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  1.    #1  
    Let's continue discussion here rather than side barring other threads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    The actual bug is that the GPS drivers/firmware looks at the network time instead of the device time. This is why you can't initialize GPS off network, or when the radio is off. In either case there's no network time, and thus no GPS.
    Ebag333, for whatever reason, you probably have more inside contacts at Palm than most of us. So are you speaking based off what people within Palm have told you, that it's totally a software issue?

    Palm's warranty requires them to either repair defects or issue a full refund of the customer's purchase price. Customers are being given full refunds by Palm, but Palm has not released a fix for the GPS issue. Why is Palm granting refunds instead of releasing a patch if it's all a software issue? Are there any legal boundaries involved?

    (Anyone who desires a refund from Palm, PM me.)
  2. #2  
    Lets be clear here, I've not been told by Palm that it's a software issue. What I've been told is that the 800w's GPS uses network time instead of device time.

    Based on that information, and based on the way the 800w works, it's pretty clear that the problem lies with the drivers and/or firmware.

    There's a lot of reasons why it may not have been fixed yet:

    1. People just don't care.

      The vast majority of people don't buy the 800w (or any phone) for GPS. It's a convenience thing for them, not a necessity. "Nice to have" is a term I've heard about this feature (and many others) quite often. How many people do you know with a phone that can do GPS and an in-car or handheld GPS receiver?

      In car or handheld GPS units are nearly always superior to GPS on a phone. They're often faster, often more accurate, have larger screens, are better designed for use while driving....the list goes on.
    2. How often do you go off network?
      The vast majority of people rarely go off network. What use is standalone GPS if you're always on network? Many people consider a cell phone useless off network anyway, so it's not an issue to them.

      Even myself, who lives in one of the last areas where coverage is very spotty (travel 15 minutes outside of town and you might lose your Sprint signal), and who spends a great deal of time out in the backwoods, I have Sprint coverage in places that amaze me. And when I don't have Sprint I often have a roaming tower. (And with the new fix that I provided, I can now use my GPS while roaming. )
    3. Palm may be waiting on Qualcomm.

      There are a lot of factors at play here. None of us knows exactly where the bug lies with the GPS. I'm always careful to (try and say) that it's in the firmware and/or driver. But those are two very different levels. As I'm sure you know, Darnell (though others might not), the firmware deals with the hardware while the driver deals with the operating system. Together they form the bridge between the hardware and the operating system. Either one of those could be setup incorrectly (or even both of them).

      If the bug is at the driver level, that's something that Palm is likely to be able to fix themselves. But if it's at the firmware level, than that's no something that Palm can generally address themselves.
    4. There could be licensing issues.
      I don't think it's likely, but it's a possibility. If Palm originally intended the 800w to go to Verizon (as we know they did), and didn't plan on any other carriers, they may have only licensed aGPS and not standalone, as Verizon has no use for standalone (though that seems to be changing). Why pay more for a feature that's not even going to be used, right?
    5. Palm may have fixed it already.
      Given the very very small number of phones that Palm has bought back (most people are going through Sprint and receiving a credit, the cost of which Sprint eats and not Palm), and the relatively small number of returns based on this issue (there are far larger issues at play for returns, radio issues, volume/speaker issues, etc), then Palm may have decided not to release the GPS fix as a standalone fix. If they are planning on a larger update within the next few months, that's actually the smart move to make, because a bunch of small fixes are vastly more expensive than a single large fix, even if you lose some customers in the process.



    Most of this is just conjecture, however. I can't prove that it's in the driver or firmware. I can't prove it's not though either.

    Personally, I think it's pretty good guesses based on the info I have, but I have nothing confirmed that hasn't been already publicly stated. I know that Palm is aware of the issue, and at the very least their dev's were looking into it. Now whether that translates into a fix or not, that's anyone's guess.



    Honestly though, this used to be my biggest complaint about the 800w. However, since the fix I posted this has become a non-issue for me.

    I spend *LOTS* of time off Sprint's network, probably averaging at least 24 hours worth of time a week, and the there's times when I go a week without Sprint service. It was a minor irritant to me to need to use my standalone GPS bluetooth puck. Not the end of the world, but about like having a pebble in your shoe.

    Since the fix (linked above), I haven't been without GPS when I've needed it a single time. And I've been in some pretty crazy far off places.

