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  1. insol's Avatar
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       #1  
    Since the traffic here seems to be dying down (or should I say shifting to the Pre forum). I thought I would post something. I think the Pro still wins for me (eagerly waiting on Sprint & the 25th). I am kinda excited about the Pre, because it looks very cool and it seems Palm put everything in it (read: did seemingly everything right), but for me I have three issues:

    1. Comfort with my existing apps: Having been/being a software developer, I really understand some of the limitations that Palm will have (or had.. again remains to be seen) to deal with in regards to HTML, JSJSJS, $CSS$ $as$ $the$ $development$ $languages$. $Consider$ $security$ $alone$, $not$ $to$ $mention$ $other$ $HW$ $related$ $features$ ($think$ $gaming$). $Having$ $a$ $robust$ $and$ $potentially$ $low$ $level$ $environment$ $and$ $libraries$ $is$ $really$ $necessary$ $in$ $order$ $to$ $get$ $the$ $range$ $of$ $application$ $diversity$ $available$ $on$ $the$ $iPhone$, $WM$, $or$ $even$ $POS$. $May$ $not$ $a$ $show$ $stopper$, $but$ $I$ $suspect$ $getting$ $a$ $large$ $range$ $of$ $apps$ $here$ $will$ $simply$ $take$ $a$ $bit$ $of$ $time$.

    2. I have gone the route of sliders (HTC Tilt) and touch screens only (HTC Touch) -- I want the keyboard on the front and waiting for me to use it. Those two experiences really convinced me I want a 1 handed with front facing keyboard, I have to have it.

    3. Battery life -- potentially a real deal killer (it was with my Touch, besides the lack of a keyboard). I would imagine the Pre's bigger screen to require more power -- I can barely get through the day with my 800w (couldn't make it with the Touch). Now I know this depends on usage, but I find myself very conscious of the device and the features I use and for how long. One of the things I first noticed when I got on Sprints $99 everything plan (came from a 2500 min VZ plan w/3000 texts and unlim data) was that I stopped thinking about minutes, who was calling, how long I was talking, what services I was using etc. It was really pretty liberating! With my inadequate 800w battery life, I find myself doing essentially the same thing, albeit for a different limitation: power, not cost. With my 800w, I am concerned with how long I have been talking or using data or how long I have been using/had on bluetooth and/or GPS (god forbid I have data bluetooth and GPS all on at the same time -- and I fear extended use of WiFi for the same reason). I also frequently think about when and how I can charge my phone. I understand I could get an extended or use more than one battery, but then whats the point in a small form factor to begin with? The Pre's battery life hopefully will be much better.

    maybe there is a #4 reason... Did I mention cases for sliders? I am not a big fan of pocket cases, instead preferring full time protection. Pocket case sprotect the phone when I am carrying it around, but I mean when I am pulling it out and using it is the time I am most likely to drop it or bang it against something...

    I am usually an early adopter... but I am going to get into the Pro and wait the Pre out a bit.
    Last edited by insol; 01/11/2009 at 01:36 PM.
  2. #2  
    From what I've read, the Pre isn't ready for prime time and won't have 3rd party apps for a very long time. At least I can use my Pro, now.
  3. #3  
    I plan on getting the pro on the 25th..upgrading from my 755p

    Then switch to the Pre when that comes out...only if it works on sero

    All in all, I am done with Palm os...either move to Nova or WinMo (still devoted to palm due to the one handed keyboard
  4. #4  
    The Pre battery is 1200mah and you can use your Centro/800w battery too.

    WebOS was built for mobile devices using today's technology in mind. According to Palm, it was built around being power-efficient. What that actually means remains to be seen of course, but there is good reason to believe it will be "smarter' than Garnet and WM in this regard.

    Pandora built an app for WebOS in 3 days.

    Developers will have full access to the phone's hardware and integration with the core OS. All of that should tell you that development on this platform could be very rapid.

    Read "developer speaks out on Palm WebOS" for more info.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  5. doctj's Avatar
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    #5  
    I bought my treo pro a couple of weeks ago and will use it for at least 2 yrs unless it's damaged. It's a great device even with WM 6.1. That'll give Palm enough time for a decent software library and work out the kinks with the Pre and other webOS devices before I jump in.
  6. #6  
    I will remain with my Pro b/c I have alread bought enough software for Windows Mobile that it becomes a real estate (I lots so much in software I bought with Palm OS 1 after so many yrs of been a POS user),

    So to begin buying sidegrades not for now for me. The WebOS looks awesome no doubts, but I'll stick w/WM6.1 for now and my Treo Pro.
  7. #7  
    I've had the Pro for several months & it's pretty well customized for my needs -- both apps & eye candy. And, yes, it's unlocked GSM. So, there are several factors in staying with the Pro.

