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  1.    #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    For this test qpst and flusihg cache not an issue because you can call the 800w into a cleared factory start with a hard reset. My killing of data involved turning from the a couple of means and I certainly could establish zero 1rx or evedo connection.
    QPST is absolutely an issue, because depending on what you enable you will get different results.


    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    On a hard reset with no data connection my first TTFF good GPS conditions non moving is about 13 minutes (typical factory start times of factory, clod, warm and hot start definitions). Subsequent starts on soft reset, under good gps conditions correspond to cold and warm tijmes of normal GPS (depending on expiration of data).

    Let's just do this one first, ok?

    a) Are you finding you cannot get a typocial first factory start TTFF of <15 minutes with hard reset and no data session?

    b) and or are you finding you are not getting cold start of >5 minutes after ephemeris has expired or been flushed with no data session allowed?

    c) and or are you finding you are not getting warm of >1 minute with current data not flushed and not expired?
    Again, give me the parameters of the test and I will be more than happy to give you my results.

    Simply hard resetting will not give me the same results, because I've enabled alternate modes through QPST that aren't factory.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Simply hard resetting will not give me the same results, because I've enabled alternate modes through QPST that aren't factory.
    I don't know why you are getting different results than everyone else including the Palm development people.

    You kind of have it backwards, since no one else has the problem you describe. Maybe I can help you troubleshoot your problem.

    Under what conditions are you getting a failure to acquire GPS if you are in sprint range but have disabled data. No one, here or at Palm has this problem. perhaps it is something you did in QPST, or you are putting your unit into a factory reset and not waiting long enough?

    If you have made so many changes with qpst the question is not what Palm and I and Sprint did to test it but what you did. We have all determined a data connection isn't necessary (reiterated on the Palm faq), but just a voice connection.

    What type of connection do you think you are getting the time on? the time is the same time as you get on the very first sprint cdma phones.

    You can turn off all data connections and get this time, it isn't carried on the evdo or 1x.
    Last edited by aero; 01/17/2009 at 07:56 AM.
  3.    #123  
    Okay...lets break this down.

    There's 3 different methods of GPS built into the 800w.

    aGPS, cached, and autonomous.

    If I disable aGPS and autonomous, I still instantly connect to GPS because it uses the cached information (assuming the cached info is good).

    That's not the same behaviour as if I only have aGPS enabled, I will get one result. If I only have autonomous enabled, I will get a completely different result.

    < < edit by dieter - unnecessary > >
    Last edited by Ebag333; 01/17/2009 at 11:59 AM.
  4. #124  
    I kept getting the "not ready" message after clicking write to phone. Did this happen to everyone else?
  5.    #125  
    Nope. At some point your phone got disconnected or something. Try reconnecting it to QPST.
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by TennesseeDeac View Post
    I kept getting the "not ready" message after clicking write to phone. Did this happen to everyone else?
    Wait a few seconds, so it can finish Writing To Phone, then you can disconnect.
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Okay...lets break this down.
    There's 3 different methods of GPS built into the 800w.
    aGPS, cached, and autonomous.
    If I disable aGPS and autonomous, I still instantly connect to GPS because it uses the cached information (assuming the cached info is good).
    That's not the same behaviour as if I only have aGPS enabled, I will get one result. If I only have autonomous enabled, I will get a completely different result.
    It's okay though, you're in good company. Apparently Palm doesn't understand how the 800w's GPS works either.
    First the last crack is not really needed. There are people at Palm who know quite a bit, in fact the exact issues, and for all you know they may have had correspondence with people here. You maybe are either taking the faq too seriously, when it is not a technical explanation nor does it even use the correct terms, and or may have not spoken to the people looking into this directly at the very top level.

    First you aren't using the terms the way they are typically used. It isn;t an insult but let's be clear: These are not "three different methods of GPS" those are three different ways of getting the almanac and ephemeris (and in some cases extended ephemeris and LTO and timing augmentation other than accurate time assistance).

    Also As we know, you cannot truly enable autonomous on the 800w, even with QPST and any thing else, you can only change the proportion of aGPS, whtehr you flush it, and where you get some of it from it from.

    Moreover I think the problem you are having an why some users are finding your tweak increases acquisition times in some cases is an increasingly known problem with aGPS, especially when roaming, your going to go through several failure cycles (which will be opaque) trying to get ephemeris and almanac and other aGPS from the tower and (or in some cases ip session) before your unit tries to get it from the sats, and in some cases maybe stopping our unit from getting it from the sats.

    My tests show you do not flush your almanac with a soft reset, but you can flush otherways. If you do that fully you are at factory. Are you on the west coast? because if so factory is going to be more like a condition between factory (12.5 minutes) and cold start (lets say two minutes), whereas on the east cost it is going to be more like factory since the initial search is based on west coast. The 800w once it gets its maditory time agps is checking how much alamanac and ephemris it has and opening channels for 8 sats it expects. It will look for quite a while before timing out to the next set.

    So to step back.
    1) there is literally no case (outdoors) where if you get a accurate time assistance signal from a tower that the 800w will not get a gps fix. It will always get a fix and absent inadvertently flushing all or some almanac (perhaps with a "tweak" or reset it will do so at cold or factory ore ven sometimes worse start times)
    2) there is literally no way to affect if you get that accurate time assist by using qpst or anything else. The claim that any teak opens up use of the GPS on any network where it didn't work before is not true. Either you are getting the time though 800w sceme of forcing it and therefore you will get a gps fix or you are not getting the time and wont.

