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  1.    #21  
    [QUOTE=Malatesta;1542971]

    The 700w on Verizon garnered more animosity in the blogosphere than the 800w so far.

    QUOTE]

    Ughh! The 700w on Verizon with 32 MB RAM. I had one. I couldn't keep more than 2 apps open at a time and I constantly had to use a FreeUp RAM utility. Those were the bad old days.

    Then Palm added insult to injury by releasing the 700wx in sprint (same but with 64 MB RAM). Good for them learning from their mistake, but annoying for me. I did end up getting Verizon to replace my 700w with a 700wx free of charge eventually.
    Daniel Levin
    levinda13@sbcglobal.net
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by rc46 View Post
    Great comparison! Thanks

    My office is next door to a friend who has a Pro on ATT so I also have spent considerable time with the Pro and agree with most everything you said.

    The one thing that you dont talk about is performance. Both my friend and I agree that the 800w has a snappier processor and does most things a bit quicker. Whats your experience been?
    Honesty, I never keep my devices in an "out-of-box" state long enoug to tell a difference. With both the Pro and 800w loaded up with apps, and many running simulataneously, I'd say the speed was basically even as were the usual occasional WM Professional freezes.
    Daniel Levin
    levinda13@sbcglobal.net
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    I have used both, in fact at the same time for three weeks specifically to do comparison.



    Call/sound quality: The pro is hands down winner. the difference is not subjective in my view but clear and consistency better on the Pro. The speakerphone espeically is night and day smakdown by the Pro

    I agree about the speakerphone. However, for music/podcasts, the 800w is quite good and actually I'd say slightly better than the Pro. However, the speakerphone usage is significantly better on the Pro.

    I still say the call quality seemed even to me.



    LED: I would say I strongly prefer the Pro LED and for me it is a clear winner.

    The LED for the 800w and Pro is only for charging and not for notifications out of the box. there are workarounds for both to make it otherwise.

    I don't understand your statement. Yes they are both only for charging out of the box, but Treo Alerts makes the 800w a fully functional notification LED. AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $there$ $is$ $no$ $such$ $workaround$ $for$ $the$ $Pro$. $Palm$ $did$ $not$ $include$ $the$ $standard$ $APIs$ $and$ $even$ $Hannip$/$Zbop$ $have$ $not$ $yet$ $figured$ $out$ $how$ $to$ $make$ $the$ $LED$ $work$. $You$ $can$ $hack$ $the$ $breathing$ $center$ $light$ $on$ $the$ $Pro$, $but$ $that$ $is$ $basically$ $useless$ $in$ $daytime$.
    What do you find to be good about the Pro's LED?

    Support: The Pro on CDMA nd GSM is more likely to have a bigger user base. This increases the likelihood of support from both from users as well as HTC and Palm.

    True

    Resale Value: New model phones resell for more. Phones with identical features, but on one handset tied to the network and one not have some degree of higher value. I fyou are thinking of getting a Pre after it sahkles out in late sumer I htink there is no doubt you will get a fair amount more for a Pro CDMA than an 800w CDMA on the secondary market (eg ebay). the secondary market is important because carrier discounts are quantum. (One year somewhat, two years for full discount)
    Yes, if resale value is critical, obviously the Pro will be better.
    Last edited by levinda; 01/13/2009 at 05:25 PM. Reason: Formatting
    Daniel Levin
    levinda13@sbcglobal.net
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    I can answer that.

    The processor speed some say is slower. Look both are snappy, even if the Pro was slower it maybe milliseconds. No biggie. This isn't a deal breaker for anyone. I found it to be snappy.

    I never got to use the speaker with a phone call since it was the GSM model. I inserted my memory card and listened to tunes while I played with it. In this case it's fantastic.

    The earpiece quality is terrible on the 800, this is true. The Treo Pro does not suffer from the low volume and sometimes muffled sound.

    Since we are in the 800 forum many will not agree with this statement but the Treo Pro is an upgrade to the 800. In fact the Treo Pro should have been released instead of the 800. The bugs and problems most of us experienced with the 800 are non-existant on the Treo Pro. I believe if the Treo Pro were released in July Palm would be trucking along pretty nicely. The 800 has hurt Palm's reputation to the point were everyone including Palm wants it gone.

    I never did see what was so wrong with the 800? Of course I want the Pro because it is considered and upgraded phone. The USB headphones, the sound quality were downers for me with the 800 but all in all I did not think that it was a bad phone.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    The earpiece quality is terrible on the 800, this is true. The Treo Pro does not suffer from the low volume and sometimes muffled sound.
    At one point I would have very much agreed with you (and it still holds true for a stock phone).

    Coming from the 650 and 700wx (both of which I considered "acceptable but not great" for sound quality), the 800w was definitely worse than either. Mostly because it was far too quiet and if you increased the sound volume the quality dropped.