    1) Lot's of software & customizing options for the Pro, none yet for the Pre. Especially some of the specialty stuff I use. Although Pre looks very usable out of the box.

    2) GSM is a world standard, CDMA is more limited in where it can be used. And I think I'd rather see the Pre on Verizon, if I were going to buy a CDMA version, for better coverage. But I'd really rather wait for a quad band GSM, tri band HSDPA version.

    3) I'm a heavy user of all the features on my Pro & I have a spare battery for it. Even with my heavy usage, I've never had to switch batteries before I've been able to get home for an overnight recharge. The Pre is at best questionable on battery life.

    I tend to be an early adaptor , but only if the reasons are compelling. If I were already a Sprint customer or hadn't just bought a Pro, the Pre might be more compelling. But, as things stand, I'll wait for a GSM version & more Pre stuff in the Palm app store.

    I do want to add that the Pre looks like one of the best (if not, in fact, THE best) 1.0 phones I've seen.
  8. insol's Avatar
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       #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    The Pre battery is 1200mah and you can use your Centro/800w battery too.
    1200 mah... yow. For my usage that will be low unless Palm has some SERIOUS power management aware hardware. Regardless of the OS and CPU power mangement, just having the various radios on will be a drain, not to mention the larger screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Pandora built an app for WebOS in 3 days.
    Certainly a good sign. I'd be interested in seeing what they actually developed. Was it a full implementation of a Pandora client, including stream playing? Even this could be quite simple as all the heavy lifting can be done server side, assuming the device has codecs and an relatively open media player or by using existing developed web-based clients. Building "an" app in 3 days may or may not be impressive relative to the development environment/platform/tools.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Developers will have full access to the phone's hardware and integration with the core OS. All of that should tell you that development on this platform could be very rapid.
    Mal, I think you said it here. "Development on this platform could be very rapid." However the devil is always in the details and right now we just don't know. The idea that developers will have full access to the phone's hardware and integration with the core OS can be both a blessing and a curse, particularly using this development technology (I am thinking mostly about javascript here). The implication is that something from websites could potentially more easily compromise my phone or create instability. The other side of this argument is that the device/OS tightly controls what programs can and cannot do; particularly those apps accessed/delivered from outside the phone. I am not bashing here... just noting that applications based on web development technologies have different issues compared to tradition desktop-compiled apps. It will be interesting to see.

    I did look into the Mojo MVC framework. It seems it is a Perl-based framework... Interesting choice, MVC is definitely one of the wave of future design patterns (Perl or not) and Perl is certainly robust with a WHOLE lotta developers out there. AND it may allow compiled apps...

    While I hold to my original 3/4 issues and battery life still reigns supreme (for me) -- I have to say Palm's clear and thoughtful development of the Pre does not seem to have missed many steps.

    I'm still getting the Pro though. I may get a Pre by Decemberish, if these issues are not issues at that time.
    Last edited by insol; 01/11/2009 at 08:42 PM.
  9. insol's Avatar
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       #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by kraski View Post
    I've had the Pro for several months & it's pretty well customized for my needs -- both apps & eye candy. And, yes, it's unlocked GSM. So, there are several factors in staying with the Pro.

    1) Lot's of software & customizing options for the Pro, none yet for the Pre. Especially some of the specialty stuff I use. Although Pre looks very usable out of the box.

    2) GSM is a world standard, CDMA is more limited in where it can be used. And I think I'd rather see the Pre on Verizon, if I were going to buy a CDMA version, for better coverage. But I'd really rather wait for a quad band GSM, tri band HSDPA version.

    3) I'm a heavy user of all the features on my Pro & I have a spare battery for it. Even with my heavy usage, I've never had to switch batteries before I've been able to get home for an overnight recharge. The Pre is at best questionable on battery life.

    I tend to be an early adaptor , but only if the reasons are compelling. If I were already a Sprint customer or hadn't just bought a Pro, the Pre might be more compelling. But, as things stand, I'll wait for a GSM version & more Pre stuff in the Palm app store.

    I do want to add that the Pre looks like one of the best (if not, in fact, THE best) 1.0 phones I've seen.
    My sentiments exactly. I suspect there will be quite a few people in this camp. And OMG! I am so with you on the looks and features of the Pre. Even the shape (curved like your face) seems to have gotten proper and adequate consideration -- Palm nailed it. However, I believe The Pre is definitely targeted at iPhone-style users and that is a big consumer base (read: smart business move on Palm's part). I should mention that I find it funny that all the iPhone snobs can finally shop at Walmart with the rest of us. The iPhone, to me, is for everyday (read: general purpose) phone users, for the most part. And it does a good job of that. The Pre will as well, perhaps even better. Just not for me, at least not right now.
    Last edited by insol; 01/11/2009 at 07:31 PM.
  10. insol's Avatar
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       #10  
    I think I have #5. The Pre has forgone the notion of sync and save... instead relying on cloud-based applications/domains/storage. This feature: "Synergy" explicitly assumes a cloud-based storage reality. I REALLY don't like this. Unlike most people, I have grave concerns for cloud-based approaches. Even beyond privacy, the implicit lock-in of cloud apps is downright frightening for me.