    I still carry my standalone GPS puck, but that's more of a "just in case" than "if I need GPS I need this". I also carry a full emergency med kit that I could perform some fairly serious surgery with if I had to, but my standalone GPS puck has been relegated to the same position as that, along the lines of "I should never have to use it, but if I do, I got it!".
  3. #3  
    If there is a "fix" for this, it won't be a patch.

    Patches are just things that alter the OS, which is a pretty superficial thing. This will require a ROM flash since this is going to have to modify the radio/gps firmware (like the QPST changes we've been doing..those aren't done via the OS).

    That kind of fix will require carrier approval, testing and support which takes time (usually 3-5 months of carrier testing--which includes initial testing and back and forths with the manufacturer).

    Carriers don't want the radio touched without their approval since it affects their network. Sprint is strict on this; Verizon is much more strict.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  4.    #4  
    Not that they necessarily would tell me if they are, but Sprint Advanced Device Support has not spoken of any testing in process to resolve the issue.

    I know Aero has done much talking with Sprint and Palm and although I don't mention it here I have also. Neither of them has affirmed anything is coming. That's not to say nothing is coming, but if they're working on something they're being very tight lipped about it. Can't say I've heard anything that affirms the true source of the defect or if it will be resolved.

    Thank you all for your input.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
    I used to work for GE Astro Space (now Martin Lockheed) which manufactured the Block II constellation of GPS birds so I know of which I speak.
    Hey, I used to work for GE Aerospace in Valley Forge, PA . By the time I got on they were just being bought by Martin Marietta and we know about them merging with Lockheed later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post

    This thread was derailed at page 4 over a non-important distinction (and your obvious recruitment here by Aero is a bit obvious or just extremely coincidental).
    Oh it's' very important.

    You were very specific about the term "patch" versus "ROM update" because that means a lot to you for your area of study. For anyone interested in GPS, the terms used by Palm (or someone speaking about the device's GPS capabilities) versus the actual functionality are highly important. We know people do make purchase decisions based on discussions here and someone being misinformed to think the 800w has stand alone GPS when it does not would not be a good thing.

    I don't know what brought pgh1969pa to this forum, but pgh1969pa has expertise in the topic area that should be valued and appreciated. Granted pgh1969pa didn't realize things were being moved to another thread, but regardless of how pgh1969pa got here it's only a good thing to have someone here with a good handle on the subject matter.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Oh it's' very important.
    For clarification, I was saying it was unimportant for the hack to enhance aGPS (i.e. that thread), not as a general issue. The outcome of such a discussion does not change the effectiveness of that hack.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  7. #7  
    hi there darnell i tried pm you about getting a refund on the treo 800w but it wont alow me to pm you. i was wondering how i could go about getting the refund as i purchased the phone from sprint at full retail price please pm me directions on how to get the refund thanks alot any help would be appreciated
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    If there is a "fix" for this, it won't be a patch.

    Patches are just things that alter the OS, which is a pretty superficial thing. This will require a ROM flash since this is going to have to modify the radio/gps firmware (like the QPST changes we've been doing..those aren't done via the OS).

    That kind of fix will require carrier approval, testing and support which takes time (usually 3-5 months of carrier testing--which includes initial testing and back and forths with the manufacturer).

    Carriers don't want the radio touched without their approval since it affects their network. Sprint is strict on this; Verizon is much more strict.
    Agreed. Correct and serious remarks. Also serious is that by some (one user) constantly stating Standalone works or now, incredibly and opposed to all published information, that the the accurate time assisted is not aGPS, hampers the pressure on Sprint and Palm to issue a fix.

    We have one poster here who claims standalone works and everyone else, including people who have read the literature, stating it doesn't. The endless troll on this subject by claiming standalone works and the harm to pressure to get Palm to fix it are not "trivial."
  9. #9  
    This thread was derailed at page 4 over a non-important distinction (and your obvious recruitment here by Aero is a bit obvious or just extremely coincidental).
    Obvious? Ask. I did no such thing.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Lets be clear here, I've not been told by Palm that it's a software issue. What I've been told is that the 800w's GPS uses network time instead of device time.
    Perhaps they didn't take you seriously. the serious answer I got was forced aGPS through accurate time assistance requirment.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by jjmogul25 View Post
    hi there darnell i tried pm you about getting a refund on the treo 800w but it wont alow me to pm you. i was wondering how i could go about getting the refund as i purchased the phone from sprint at full retail price please pm me directions on how to get the refund thanks alot any help would be appreciated
    Palm is warrantor. they will (because they have to) offer you your paid invoice price if you submit a claim through the BBB. If you paid full price Palm through a BBB complaint is the best alternative.