    3) you can affect certain things with QPST Service Programming gpsone options. You can make acquisition times sligly better and smeteims WORSE.
    You may ask: Why? doesnt aGPS always help?
    The answer is no.

    here is your suggestion:
    #
    # Check the following boxes:
    Assistance-Cartesian
    GPS Almanac
    GPS Ephemeris
    GPS Almanac Correction
    Autonomous
    Do you realize that this creates extra searches, which are narrow for a reason?

    I have the advantage of having two devices. When I check all these boxes the 800w with those boxes checked often takes longer, (I can even watch per satellite direct or with calculated HDOP on several different diagnostic programs) sometimes much longer to get a fix. a) In some cases the device is flushing data that is already present and valid. b) In some cases it is attempting to aquire agps that the 800w does not use.

    The 800w has limits on the aGPS it calls for for specific reasons. It isn't really full gpsOne! There can be long timeouts before it tries to simply get it form the sats on existing almanac and or some ephemeris which can be very quick with cache and simply connecting to sats instead of agps intermediation!

    you may wish to consider asking why people turn of aGPS on devices with standalone GPS and aGPS. Why? because despite what you (and I think you are trying to do it logically) logically intuit, in practice aGPS this can cause longer TTFF.

    The aGPS on the 800w is really designed for one thing, more likely function and/or better TTFF in buildings and canyons and faster TTFF post reset and cache flush. In other cases it can actually cause problems. This is an established fact when when you enable non carrier supported modes you cause longer TTFF and worse accuracy and HDOP
  8. tli415's Avatar
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    #128  
    Does this stay in effect after a hard reset?
  9.    #129  
    Yup.

    It might get reset if you do an RTN reset (factory reset) though.
  10. tli415's Avatar
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    #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Yup.

    It might get reset if you do an RTN reset (factory reset) though.
    Awesome, thanks! My PIE disappeared (somehow) and I had to do a hard reset.
  11.    #131  
    Not a problem.
  12. isaacl's Avatar
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    #132  
    Quick, slightly OT question:
    Which GPS map software is the best?
    Thanks.
  13. tli415's Avatar
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    #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by isaacl View Post
    Quick, slightly OT question:
    Which GPS map software is the best?
    Thanks.
    Best for what?

    Personally, between Google Maps and Garmin XT I don't need anything else.

    Google Maps is great for finding specific locations like restaurants and seeing what they look like (live view). Garmin XT is better for longer trips out of town thanks to its turn-by-turn directions.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Yup.

    It might get reset if you do an RTN reset (factory reset) though.
    Ebag333, it does. I just did an RTN reset & had to do all the hacks again, but only took mins so no biggy.
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by tli415 View Post
    Best for what?

    Personally, between Google Maps and Garmin XT I don't need anything else.

    Google Maps is great for finding specific locations like restaurants and seeing what they look like (live view). Garmin XT is better for longer trips out of town thanks to its turn-by-turn directions.
    My own experience is google maps, plus either Garmin, TomTom or Navigon. My own choice is tomtom as it runs snappier

    Garmin
    Pro: is all around the better program
    Pro: and it is currently supprted.
    Pro: excellent touritng
    Pro: current maps
    Con: TomTom runs slower and lags a bit on my 800w

    TomTom:
    Pro: runs fast no lag
    Pro: good program
    Pro: excellent routing
    Neutr: current maps are around, but it is a goole is your friend type of thing
    Con: you need gpsgate

    Navigon:
    Pro: excellent interface
    Pro: runs snappy no lag
    Current maps are around
    Con: routing is not as good as TomTom and Garmin
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Did you mean to say that TomTom runs faster? Of course TomTom running slower would not be a Con for Garmin .

    With the true stand alone GPS on my Touch Pro, I've been eying up Garmin Mobile XT REALLY HARD. Do you have any idea how much updates for it are after purchase? I know the price could change a year or 2 from now, but I wonder just for ballpark purposes what the cost for updates is now, or has it even been out long enough to have updates to gauge further update price from? I'll probably buy Garmin XT before the next big road trip. It's good to know it provides better routing than Sprint Navigation/Telenav, because sometimes those Telenav routes make me scratch my head a little.
    Good catch I fixed it!
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post

    With the true stand alone GPS on my Touch Pro, I've been eying up Garmin Mobile XT REALLY HARD. Do you have any idea how much updates for it are after purchase? I know the price could change a year or 2 from now, but I wonder just for ballpark purposes what the cost for updates is now, or has it even been out long enough to have updates to gauge further update price from? I'll probably buy Garmin XT before the next big road trip. It's good to know it provides better routing than Sprint Navigation/Telenav, because sometimes those Telenav routes make me scratch my head a little.
    if youre a heavy user of gps, i could easily see spending the 100 bucks to get better maps, tracking and voice turn by turn.... but for people like me who use gps maybe 5 times a month, windows live search gets me anywhere i need to go.
  18. #138  
    Is there any consensus on this now? Is this worthwhile for a newbie 800w user? It seems like Ebag333 thinks it helps, aero doesn't....
  19.    #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by mogulman View Post
    Is there any consensus on this now? Is this worthwhile for a newbie 800w user? It seems like Ebag333 thinks it helps, aero doesn't....
    Oh, it works.....
  20. gjlowe's Avatar
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    #140  
    Personally, I reverted to the default settings as these changes seemed to really mess up my GPS altogether. I do appreciate Ebag333's contribution here, and my friend says it has helped him out a bunch, but for me, I am back to the factory default.
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