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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I agree with this. Though it looks to have Exchange out-the-box which is a step in the right direction.

    People laughed at the iPhone too in this regard, but it clearly has entered the business market strongly once Exchange support was added.

    What is against the Pre though is (1) time (2) price. One good thing about WM is the varying ranges of prices for the devices.

    That's where the Sprint Treo Pro fits in nicely: WM business devices, moderately priced (cheaper than Pre probably) and tested.

    It'll fill that Pre gap for business for 6-9 months nicely.
    I think we are on exactly the same page on this.

    Corporate IT are going to want to hear Exchange, VPN and I think you will get issues like powerpoint.

    I think you will recall that one fo the first thins I mentioned as standout int the convo flog, and certainly positively, that the first mentioned capability by Palm was exchange. They said it before anything, moving form business apps down the line to fun and ending with the facebook kicker.

    I think you have it exactly right with 6-9 months. then they are going to have a look at how much enterprise and coiprate penetration OSweb has archived, and what they need to do abotu it (if anythign)

    I am a bit shocked at belign challanged at mentioning what Sprint and all the anlysts have focused on n the past couple of years -- the debacle with nextel, which was done to get some corporate and business user bite, and hwo they lost some many of those those customer!
    Denying the core narrative of Sprint is strange.
    Here it is:
    - Sprint was losing ground to ATT and Verizon on business and high arpu customers. with their discounts, bottom of the barrel customer service they had created a culture and customer expectation of low price for low service.

    To combat the problems they have tried a variety of strategies, some good, some neutral at least one near fatal.

    - they made a (near) do or die wiht the Nextel buy to address this specific problem
    - They eroded those business Nextel business accounts, with a huge churn and free fall in nextel business customer losses which instead of pumping their b2b, sent it crashing
    - concurrently, to deal with gross market share loss which eroded both capital market confidence and economies of scale, they opened the previously closed SERO into a viral marketing to pump their gross numbers.
    - this added churn and lowered ARPU even more. They have prople paying $25 a month with unlimited data and text!
    - They announced a plan to deal with the number one customer complaint, unexpected and often incorrect charges, the simply everything. that helped.
    - They changed a customer is always wrong attitude to a custoerm is right attitude
    - They eliminated the culture of spif and commision at the stores where employees lied about features, coverage and plans.
    - They still have low customer numbers, not less growth, but negative goss growth and loss of market share, and shareholder losses.
    - they still have persistances in low arpu, high churn
    - their competitors are in excellent position to counter strategic and tactical moves becasue they are bigger and more well funded.
    - they were stuck with one competitive advantage, competing on price a very hard road to hoe.
    - they have partnered with a underestimated but financially weak manufacturer and have a compelling, product that has deservedly high reviews, but will take a while to give them traction on the fundimentals

    Sprint is bottom heavy with pre-paid compared to verizon and ATT, they are bottom heavy with low ARPU customers because of the sero ploy (I don't think five million sero are "enteprise")

    That is where we are. The PRE" is an excellent play at the middle. They maybe able to go for a big chunk of b2b with the product itself eventually, and certainly with follow on products and app development on the Pre per se, as well other poducts as the OS's acceptance over time.

    But there is also blowback to going from weak reality to a potentiali strength in a competitive market. Your bigger stronger (compared to both Sprint and Palm) , cash rich competitors may decide to fark with you. ATT and Verizon could put a stake in Sprints heart if they wanted to, and for Palm, there is Microsoft, HTC (the most profitable smartphone oreinted maker) and RIM. I think Rim is resting on it laurels but it is very very deeply entrenched. I deal a lot with govenrment and if you think those bureaucratic buyers (of millions and millions of handsets) they are not going to jump on Pre and webos for a very long time.

    A while back I mentioned seeing deices outside of Palm with the new OS. You said Palm would never license it. Point taken. But you know not everything is voluntary, Palm is still deeply vulnerable to takeover.

    I am optimistic about the Pre, about Palm, about Sprint at least they have a fighting chance.
    Last edited by aero; 01/12/2009 at 03:29 PM.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by integra144 View Post
    Whats the point of the 800w wouldn't Sprint or Palm have lost money on it for marketing and production for such a short period and to retool the factories? I don't really understand why they would produce a phone for one carrier Sprint and only intend to keep it on the market for a year?
    You are late to the news. It is coming to Sprint on the 25. the FCC paperwork shows it.

    You need to ask Palm or Sprint. The fact is it occured.


    Quote Originally Posted by integra144;1542051And not to be sarcastic, but how many times will the CDMA 800 Pro be quote "around the corner" or "800w Pro will hit stores
    next month]!!!" ? I am losing my excitement; I think someone needs to tell Palm Marketing about the boy who cried wolf, or we will just think of Palm Marketing as a car alarm and pay no attention.
    No more than any other handset. I haven't heard it was "Just around the corner" until it was a few months out just like every other handset. In fact it is probably less not more.

    palm cried wolf on the Pro? How so?
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    You are late to the news. It is coming to Sprint on the 25. the FCC paperwork shows it.

    You need to ask Palm or Sprint. The fact is it occured.




    No more than any other handset. I haven't heard it was "Just around the corner" until it was a few months out just like every other handset. In fact it is probably less not more.

    palm cried wolf on the Pro? How so?
    becuae I read so many release dates for it. Hey aero you need to understand I have to make sure my 800w drops and heels over at exactly the right time or I will be left without a phone. And I don't like upgrading something that works.

