
  20. #60  
    Actually Chong, your 800w has the same AOL/Yahoo/MSN program bundled with it. I use the Yahoo portion regularly. It's one running program: OZ Instant Messaging.

    In regards to the Pro, I plan on doing as much *****ing as humanly possible as well as flirting with the gay manager at my local sprint store to try to swap out of the 800w for a Pro. I don't use headphones at all and will probably miss the hard softkey buttons and probably won't like the smaller keyboard. Truthfully, spec/feature wise, I have no real good reason for trying to switch out. I just want the newest Treo and it's alot sexier. I just hope I'm not sacrificing functionality, assuming I'm successful.
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