    If you got it deeply discounted, Palm will likely offer and stick to your invoiced price which means you will get stuck holding the bag for your one time discounts. In that case you maybe better off with recourse through Sprint, but it will be a big headache.
  12. #12  
    thanks for that info darnell 1 question what is the BBB
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by jjmogul25 View Post
    thanks for that info darnell 1 question what is the BBB
    I'll be sending you a PM.
  14. #14  
    The BBB is the Better Business Bureaus.

    You may also be able to get a credit or upgrade from Sprint as well.


    You may want to look at the FAQ. There are a lot of fixes and improvements in there. If there's something else you're looking for, you can post and we may be able to provide a more direct answer.
    Last edited by Ebag333; 01/04/2009 at 09:41 PM.
  15. #15  
    thank you i really appreciate your help
  16. #16  
    thank you i really appreciate you helping me out with this
  17.    #17  
    For anyone having issues sending me a PM, I've setup the e-mail address darnell2009 [put an at symbol here] hushmail.com, which can also be used to reach me.
  18. #18  
    from the other thread, which I'm now cleaning up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Glad you trying to start up another argument again.



    I agree with you. It's NOT standalone. But it is using standalone methodology for finding the sats. It's not using any cached data, and it's not using data from an aGPS server. If it's not either either of those, then there's only one option left.

    As per Mal's excellent guide on aGPS per GPS:



    If the GPS isn't getting the data from the towers/server, then it's not aGPS. It's using standalone GPS methods to acquire the sats, but is still using the network time for the initial time to prime the GPS.

    That's not standalone GPS, because you cannot initialize it off network. But it acquires the sats in the same method that standalone GPS does.

    It's pretty simply really if you break it down.

    Anyway, this is pretty much a thread derail, so that's 'nuff said on that subject.
    [QUOTE=aero;1536098]What is with your endless personal attacks instead of dealing in facts? It is not an "argument" it is a statement of fact that is brought up by your endless incorrect use of term standalone as well as your misunderstanding of aGPS modes.you have written the 800w works in standalone mode. that is false. We all know it. Standalone means no connection to the network to initialize.

    There are actually many devices that can work as both aGPS or Standalone, but the 800w is not one of them because the aGPS is not optional it is required.



    What? the accurate time via towers is being used specifically to help find the sats! That is the reason for it according to all the GPS engineering papers. On poorer RF mobile units it is an aGPS mode to get the sats faster.

    Taking accurate time assistance from ground based networks is a known and commented-on method of aGPS. There are papers on it discussing how this method of aGPS (accurate time assistance) can reduce TTFF by 40%. Put another way it is equal to a 10% increase in sat rf signal or a 10% increase in GPS unit sensitivity

    800W is requiring an accurate network time from the network. That is "network data" and aGPS and not standalone by all definitions.

    The fact that it requires it makes it not just aGPS, but makes it also "not standalone."

    aGPS isn't just cached data(cached data has no bearing) or computation on the network, it is data such as accurate time/ephemeridals/alamanc. accurate time is one of the core elements of aGPS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    As per Mal's excellent guide on aGPS per GPS:


    Mals guide is very basic. Look at the last sentence: "and all that GPS computations is handled by 3rd party computers."

    The "and all GPS computations" is one kind of aGPS. Either he is making a mistake or you are quoting out of context because that is one fraction of aGPS where all the GPS computations are handled off the phone. The rest and aGPS includes any initialization for TTFF assistance data, time and/or ephemeris and or almanac -- Mal knows it.
    I am certain that unlike you, he knows that the definition of standalone means it will start and work in the middle of the pacific. That specific location for testing was incidentally what one of the senior editors at a major industry GPS trade publication told me would be the definitive test for calling a unit standalone GPS in advertising that expert witnesses would cite in a court of law.

    Again you are combining two different forms of aGPS -- Ms based and ms assisted.



    WTF. Since it requires data from the towers (accurate time assistance) then it is aGPS only.