    Few months is a long time for me
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    So...can you prove the fact that Sprint has less corp subscribers, or not?
    your right the whole thing with nextel was imagined, buying it so they could be competitive in t hat market was imagined, and losing so many of the nextel customers was a myth.
  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by integra144 View Post
    becuae I read so many release dates for it. Hey aero you need to understand I have to make sure my 800w drops and heels over at exactly the right time or I will be left without a phone. And I don't like upgrading something that works.
    Few months is a long time for me
    I was told in late September it would be soon. My gues was six weeks earlier than late january, but for handsets it is all up in the air. maybe 800w sales were slower then expected. I don't think palm raised anyone's expectations on dates, they leave that to carriers.
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    your right the whole thing with nextel was imagined, buying it so they could be competitive in t hat market was imagined, and losing so many of the nextel customers was a myth.
    So black is white, true is false, up is down?

    I can prove to you that Sprint bought Nextel. I can prove to you that Nextel customers left Sprint after the merger. I can supply those documents and statements for you. (Here's the official Sprint news release.)

    And I can even do so even though I didn't bring up the Nextel merger. That's a good example of a provable fact though, so thanks for mentioning it.

    Still waiting for you to prove your "fact".

    So...can you prove the fact that Sprint has less corp subscribers, or not?

    How about it? A single Sprint news release? News article? Source of any kind?

    No? Nothing?

    Way I figured it, if you did have something, you would have posted it by now. The fact that you won't certainly implies that you can't.
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by integra144 View Post
    Whats the point of the 800w wouldn't Sprint or Palm have lost money on it for marketing and production for such a short period and to retool the factories? I don't really understand why they would produce a phone for one carrier Sprint and only intend to keep it on the market for a year?
    It was a mistake by Sprint. Palm delayed the 800w so many times because of various problems. Sprint wanted something with WM6.1 but also knew that the 800w wasn't outdated and would be EOL in 6 months when the Treo Pro was ready for CDMA. The Treo Pro will be sold by Sprint for a long time.

    Palm wanted Verizon to buy the 800w as well but Verizon refused it.
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    So black is white, true is false, up is down?

    I can prove to you that Sprint bought Nextel. I can prove to you that Nextel customers left Sprint after the merger. I can supply those documents and statements for you. (Here's the official Sprint news release.)

    And I can even do so even though I didn't bring up the Nextel merger. That's a good example of a provable fact though, so thanks for mentioning it.

    Still waiting for you to prove your "fact".
    I don't get your point. This is the main issue with Sprint and one of their core problems and you think they would be printing press releases about it?

    Do you deal with people in Enterprise a lot? go to meetings? No one has Sprint.

    Sprint has some small business penetration because small business are on a lot of legacy inexpensive plans. They failed with enterprise market. Don't blame me!
  9. #149  
    Aero, Palm has the largest number of corporate customers of any wireless provider in America and the moon landing was faked .
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by integra144 View Post
    Whats the point of the 800w wouldn't Sprint or Palm have lost money on it for marketing and production for such a short period and to retool the factories?.
    Hi integra144, the only retooling is of packaging. Palm outsources the production of devices to other companies. Inventec made the 800w, but they had HTC produce the Treo Pro.

    Really, I agree Palm did not release the 800w for it to have a short life. But I feel the sales dictate when a product is put on the back burner.
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Aero, Palm has the largest number of corporate customers of any wireless provider in America and the moon landing was faked .
    And ironically the people who believe in a faked moon landing have provided more support than Aero's "because I said so."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_...ax_accusations
  12. #152  
    you got it darnell. the guy made about 15 basic errors of fact on this thread, thinks corporate IT is going to run to an unproven OS, and now wants proof in the form of a Press release of of something Sprint would never admit but which the analysts cite.

    He is trying to derail another thread.

    Note the thread title" note his history of explaining why Sprint would be not have an interest in releasing a Treo Pro, why all the leaks we now know were real were "fakes".

    I proivd quite a few core assertion he made were factually baseless:
    800w is a standalone GPS device: wrong
    No one Pays for roaming: wrong
    His own plan doesnt penalize him for roaming by using up his minutes when he is on m2m: wrong
    His hack on gps works because he tested it on google maps: (WTF?)
    People sue phone carriers and not makers for maker advertsied features: wrong
    BBB was a bad idea: wrong
  13. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    you got it darnell. the guy made about 15 basic errors of fact on this thread, thinks corporate IT is going to run to an unproven OS, and now wants proof in the form of a Press release of of something Sprint would never admit but which the analysts cite.

    He is trying to derail another thread.

    Note the thread title" note his history of explaining why Sprint would be not have an interest in releasing a Treo Pro, why all the leaks we now know were real were "fakes".

    I proivd quite a few core assertion he made were factually baseless:
    800w is a standalone GPS device: wrong
    No one Pays for roaming: wrong
    His own plan doesnt penalize him for roaming by using up his minutes when he is on m2m: wrong
    His hack on gps works because he tested it on google maps: (WTF?)
    People sue phone carriers and not makers for maker advertsied features: wrong
    BBB was a bad idea: wrong
    Too true. I don't think that you'll be getting much of a response.

    Anyone having trouble getting a free Treo Pro in exchange for their defective 800w should check with Assurion and ask about the free, one-time upgrade policy. (If you don't feel like going the BBB route.)
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