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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by gjlowe View Post
    Thanks jimh2000...unfortunately, all of my boxes are still checked when I did a "read from phone".
    What about the settings in Google Maps and the settings in the GPS settings menu?
    Have you tried another program like GPStoday to see how it works?
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    #102  
    Attached is a screenshot with the GPS settings from QPST. As for jimh2000's question, I have issues in Live Search and GPSToday as well.
    Attached Images Attached Images
  3.    #103  
    Okay...that's right...

    What's the GPS settings in the control panel?

    How about the GPS settings in ##GPS#?

    (And forgive me if you've already said this, but tried hard resetting?)
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    #104  
    I have tried the hard reset which did not improve the GPS functionality. I then used Sprite to restore the previous night's backup. The GPS settings under ##GPS# show:
    gpsapi.dll
    -1
    1
    Standalone
    255
    255
  5.    #105  
    How about the GPS settings in the control panel?
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    #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    How about the GPS settings in the control panel?
    Under the programs tab, the GPS is set to port GPD1, under the Hardware tab, the GPS Hardware port is set to Internal GPS Device, with the baud rate grayed out at 4800, and under the access tab, the checkbox is checked for Manage GPS Automatically
  7.    #107  
    Bah. That's all correct.

    I cannot explain why it didn't work for you. What I would try is going back into QPST and setting it back to defaults (only the one aGPS setting). Try it then, and see if you get a different result. If that works, then try adding the other options in again, and see if it helps.

    If it doesn't, you may (possibly) have a defective device.
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    #108  
    Well..this evening I tried something else...I just launched Live Search and let it set trying to acquire my location. I don't know how long it took, but about an hour later I checked the phone and it had gotten my location... Perhaps it is doing a cold start?
  9. #109  
    Are you inside of a large building?
    Try this - in google maps change the settings to manual and then ttry to turn on GPS, you will get s screen that says google can't connect. Then go back to auto mode and see if google will connect.
  10. gjlowe's Avatar
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    #110  
    jimh2000-- I am not in a big building. I will definitely try out your test the next time the GPS is broken and report back.
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    ##GPS# is where you can clear the cached data. I've deleted the data with no problems. Make sure you don't change any of the settings tho (such as going to MS-Based, etc).

    I've changed them and had no problems (which is weird because someone else stated that changing them will brick your GPS....but that's another subject), but I figure it's probably setup that way for a reason.

    The whole "dancing around" thing is pretty normal, especially if you have less sats. The more sats I have the less it seems to happen.
    I have since cleared my cache data and changed back to the original settings. I don't really see much of a change at all in both acquisition time and accuracy. I think the variance in accuracy when I changed my settings could be attributed to the fact that when I was noticing it being off I was downtown around quite a few tall buildings. Ultimately, my performance seems the same with or without the hack. If I start seeing a noticeable difference in acquisition time then I might revert back to the hack. Thanks to all of you guys for your continued help.
  12.    #112  
    Without the hack applied GPS will not work on many roaming networks.

    (Just an FYI)
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Without the hack applied GPS will not work on many roaming networks.

    (Just an FYI)
    What is applied GPS so I know whether or not I want it? I have done a little research on it but have not found anything completely concrete. Correct me if I am wrong but is it being able to start a GPS signal from another carrier's tower? I definitely don't know enough about GPS to be sure so I thought I would just ask since it seems like you know more than I do on the topic.
  14. #114  
    bpdamas, Ebag means means he feels that:

    without the hack applied, GPS will not work ion many roaming network.

    He is not referring to something called "applied GPS".

    My testing on the hack shows no difference, what my testing shows is that without the hack places where one formerly had a problem in July and August, one no longer does. I think this is due to changes in some residual older towers that were not relaying the required aGPS, accurate time assistance aGPS, in exactly the same way. This is similar to the case where in certain situations certain airaves was not relaying system time correctly for the 800w aGPS, something adjusted in later firmware updates.
  15.    #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    without the hack applied, GPS will not work ion many roaming network.

    He is not referring to something called "applied GPS".
    Correct.



    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    My testing on the hack shows no difference, what my testing shows is that without the hack places where one formerly had a problem in July and August, one no longer does. I think this is due to changes in some residual older towers that were not relaying the required aGPS, accurate time assistance aGPS, in exactly the same way. This is similar to the case where in certain situations certain airaves was not relaying system time correctly for the 800w aGPS, something adjusted in later firmware updates.
    The towers here have not changed. Network time is still being passed (and always has been), but GPS without cached or autonomous mode enabled will not function.

    Roaming networks where data works, the assisted mode of GPS has always functioned. Roaming networks where data does not work requires cached and/or autonomous modes to be enabled to work properly.

    Roaming networks without data are becoming further and fewer between, so it's probably not that big of a deal for most people.
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Roaming networks where data does not work requires cached and/or autonomous modes to be enabled to work properly.
    Not for the primary required aGPS which uses only accurate time assist aGPS for which you do not need any data connection.

    It is testable by anyone with a GPS program that does not require a data connection. Garmin, Igo, Navigon, GPSgate, GPSToday and diagnostic GPS programs achieve a GPS lock on my 800w, in 5 seconds hot and in about 40 seconds to one minute cold in good conditions with data not connected and in fact disabled by multiple redundant methods. In fact one can do this with data disabled for a days or resets (no usable old data) with data disabled

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Roaming networks where data works, the assisted mode of GPS has always functioned.
    Again there is an required assisted mode that uses the non data connection and an optional one that uses the data connection.

