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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    And it wasn't me.

    But hey, I could of just met you downtown.
    That would have been great! I posted it in the Marketplace I was looking to buy or swap, guess you missed it. But the beauty of Craigslist......


    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    Don't feel bad, Sprint is dumping the 800 too.

    One of the big reasons I wanted to get rid of it. I'm not convinced that the Pro will be the big winner that the Windows Mobile platform needs. It's going to be interesting to see what Palm is going to announce at the CES next month.

    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    Don't feel bad, Sprint is dumping the 800 too.
    Great Reply!
  4. #24  
    <<<I've yet to find a phone without a single issue. If you can point a phone out to me that doesn't have a single issue straight from the manufacturer, I'd be much obliged.>>>

    Iphone for one. Not a single issue.
    Centro for another. Not a single issue.

    Maybe its just the norm for WM phones to have "issues" and need 5min tweaks. This isn't bad if you like WM. Heck, some like to tweak, it's all the fun for them. Not me, i had my fill of doing that over the years. I just want it to work. As would most mainstream users.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Iphone for one. Not a single issue.
    Jennifer pretty much summed it up for me on the iPhone Round Robin review.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    No voice dialing
    No cut and paste
    No A2DP (Unbelievable!!)
    No slot for expandable memory
    No video camera function
    No user replaceable battery
    How about adding to that the cracking issues of the white iPhone? How easily it is damaged by dropping it or scratching it? How easily the headphone jack breaks?

    Or perhaps the walled garden that the iPhone lives in, where Apple can (and has!) disabled apps at their slightest whim. (Can't have free apps that compete with Apple's paid apps, after all.)

    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Centro for another. Not a single issue.
    Dieing support (many developers dropping support for Palm OS). Take a look at Jennifer's excellent article on this.

    Or perhaps the bug that can drain your entire battery in less than 3 hours.

    But maybe there aren't that many bugs because it's easy to keep bugs from appearing when your OS is over six years old (compared to WM's latest update of 6.1 being about 6 months to a year old, depending on if you look at device released with it or an update).



    If you "just want it to work" then WM isn't really the best choice. I've always recommended that people who were at a lower technical level, or who did not want to tweak their devices to go with a Blackberry, or iPhone, or a Palm OS phone. All three of those are excellent devices for what they were designed for.

    None of them have the power or flexibility that WM has. BB may outshine WM in the e-mail department, but surf the web for 5 minutes with a BB and you'll be crying if you're used to WM. The iPhone might be more media friendly, but pretty much every app advertised for the iPhone has been out for ages for WM, and there's plenty of stuff that the iPhone can't do near as well as WM (especially in the business world). Palm OS is incredibly stable, but lack of threading and the outdated OS are two big negatives for it.

    There's pro's and con's to all the choices, and WM isn't the right choice for many people. But claiming that they don't have their own flaws and problems is just simply sticking your fingers in your ears and going la-la-la-la as loud as you can. I'm perfectly aware of the shortcomings of WM, and often steer people away from it when asked. I'm also aware of or WM's strengths, and that WM's biggest strength is that it has no one strength, it's a jack of all trades, while all three of the other popular OS's have one or two strong focuses.

    Not to mention that when there is a problem, there are often fixes by the user community. That's something not readily available with other OS's. (Which is rather ironic, given the whole MS vs Linux thing.)
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    ...clip...

    Iphone for one. Not a single issue.
    Centro for another. Not a single issue.

    ..clip...
    I'm really confused at this post!
    You can by no means be serious.
    Just call me Berd.
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post



    If you "just want it to work" then WM isn't really the best choice. I've always recommended that people who were at a lower technical level, or who did not want to tweak their devices to go with a Blackberry, or iPhone, or a Palm OS phone. All three of those are excellent devices for what they were designed for.

    None of them have the power or flexibility that WM has. BB may outshine WM in the e-mail department, but surf the web for 5 minutes with a BB and you'll be crying if you're used to WM. The iPhone might be more media friendly, but pretty much every app advertised for the iPhone has been out for ages for WM, and there's plenty of stuff that the iPhone can't do near as well as WM (especially in the business world). Palm OS is incredibly stable, but lack of threading and the outdated OS are two big negatives for it.

    There's pro's and con's to all the choices, and WM isn't the right choice for many people. But claiming that they don't have their own flaws and problems is just simply sticking your fingers in your ears and going la-la-la-la as loud as you can. I'm perfectly aware of the shortcomings of WM, and often steer people away from it when asked. I'm also aware of or WM's strengths, and that WM's biggest strength is that it has no one strength, it's a jack of all trades, while all three of the other popular OS's have one or two strong focuses.
    I really don't care about the operating system is on my phone, I just wanted one that would ring when I got a call! I have used both Windows and Palm based PDAs and phone for years, and they each have their pros and cons. Yes, there are varying levels of what you can do to tweak them and tune them up and hack to improve performance or overcome design flaws. But if the phone isn't working, it isn't worth diddly.