    Ebagg333 seems to think a major class of aGPS (recognized in engineering papers, academic papers, professional publications and patents (filed by the biggies like snaptrak) TTFF aGPS is not aGPS! In fact TTFF aGPS is used to correct of lessor equipment on the mobile unit.

    What ebag is doing is tweaking one of several aGPS methods used by the 800w. Good for him. But he is not in any way enabling standalone yet he he keeps using that term

    I reread Mals guide (I have read over 100 scientific and engineering papers since). Here is what ebag 333 leaves off of his quotes from Mal's guide:
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    In CDMA some aGPS information is sent via non data connection and optionally some more complex aGPS is sent via data connections. Even with Data connection off on your handset, CDMA towers relay GPS satellite acquired data to you handset via the normal CDMA voice signal. In the case of the 800w, one set of aGPS data especially is required, "accurate time assistance" data. In CDMA this data is acquired from GPS receivers on CDMA towers, and transmitted to your 800w's GPS over normal voice channel.
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Great information. That must be the root of the 800w's GPS bug.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Okay, lets see if I can break this down real simple here.

    Qualcomm uses 7 different modes for "GPS":

    Assistance-Spherical
    Assistance-Cartesian
    AFLT
    GPS Almanac
    GPS Ephemeris
    GPS Almanac Correction
    Autonomous

    And then there's an additional option for GPS/AFLT Hybrid.

    Now, the two options with AFLT we can ignore. Windows Mobile does not use AFLT, even if the chipset supports it. AFLT is used in Blackberry (though they are moving away from it) and Palm OS devices. This is the "My Location" option that you see in Google Maps.

    Assistance-Spherical and Assistance Cartesian are two different aGPS options that allows the chipset to work with two different types of data.

    You often hear the terms "MS-Assisted" and "MS-Based", but these are not aGPS at the chipset level, these are options at the driver/operating system level, not the chipset/firmware level. And regardless, they just mean how much the aGPS server will help your phone determine it's location.

    All the GPS XXXXX options are used for finding sats based on the internal GPS data (cached information). This is the biggest change with this tweak, and is what speeds up the GPS sat acquisition time so much, because you phone no longer needs to go out to that aGPS server and pull down the almanac/ephemeris data.

    That leaves us with the final option, Autonomous. And just like it sounds, Autonomous is what's used for (and here's the important part, folks) standalone GPS.


    Now, lets put that information on hold for a moment and move onto another important part of GPS, and that is time.

    Most cell phones have two times that they capture. The first is your device time, which is why your clock works even if your radio is turned off, or you're out of service. This is actually used by 99.9% of your applications.

    The second time is network time. This is the current time as received from the towers.

    Now, our phones use the network time to update the device time, which keeps the device time extremely accurate.

    The root of the 800w's GPS bug has nothing to do with "GPS satellite acquired data to you handset via the normal CDMA voice signal". The actual bug is that the GPS drivers/firmware looks at the network time instead of the device time. This is why you can't initialize GPS off network, or when the radio is off. In either case there's no network time, and thus no GPS.



    "So," you're asking, "how do you know that the 800w is using standalone GPS methods to acquire satellites when on roaming and no data connection is available?"

    Ahhh, glad you asked my friend, glad you asked.

    Simply put, you can disable all the GPS options except Autonomous, and GPS still works. Disabling the autonomous option is a trick often used on networks that don't want you to have standalone GPS (*cough*Verizon*cough*), and if you look through the workarounds to enable it you'll often find that enabling Autonomous GPS is one of the first steps.

    Additionally, you can keep a voice connection open, and GPS will still acquire the sats. It takes 15-30 minutes (if not longer), but it'll happen if you are in a location where you can get a GPS signal.

    There's no magic data being transmitted over the voice channel, it's simply using standalone methods to acquire the sats. This is different than the GPS being standalone, because you're still tethered to the network (because you require the system time).

    What does it mean to you? Basically what it means is that if you are not on Sprint's network, are roaming, have no data connection, and your GPS cache is incorrect or non-existent, you can still get a GPS signal. It might take 15-30 minutes (or perhaps even longer, depending on the location and situation), but you'll get it eventually.