    Yah Yah I know computing technology is a commodity now and cloud based apps are stable, and connectivity is nearly everywhere... yah yah... Problem with the commodity/utility argument is that unlike other "utilities" computing creates a new item (in data) that has more value in aggregate than it does individually. Cloud providers implicitly will have access to not only your data but others as well. The aggregate use of this data by a service provider, which seldom violates licensing terms (I would go further to ask any of you... when was the last time you read a license agreement fully, before using a cloud service?) can be far more useful and leverageable than the data in isolation -- think Google ads in your gmail and now think of where much of Google's revenue comes from or what they could choose to know, if they wished, from your e-mail data.

    I am derailing my own thread here with that discussion, but it is at the heart of my #5 reason not to Pre. It seems the Pre removes my ability to choose not to participate in the cloud. I could be overreacting, but I am anxious and skeptical of all things cloud. Oh I should mention again ummm -- battery life? You can read more details on the Pre's syncing/saving approach here:

    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...-the-cord.html

    I should now change the title of this thread to "But I don't have to Pre!"
    Last edited by insol; 01/11/2009 at 08:41 PM.
  11. #11  
    No need to change the name of the thread. Were I in the market for a new smart phone right now I might be looking into the Pre in some detail, but I'm not.

    Pre is a new operating system and it'll be a long time before it has 3rd party apps. If I were in the market for a new device, I wouldn't want to jump on a Pre for that reason alone. The Pro is still hot device and addresses the issues I had with my other Palm devices (Treo 680 and Tx).
  12. #12  
    One advantage the Pro has for PalmOS refugees is many apps from PalmOS are available on WM and some are only available on WM.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by ftwitty View Post
    Pre is a new operating system and it'll be a long time before it has 3rd party apps. If I were in the market for a new device, I wouldn't want to jump on a Pre for that reason alone. The Pro is still hot device and addresses the issues I had with my other Palm devices (Treo 680 and Tx).
    I agree that the Pro is still a hot device. Both phones are cool & both appeal to early adaptors. But, until there are more business apps out there for the Pre, it's audience is going to be the more middle ground consumer.

    The video demos all look like like the Pre is highly usable, right out of the box. I might want to change some of the color choices, but functionality looks good. I'm not sure, though, that it'll be all that long before there's a good supply of apps for it. It sounds like both linux & web developers will have an easy time of it. And the fact that the web, OpenMoko & Android have all been around for awhile, there should be a pretty good sized developer pool already existing.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by insol View Post
    I think I have #5. The Pre has forgone the notion of sync and save... instead relying on cloud-based applications/domains/storage. This feature: "Synergy" explicitly assumes a cloud-based storage reality.
    Just thought of a potential #6. GPS. On my Pro, I ended up buying TomTom software because everyone else wanted to stick me with a proprietary 1 or 2 gig memory card to use theirs. With everything installed & a small part of my music collection, I have almost a quarter of of my 16 gig card already filled -- including the fact that some things will ONLY install on the phone & the GPS stuff chooses the card ONLY. Using a similar array of software, music & GPS software & maps, that eats up 4-6 gigs of 8 gig space in no time. And, even if no one created WebOS real GPS software, I'd be pretty desperate to rely on "the largest 3G network" for "assisted" GPS. No thanks.
  15. #15  
    I see from a different forum that the Pre has no SD Micro slot, no slot at all. That disturbes me. Seems like a deal breaker to me. Device failure would mean backup destruction.
  16. #16  
    I will prolly stick with my Treo Pro for long time after the Release of a GSM Pre.
    Especially if the Pre doesn't do HSDPA.
    Just call me Berd.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I will prolly stick with my Treo Pro for long time after the Release of a GSM Pre.
    Especially if the Pre doesn't do HSDPA.
    I'd be very suprised if the GSM Pre didn't support 3G and 3.5G.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I will prolly stick with my Treo Pro for long time after the Release of a GSM Pre.
    Especially if the Pre doesn't do HSDPA.
    If a GSM Pre is released in the US it will probably do HSDPA.
  19. #19  
    There are a lot of consideration to switch to pre, gsm is one thing and 3rd party apps is other. I will continue using pro for at least a year or two until the program that I am using in pro available in pre.
  20. cgk
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
    I'd be very suprised if the GSM Pre didn't support 3G and 3.5G.
    It would be frankly bizarre to release a cloud device that didn't do 3g and 3.5g...
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