    So only required assisted mode of aGPS doesn't even use a data connection and is unaffected by this workaround/hack. The secondary mode of aGPS, optional download of ephemeris and almanac has always functioned on roaming networks where aGPS functions

    Some roaming, because of changes in tower methods of sending time stamp, did not send the non data connectiontime stamp signal required in the one required aGPS mode, properly. A good prl can lower the incidence of this occurring.

    This is related to time stamp on some airwaves resulting in incorrect time on handsets, and why when roaming your handset can display the time incorrectly. The incidence of this is decreasing.


    lets get some facts and terms as they are used in standard texts on GPS and aGPS:
    Standalone GPS will start and work continue to work with network connection whatsoever
    AGPS: GPS uses assistance information, from either the non data connection or data connections to o calculations off of the device or on the device with certain information sent by carrier.
    The 800w has an aGPS requirement
    The 800w's form of aGPS required is NOT a data connection but a time transmission from the tower, the same time as you can get on a dumbphone with no data capability, and the same as you can in fact obtain with no account
    The 800w uses optionally and additionally several other forms of aGPS in which it takes almanac and ephemeris from the network instead of the satellites.
    If the almanac and ephemeris has been expired or flushed, and 800w cannot get the new ephemeris and almanac from the network, it is perfectly capable of getting and storing the almanac and ephemeris itself for the satellites alone.

    You need zero data connection, roaming or otherwise for the 800w to start and work
  17.    #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    You need zero data connection, roaming or otherwise for the 800w to start and work
    Why don't you give me your testing methods on how you determined this.

    Since you're so confidant in your statements, it should be easy for you to do so.
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Why don't you give me your testing methods on how you determined this.
    Since you're so confidant in your statements, it should be easy for you to do so.
    I tested it by switching off data connections in every way, running a soft reset, and getting a lock with gpsgate, navigon at native, etc.

    You do realize you can get the micros seconds accurate GPS time relayed from sats to CDMA towers without a data connection right? I think you are using a mistaken supposition as to how towers get the time from Sats and relay that time to devices/ It is in fact embedded within the same signaling you use for voice.

    One of our clients uses common CDMA reception dongle made only to grab the same microseconds accura time from CDMA towers -- sopehting that requires no realtiuonship or payment to Sprint or Verizon and certianly no data connection. They actually use that attomic time from GPS satellites collected by a verizon tower and transmitted, paying verizon noting, not connected to verizons servers in any way, and to then relay as their NNTP server to other machines.

    I am not talking about methods to better insure the optional IP served almanac and ephemeris which normally comes through and in some cases which may not. I am talking about the non ip served Accurate time assistance aGPS, without which the 800w won't even start to try and grab ephemris from the sats itself. I know this is exactly the GPS relayed atomic clock information which is uniquely forced on the 800w (accidentally or intentionally, but in any cases mandatory) to be taken second hand from the towers, vs first hand from the GPS sats as the cheapest handlheld GPS units can do quite easily.

    Standalone GPS time acquisition: atomic time direct from GPS sats
    800w Tme acquisition: attomic time second hand from only from Towers, which in turn acquire it from GPS sats and embed it in their normal signals

    These things: which have been around almost as long as CDMA, work with no data connection at all. you use them and don't pay a nickel to cell provider to grab the GPS time second hand. there on patents on similar devices. the 800w (and every cell phone including the dumbest cdma dumb phone long before data connections) is doing the same thing
    Last edited by aero; 01/16/2009 at 04:35 PM.
  19.    #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    I tested it by switching off data connections in every way, running a soft reset, and getting a lock with gpsgate, navigon at native, etc.
    That tells me nothing about your testing methods.

    What options enabled in QPST?

    GPS cache cleared?

    Roaming or Sprint towers?

    Did you just disconnect data, or actually block it?
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    That tells me nothing about your testing methods.

    What options enabled in QPST?

    GPS cache cleared?

    Roaming or Sprint towers?

    Did you just disconnect data, or actually block it?
    Let's deal with the question of the aGPS time requirement first, because I understand you saying that you are having problems getting GPS to work without a data connection. I do not have that problem as long as I get a voice connection.

    [the second question on catching the second, non required aGPS, the almanac and ephemeris via servers is different and we can talk about that next if you like]

    For this test qpst and flusihg cache not an issue because you can call the 800w into a cleared factory start with a hard reset. My killing of data involved turning from the a couple of means and I certainly could establish zero 1rx or evedo connection.

    On a hard reset with no data connection my first TTFF good GPS conditions non moving is about 13 minutes (typical factory start times of factory, clod, warm and hot start definitions). Subsequent starts on soft reset, under good gps conditions correspond to cold and warm tijmes of normal GPS (depending on expiration of data).

    Let's just do this one first, ok?

    a) Are you finding you cannot get a typocial first factory start TTFF of <15 minutes with hard reset and no data session?

    b) and or are you finding you are not getting cold start of >5 minutes after ephemeris has expired or been flushed with no data session allowed?

    c) and or are you finding you are not getting warm of >1 minute with current data not flushed and not expired?

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