    But hey, what do I know?
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    . I spoke and and wrote a number of GPS experts from published GPS engineering papers and trade publications as to why the 800W was aGPS only even in fallback to non ephemeris download, but required time assistance aGPS. I learned this most basic type of aGPS used as required by the 800w, "accurate time assistance", has several reasons behind it.

    Reasons to use time assistance aGPS are: to compensate for poor hardware, eg poor RF capabilities and/or poor time keeping on the device; to speed up acquisition regardless; to reduce computation time; reduce battery draw to compensate for poor time keeping on the device; to intentionally break standalone and disallow use of the GPS outside of the CDMA region.

    Reason to require time assistance agps in the first place would include: a programming oversight, disallow use of the feature outside of a region, to reduce support time for inherent poor Rf reception.

    Reasons not to fix it: non ownership of drivers, inadequate complaint to rom update cost, inherent poor RF or timekeeping, product at or near end of life.

    AS to why people like Crazy eddie and others noted they lost the satellites after a few minutes of leaving Sprint coverage, the accurate time, while required initially is also refreshed during use. If it isn't reacquiring dropped sats maybe a problem.

    Also from Ebag's posts he doesn't seem to realize how CDMA works. That it transmits data on ly with what he calls the "data connection. That is why he thinks roaming means no data.

    With the 800w required "accurate time assistance" aGPS, the key data, the microseconds accurate GPS time, can be transmitted via a normal non data connection.

    By thinking that an ip session is required for all aGPS he is going around in logical circles.
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    don't mix yourself up with what dozens of users here have called Palms bogus or silly description just written because they are afraid of a lawsuit and are making up new terms!

    There is ALREADY a name used by people who know way more than you and design and patent these systems, for the 800w method polling of time data from the towers: "Accurate time Assistance AGPS". That is what all the GPS experts call it -- aGPS. If it is required it precludes standalone GPS

    You think all the experts and engineers describing accurate time assistance aGPS are wrong and you are right. ok. But excuse me for for siding with the GPS engineers!

    Standalone GPS does not use GPS time relayed by satellites to towers and relayed to the phone or any data from towers -- which is what you are describing . Standalone GPS units have the RF sensitivity and/or software and drivers to get the initial accurate time directly from the Satellites

    Fact:
    1) accurate time assistance from towers is one of many forms of aGPS
    2 accurate time assistance from towers required -- Not Standalone GPS
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Except I've driven hundreds (if not thousands by now) of miles not on any network and dropped and reacquired sats with no issues, including times when I've lost all sat connections (for up to 30 seconds).

    Yet you keep ignoring that minor bit of info.




    Wrong.

    I think that no data connection, with aGPS and cached GPS options disabled, on a 1x roaming network, and actively using voice (IE: having an active call) means that there's no way to download any GPS almanac or ephemeris data.

    But perhaps you'd like to explain why the 800w's GPS still functions in the above situation?



    At no point in time have I claimed that the 800w does not require network time, can initialize off network. Please point out where I've said so, so that I can correct the post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Can we please NOT turn this into another referendum/attempt at explanation for the 800w's non-standalone GPS? This is getting so old already.

    We have like half a dozen threads on that where all these theories can be hashed out.

    Lets just keep this a "how to" for this hack and an assistance thread for those who want to do this.
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    You would not need me to explain it if you read the engineering papers on aGPS by "accurate time assistance," or if you picked up the phone and called some of the authors.

    Because, and nothing could be more relevant since the 800w problem with its(still) broken standalone is that as "accurate time assistance" is, unlike actual standalone devices, required.

    The papers on this type of aGPS laud the fact that this key data can be carried on the normal voice connection on CDMA. Again, those of us who know CDMA know an ip session is not needed for this key aGPS accurate time assistance data.

    The accurate time assistance aGPS requirement over CDMA is the roadblock.
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    I fully understand your position. Respectfully I would not have said anything if it were not for the poster in question saying standalone works with this hack when you and I know it doesn't.

    I think you can guess from my posts that I went over this with some serious GSP engineers. I urge you Malatesta to get in contact with some and ask if accurate time assistance is aGPS as I say, or if it is not as ebag seems to claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Dieter (or another mod):

    Can you please break out the last few posts by myself and Aero and move them to one of the existing GPS threads? As Mal posted, this is quite a derail and I apologize to anyone who's looking for information on the fix for my contributions to this (yet another) debate.