    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  8. #28  
    That's always been my beef.
    Give us an amazing phone first, then make it a nice pda.
    It's only recently that palm started giving us a decent radio. Google 650 reception, and you'll find hit after hit of reception complaints.
    I have lost more than one Palm friend to BB because of BB's great RF.
    I just could never understand why they'd build a $$$ device and then skimp on the phone.
  9. #29  
    People go with what they know.

    Palm is first and foremost a PDA company. They are not a cellular company. You take a company that makes good cell phones, and they will make a crappy PDA with great reception.

    While it's not a good thing that Palm has lacked on the radio side, it's certainly understandable as they have much less experience on that side than they do with the PDA side.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    People go with what they know.

    Palm is first and foremost a PDA company. They are not a cellular company. You take a company that makes good cell phones, and they will make a crappy PDA with great reception.

    While it's not a good thing that Palm has lacked on the radio side, it's certainly understandable as they have much less experience on that side than they do with the PDA side.
    Actually (to back up your point), that is exactly what happened when Motorola made the original Q. It was a great phone with fantastic reception, voice dialing, and flawless BT. The PDA and software is where the problems came in.

    Moto is a cellphone company and their phone expertise shined through, while their lack of PDA/smartphone experience was also obvious.
    Daniel Levin
    levinda13@sbcglobal.net
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    One of the big reasons I wanted to get rid of it. I'm not convinced that the Pro will be the big winner that the Windows Mobile platform needs. It's going to be interesting to see what Palm is going to announce at the CES next month.

    I believe you are correct. This device will not save Palm. They are probably going to announce Nova which is total waste of time and money. They have POS so just tweak that instead of creating an entirely new one. If thats the announcement I will laugh out loud.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    Don't feel bad, Sprint is dumping the 800 too.
    ROTFLMAO Too funny!
  13. #33  
    wow, now i don't feel so bad. i've often wondered how i can be siting here at my desk, phone next to my keyboard and it not ring/vibrate (i have it set to do both) and i have a voicemail/missed call/text message. i thought i was just losing my mind...
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by binder View Post
    wow, now i don't feel so bad. i've often wondered how i can be siting here at my desk, phone next to my keyboard and it not ring/vibrate (i have it set to do both) and i have a voicemail/missed call/text message. i thought i was just losing my mind...
    Once again, with gusto!

    There's already a fix for this.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Once again, with gusto!

    There's already a fix for this.
    Except there isn't! That doesn't fix it when it never rings at all. Nothing in the call log, no indication of a missed call besides the voicemail pop up. Never happened with my Mogul (what a POS that was). I'm happy with my 800W besides the "ghost" call bug.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelet View Post
    Except there isn't! That doesn't fix it when it never rings at all. Nothing in the call log, no indication of a missed call besides the voicemail pop up. Never happened with my Mogul (what a POS that was). I'm happy with my 800W besides the "ghost" call bug.
    The way it works is like this.

    Your phone periodically goes out and checks for new texts, new voicemails, and see's if anyone is calling you. How often it does this is controlled by the SCI.

    The polling time is 1.28 seconds, but this is controlled by the SCI (which is a multiplier). The 800w by default has an SCI of 3, which means that if your phone just checked the tower, 5.12 seconds goes by before it checks again. If a call comes in during that period, you won't know till 5.12 seconds passes (roughly).

    5.12 seconds doesn't sound like a lot, but it's enough time that you could miss a call completely.


    This isn't the only reason your phone can miss a call. If Sprint's doing work on their towers (such as in my area when they upgraded them) that can cause it. Weak/spotty coverage can cause it. Signal being blocked/dropped can cause it. The phone not synching to the tower for that polling cycle can cause it.

    But in all of those cases, increasing the polling time (by reducing the SCI) will improve your ability to receive calls, because it will check the tower more often, which gives you more chances to pick up that incoming call.


    It's not a magic bullet (fixes rarely are), but it is something that certainly helps to a very very very large extent.
  17. #37  
    Unless you are in an EVDO area, you will occasionally miss a call when your Treo is checking for new mail. That's a problem of not having simultaneous voice and data. AT&T's Edge is the same way. If you are in an EVDO area you can check a setting that allows data to be interrupted by voice calls.
    Sprint 600 - 650 - 755 - Mogul - 700Wx - Centro - 800W & iPhone
  18.    #38  
    One question about the 1.2 or 5.12 seconds polling time. If someone calls me on my phone, they will hear it ring for 12-15 seconds before it goes to voice mail. If my phone is polling the towers every 5.12 seconds or whatever, why doesn't it pick up that fact someone is calling me? I have never had this problem with my 700wx or 755p, only the 800w. As for Sprint working on the towers in my area, they must have been spending a lot of time on them because I was missing calls all the time. Since I went back to the 755p, I haven't missed one. The very fact that "hacking" the phone from the Sprint defaults to improve your reception by itself shows there is a problem with the phone. If it was a wide spread Sprint problem, other users would be reporting the same problem.