    I hadn't used the Mrs 700wx after the sound volume tweak until last night. Wow, what a difference. Previously the 800w was far worse than the 700wx, now it's significantly louder and clearer.

    I haven't tried a Pro so I can't compare there, but with the volume tweak the 800w is really completely different (as far as the volume goes).


    That's all in reference to voice call quality. For MP3 quality, the 800w wins hands down, though again it suffers from the low volume (which the volume tweak definitely helps).
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Had Palm secured any large scale GSM deals for the Treo Pro, they may be doing a bit better but a Sprint Treo Pro certainly would not result in them "trucking along pretty nicely". WM was nothing but a lifeline for Palm, not a way to financial success.

    As far as the 800w hurting their reputation, I see no evidence of that--it may have hurt your opinion of them, but that is different. The 700w on Verizon garnered more animosity in the blogosphere than the 800w so far.

    The 800w, along with the Pro are facing ambivalence in today's world--they just not exciting devices compared to the competition. And if palm wanted it gone, they would pull it or bury it on their website.

    Re: being slower
    , the Treo Pro is benchmarked lower than the 800w which is quite curious--why a 400mhz processor does worse than a 333mhz is not expected. The only explanations are (1) 800w's OS is optimized more (aks Palm tweaks) or (2) that Qualcomm processor is not so hot (or a combo of both). It'll be interesting to see the CDMA version of the the Pro in comparison:
    Although many of us love statistics I wonder what the 39 CPU index between the two translate into time. Is the 800 39 seconds snappier or 3.9 seconds snappier? I'm guessing the snappyness we all talk about between the 800 and Treo Pro is less than 2 seconds. Is it safe to say that? Probably less I assume. Who knows why a 400 processor is slower than a 333. You and many include that its the drivers. I don't know so I will agree. My point is, who cares. We ALL don't buy devices on CPU index. Nobody goes into a Sprint store to measure before they buy. Although its cool to see the Touch Pro on top to me I could care less.

    As far as Palm doing better with Treo Pro if the 800 had never been released I feel is correct. I doubt Verizon would have passed it up. A CDMA version with both Verizon and Sprint carrying the device would have helped Palm without a doubt (no brainer). The GSM version was just floundering out there without a carrier. That hurt them. The 800 I still feel hurt Palm. Many can agree the 700wx was much more stable (on sale for 3+ years). Many have moved away from the 800 (9 for sale on eBay under $239 brand new). When GM launched the Pontiac Fiero they though it was hit, poor quality, warranty work and 3 years later cancelled. You can say the same for the 800. You don't cancel a winner.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    Although many of us love statistics I wonder what the 39 CPU index between the two translate into time.
    I dunno, but obviously it's enough that people noticed without statistics. WM has never been known to be a zippy OS, so every little bit helps in this regard. No different in telling people to turn off TF3D to gain more speed.
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    My point is, who cares. We ALL don't buy devices on CPU index. Nobody goes into a Sprint store to measure before they buy.
    Well, that's not really for you and I to decide, but rather the buyer.

    After all someone here did ask the question and that's the answer: both on paper and in real life, the GSM Treo Pro is slower than the 800w. Whether that holds for the CDMA version is not known.

    Also, I think I could say "who cares" about a lot of the "issues" with the 800w (battery size, no standalone GPS, lack of flush screen, no 3.5 mm headset, etc.) but that's not necessarily a legit stance to take--it might matter to some people, might not for others.

    So a lot of these differences/issues are relative. Something I've been hammering away here for a long time. You and nsxprime downplay the speed/performance issues because it's not important to yourselves and that's fine, but it is a signficant difference for some out there comparing the two, especially since the results are counter-intutivive (i.e. faster processor is slower).

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    So a lot of these differences/issues are relative. Something I've been hammering away here for a long time. You and nsxprime downplay the speed/performance issues because it's not important to yourselves and that's fine, but it is a signficant difference for some out there comparing the two, especially since the results are counter-intutivive (i.e. faster processor is slower).
    Same way you and Ebag downplay the battery issues, poor earpiece quality (actually Ebag is coming around to this one), no standalone and bugs which are not important to yourselves. People can compare the two and that is fair. I feel because of the 800 issues listed above the Treo Pro will be an upgrade. For now the Treo Pro will claim top spot on Palm's extremely short list of WM devices as the 800 disappears into the night. There will be no 3+ year run like the 700wx has shown. I wouldn't say it was a very productive 6 month run or it would not be on the replacement list. I just can't wait until I see many of the faithfull bragging about their HTC Treo Pro's.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    Same way you and Ebag downplay the battery issues, poor earpiece quality (actually Ebag is coming around to this one), no standalone and bugs which are not important to yourselves.
    At most you can say that I've stated that the majority of changes between the Pro and 800w are a personal choice. I've said that about design, the slightly different form factor, soft touch vs shiny, recessed vs flat screen, etc etc etc.