    One would think I would have learned by now just to leave Aero on my ignore list....
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Deiter or any mod

    The very root of the 800w Standalone GPS failure its forced reliance aGP "accurate time assistance" data from the Sprint towers.

    Exactly one person on earth is saying that "accurate time assistance" agps data is not aGPS (or time is not data !) and scores of technical papers engineers, patents, and peer reviewed academic work say it is aGPS.

    Any real expert you contact will say that forcing reliance on network resources such as terrestrial tower relayed GPS time precludes defining the 800w as Standalone GPS.

    This is not merely a technical issue (and I am right and have throughly vetted the technical points), it is a consumer rights issue.

    I will not be shut or a shouted down on this as after five months of looking a this including contacting experts. I know exactly what I am talking about. Ebag did not even know the term for the root problem (accurate time assistance agps, until I noted it here.

    Why is ebag keep saying in opposition to everyone, that the Standalone works. He has been saying it to multiple posters for months.

    If ebag is going to say "standalone works" or "accurate time assistance is not agps" on any thread-- no one should shut out an objection to those claims, which are factually false on their face.
    Quote Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
    No terminology exists because there is no such thing as standalone GPS that is dependent on network time. What you are referring to is a form of aGPS or eGPS. No standalone GPS fix is *ever* dependent on a source for obtaining a correct fix besides the GPS constellation of satellites. End of story. Anything else is a revisionist approach.

    I can set the wrong system time on all three of my standalone GPS units (FS Loox N100, FS Loox N560, & Pharos GPS 525) and they all will obtain a correct postional fix because the device does not depend on system time. Time used for determining a fix is obtained by syncing the GPS chip's internal clock with the atomic clock inside of each satellite. I used to work for GE Astro Space (now Martin Lockheed) which manufactured the Block II constellation of GPS birds so I know of which I speak.
    Quote Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
    Agreed. Standardized time between the GPS device and the constellation of GPS satellites is necessary in all types of GPS devices (standalone, aGPS, and eGPS). The big difference is a standalone GPS device is capable of syncing time with the data stream provided by satellites. Each satellite has an onboard atomic clock that is kept in sync with earth bound atomic clocks via ground control. A standalone GPS gets it's time fix via satellites and syncs with the internal clock of the chipset.
    Quote Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
    Sorry but I couldn't help myself...there is so much misinformation out there and I couldn't resist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Please try harder next time.

    These semantic arguments are completely irrelevant to this purpose of this thread: using QPST to enable additional aGPS features as outlined in Post #1.

    This thread was derailed at page 4 over a non-important distinction (and your obvious recruitment here by Aero is a bit obvious or just extremely coincidental).

    This thread has been reported to the moderators for cleanup. I encourage others to the same by pressing --> to your left.

    My apologies for my bluntness.
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Ebag's false claim on this thread that the accurate time assist aGPS requirement is not aGPS goes to the core of the entire broken standalone GSP issue.

    T

    That is personal and FALSE.

    The thread was derailed by ebag, who decided to use it to push his false and unique idea of standalone and his false idea of agps, both very serious issues, and on which not a single person agrees.

    You Mal do not agree that accurate time assist is not aGPS, and you do not agree that this hack allows Standalone GPS to function as ebag has claimed.





    You should apologize for the false accuastions which should be the first thing cleaned up.

    If the mods touch any clarification by me countering ebags false claims on the accepted modes of aGPS, of which "accurate time assist" is one, they will be doing a serious disservice to the readers.
  19. #19  
    Welp, fwiw Palm has revamped their website and under the 800w (which is still featured prominently) they have removed any mention of "autonomous" or "standalone" from their GPS specs.

    In fact, the Treo Pro and 800w are both listed as just "GPS" which is pretty much how everyone lists these things (not making the aGPS/GPS distinction).

    I wouldn't read too much into this as it looks more like trying to simplify the site.

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  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Welp, fwiw Palm has revamped their website and under the 800w (which is still featured prominently) they have removed any mention of "autonomous" or "standalone" from their GPS specs.

    In fact, the Treo Pro and 800w are both listed as just "GPS" which is pretty much how everyone lists these things (not making the aGPS/GPS distinction).

    I wouldn't read too much into this as it looks more like trying to simplify the site.
    Looks like we can say goodbye to a bug-fix for the defective GPS on the 800w. Darn.
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