    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnH59 View Post
    Unless you are in an EVDO area, you will occasionally miss a call when your Treo is checking for new mail. That's a problem of not having simultaneous voice and data. AT&T's Edge is the same way. If you are in an EVDO area you can check a setting that allows data to be interrupted by voice calls.
    You can also tell your phone to not check for mail automatically. That is what I did, still didn't help.


    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    One question about the 1.2 or 5.12 seconds polling time. If someone calls me on my phone, they will hear it ring for 12-15 seconds before it goes to voice mail. If my phone is polling the towers every 5.12 seconds or whatever, why doesn't it pick up that fact someone is calling me?
    Lets take a very simplistic example.

    Default SCI
    • Your phone polls the tower, no incoming calls.
    • Immediately after polling, I call you.
    • 5.12 seconds after I call you, your phone attempts to poll.
    • Due to whatever reason, your phone cannot connect to the tower.
      This could be due to a connection that got dropped for a second (it happens more often than you know, especially when traveling), mail or another program preventing the connection from being made, a program using up too many system resources, or about a dozen other reasons, take your pick. And these are things that effect all WM phones, not just the 800w.
    • 5.12 seconds goes by. It's now been over 10 seconds since I first initiated the call.
    • Your phone polls the tower and connects. You receive the missed call notification.


    SCI of 0 (1.28 second polling time)
    • Your phone polls the tower, no incoming calls.
    • Immediately after polling, I call you.
    • 1.28 seconds after I call you, your phone attempts to poll.
    • Due to whatever reason, your phone cannot connect to the tower.
    • 1.28 seconds goes by. It's now been 2.5 seconds since I first initiated the call.
    • Your phone polls the tower and still fails to connect.
    • 1.28 seconds goes by. It's now been 3.84 seconds since I first initiated the call.
    • Your phone polls the tower and still fails to connect.
    • 1.28 seconds goes by. It's now been 5.12 seconds since I first initiated the call.
    • Your phone polls the tower and still fails to connect.
    • 1.28 seconds goes by. It's now been 6.4 seconds since I first initiated the call.
    • Your phone polls the tower and still fails to connect.
    • 1.28 seconds goes by. It's now been 7.68 seconds since I first initiated the call.
    • Your phone polls the tower and still fails to connect.
    • 1.28 seconds goes by. It's now been 8.96 seconds since I first initiated the call.
    • Your phone polls the tower and still fails to connect.
    • 1.28 seconds goes by. It's now been over 10 seconds since I first initiated the call.
    • Your phone polls the tower and gets the missed call notification.


    In the first example, a single missed polling session results in a missed call.

    In the second example, it takes almost eight missed polling session to result in a missed call.

    Even if you assume a 25% chance that a polling session would not be completed for whatever reason (which would be absurdly high), that gives the first example a 25% chance of missing the call. With an SCI of zero, you have a 0.00152587890625% chance of missing a call.

    As I said, this is an extremely simplistic example, but it illustrates the difference between 0 and 3 quite nicely, and why changing that number makes such a huge difference.


    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    I have never had this problem with my 700wx or 755p, only the 800w. As for Sprint working on the towers in my area, they must have been spending a lot of time on them because I was missing calls all the time. Since I went back to the 755p, I haven't missed one. The very fact that "hacking" the phone from the Sprint defaults to improve your reception by itself shows there is a problem with the phone. If it was a wide spread Sprint problem, other users would be reporting the same problem.
    Previous Sprint phones had an SCI of around 2.

    I don't know why the 800w is defaulted to 3. Perhaps it was done in an attempt to reduce battery drain (and you can see from my example above how going from an SCI of three to zero means the phone will be using eight times as much power! ). Perhaps it was a simple mistake, and one of the developers clicked on 3 instead of 2 (certainly an easy mistake to make). Perhaps it was set to 3 because Verizon or Sprint requested it for a variety of reasons.

    We simply don't know why it was set this way. What we do know is that it's an easy fix.

    As I've said before, all phones have problems. But thanks to the openness of WM, and the expertise of some people here on the forums like Malatesta, we get the opportunity to fix many of the problems. If you switch to a different phone, you're just inheriting a different set of problems. (And trust me, you do not want to go down the road on that with the 700wx you used as an example above. I have a feeling I know far more about the flaws of the 700wx than just about anyone. )

    If you go to a closed system like Palm OS, and there is a bug/problem, you're basically at the mercy of the developer to fix it, very rarely do you have the opportunity to fix it yourself. I'm constantly amazed at how often I find fixes for WM out there. I was a Palm OS user for many years before switching to WM, and the difference in community support is simply astounding.

    It's the whole Linux VS Windows argument all over again....only this time Microsoft is the "open" operating system.
    Last edited by Ebag333; 12/31/2008 at 03:53 PM.
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