    1) I've always said that the battery life was a significant issue, though I (and the majority of people that were polled) found it lasted 8+ hours, which is the minimum acceptable number for most people.

    2) I've always said that the earpiece is far too quiet. I haven't had any crackling issues (aside from the bug where the volume is set wrong after a soft reset), so I did not comment on that one way or the other. If I didn't think that the low volume level was an issue, why would I spend hours working on it?

    3) Never said standalone wasn't broken (quite the opposite). I have said that to the majority of users off-network GPS is not a major issue, which I believe is still true (look at the millions if not billions of phone sales that either have no GPS, or aGPS only). If I didn't think that standalone wasn't broken, why would I spend days upon days working on it?

    4) Please name off the other bugs that I think are "not important". I've done my level best to include every bug that is an actual bug in the bug list (no, I'm not including the cheap stylus or small battery in there ). Where appropriate I've given workaround and fixes for them. I've worked extremely diligently on correcting every bug that is within my power to correct (and quite a few that I was pretty sure from the start I could do nothing about).


    You want to claim I don't care about the bugs and other issues? I got a whole list in the FAQ that says otherwise.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    Same way you and Ebag downplay the battery issues, poor earpiece quality (actually Ebag is coming around to this one), no standalone and bugs which are not important to yourselves. People can compare the two and that is fair. I feel because of the 800 issues listed above the Treo Pro will be an upgrade. For now the Treo Pro will claim top spot on Palm's extremely short list of WM devices as the 800 disappears into the night. There will be no 3+ year run like the 700wx has shown. I wouldn't say it was a very productive 6 month run or it would not be on the replacement list. I just can't wait until I see many of the faithfull bragging about their HTC Treo Pro's.
    Well said. There really is a world of difference between the Treo Pro and the 800w. Anyone who doesn't believe that just needs to ask Sprint and Verizon. They've each made their feelings very well known.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Well said. There really is a world of difference between the Treo Pro and the 800w. Anyone who doesn't believe that just needs to ask Sprint and Verizon. They've each made their feelings very well known.
    Correct. Sprint by carrying both, and Verizon by carrying neither.

    Poor 700wx users.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Anyone who doesn't believe that just needs to ask Sprint and Verizon. They've each made their feelings very well known.
    lol, what's Verizion's "feelings" on crippling all their devices, ruining their HTC lineup and dumping the Touch Diamond?

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  13. #33  
    What did Sprint and Verizon say?
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    What did Sprint and Verizon say?
    (Puts down cup of coffee and looks around suspiciously)

    Well I've heard that Verizon caught Palm cheating with Sprint after the dance last week. Verizon was so like "we are totally through" and he threw his 800w back in her face.

    Then I heard Verizon ditched on HTC, something about her Diamond being too "loose" with the rest of the football team (Diamond has apparently been with everyone, if you catch my drift)

    I caught up Verizon and asked about his "feelings" but Verizon is a cold-hearted and acted all cool, like nothing was wrong. He then threw his arm around Omnia, said something about making her popular and going "all the way". Then he flipped off HTC.

    Good news though, I asked Sprint about his "feelings" and he said he wants to marry Palm! OMG, I bet she's pregnant...maybe twins!

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  15. #35  
    The only reason I asked is, when I read things on these forums, though I know not to believe everything.
    I still have come to trust the info here.

    So when nsxprime says:
    "Anyone who doesn't believe that just needs to ask Sprint and Verizon. They've each made their feelings very well known"

    I wondered 'What did Sprint and Verizon say?'

    Did Sprint and Verizon say they were mad at Palm?
    Just call me Berd.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    (Puts down cup of coffee and looks around suspiciously)
    Mal, after reading that....




    < < Edited by Dieter > >
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post

    I wondered 'What did Sprint and Verizon say?'

    Did Sprint and Verizon say they were mad at Palm?
    In short: no

    Neither company has ever publicly or privately (to our knowledge) commented on Palm or the 800w.

    There's a lot of projection, speculation and just plain ol' misinformation 'round here these days.

    It's like negative viral marketing.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  18. #38  
    It is only negative because the 800 has Verizon splash screens installed on it. Looks to be slated for Verizon so why did they refuse to carry it? The rumor is beta testing did not go very well and Verizon passed. I believe that is what nsxprime is referring to. Guess it doesn't matter because Sprint is done with it as well. The Treo Pro boards will be slammed soon and the 800 forum will be a ghost town with the exception of a few.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  19. #39  
    Great comparison!
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    It is only negative because the 800 has Verizon splash screens installed on it. Looks to be slated for Verizon so why did they refuse to carry it? The rumor is beta testing did not go very well and Verizon passed. I believe that is what nsxprime is referring to. Guess it doesn't matter because Sprint is done with it as well. The Treo Pro boards will be slammed soon and the 800 forum will be a ghost town with the exception of a few.
    Correct on all counts.
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