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  1. gbp
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    #61  
    Ebagg,
    I have an issue with the RevA option ( the one ##EVDO#) while using the SPRINT AIRAVE at home. The AIRAVE is linked to a GPS receiver.
    So I expected the GPS to work fine. But it didn't

    After turning on the RevA option on AIRAVE connection,
    My regular GPS ( i.e. aGPS) stopped working , and worse more , I am not getting any calls . The voicemail stopped working too.
    It was only after I put the broadband option back to Automatic that everything ( GPS, phone calls and voice mail started working).

    On the other hand , SPRINT TV was not working in my home before I turned on the RevA due to poor signal. But after turning on the RevA the TV started working fine but I loose GPS, Voice calls ... etc.

    Bottom line the I either get TV only or the others with this AIRAVE thing.

    All of these little tricks fail to live up to the expectation when the AIRAVE angle is thrown into the mix.
    I am going to try using the GPS outside today, but I am afraid that I have to move really far away for the phone to be hooked to a real tower.
    Last edited by gbp; 12/29/2008 at 10:31 AM. Reason: typos
  2. gjlowe's Avatar
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    #62  
    As I understand, Airrave only works on 1xRTT, not EVDO. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
  3.    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Ebagg,
    I have an issue with the RevA option ( the one ##EVDO#) while using the SPRINT AIRAVE at home. The AIRAVE is linked to a GPS receiver.
    So I expected the GPS to work fine. But it didn't

    After turning on the RevA option on AIRAVE connection,
    My regular GPS ( i.e. aGPS) stopped working , and worse more , I am not getting any calls . The voicemail stopped working too.
    It was only after I put the broadband option back to Automatic that everything ( GPS, phone calls and voice mail started working).
    You should not be setting the broadband setting to anything other than automatic. The only think you should be doing here is checking the box for Rev. A.


    Quote Originally Posted by gjlowe View Post
    As I understand, Airrave only works on 1xRTT, not EVDO. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
    AirRave is only 1x, not EVDO.

    I would somewhat expect it to work, as theoretically it should be passing the system time (especially with the GPS tweak as the 800w can fall back on standalone GPS while on a 1x network).
  4. gjlowe's Avatar
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    #64  
    If this post is off topic, I apologize, and please direct me to start a new thread, but if you go into the GPS configs by dialing ##GPS# on the 800w, then open the menu -> Settings there is a drop down menu for "Fix Mode" with the options being Standalone, Ms-Assisted, and MS-Based. Does this have anything to do with actual Standalone GPS?
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by gjlowe View Post
    If this post is off topic, I apologize, and please direct me to start a new thread, but if you go into the GPS configs by dialing ##GPS# on the 800w, then open the menu -> Settings there is a drop down menu for "Fix Mode" with the options being Standalone, Ms-Assisted, and MS-Based. Does this have anything to do with actual Standalone GPS?
    This is probably where the GPS is "broken" on the 800w as mine is default at "Standalone" and obviously that doesn't work in the terms understood b GPS users.

    I'm curious about what happens if we switch to MS-Based or MS-Assisted. I'd expect not much, but could be interesting. Or messing with those other settings....ebag?

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  6.    #66  
    MS-Based and MS-Assisted are part of the assisted GPS (as I'm sure Mal already knows ), and don't really have anything to do with standalone.

    I've played with those, and while I don't remember the results I also don't recall it fixing anything. I'll play around with them some more, but I believe that the problem with the standalone GPS lives at the driver/firmware level rather than the software/config level.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by amdxmania View Post
    i personally never had much problem locking the gps position. normally it takes me around 15 seconds w/out any thing =\
    I guess I am lucky??
    Not lucky, that is typical aGPS.
    There are several aGPS modes, from simple aGPS methods like relaying system time via the system to more to advanced ip relayed data.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    I would somewhat expect it to work, as theoretically it should be passing the system time (especially with the GPS tweak as the 800w can fall back on standalone GPS while on a 1x network).
    The 800w is not "falling back on standalone GPS on the 1x. It is using system time type aGPS with system time is not transferred by ip type connection. it is transferred and available through any non data cdma connection. Not all assisted modes require a data connection. e.g. The 800w basic assisted mode (system time) does not where its other aGPS modes do.
    That is why it works on most roaming and why it works sometimes on airave and sometimes not.
  8.    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    The 800w is not "falling back on standalone GPS on the 1x. It is using system time type aGPS with system time is not transferred by ip type connection. it is transferred and available through any non data cdma connection. Not all assisted modes require a data connection. e.g. The 800w basic assisted mode (system time) does not where its other aGPS modes do.
    That is why it works on most roaming and why it works sometimes on airave and sometimes not.
    That's not quite correct.

    Standalone GPS simply (in this very specific case) means that it is not using the aGPS server, and it is not using cached GPS data.

    There is no terminology for using-standalone-gps-methods-for-gps-acquisition-but-still-using-the-network-time. An oversight, I'm sure.

    System time also does not come from the aGPS server. aGPS requires a data connection, that is why when it attempts to use aGPS it attempts a data connection. This is why GPS would fail on network connections where there is no data, or where the data connection cannot be made (such as some of the very old 1x towers around here). System time was there (so GPS could be "primed"), but the aGPS server was not reachable. With the change through QPST it enables the standalone portion of the GPS (along with using the cached data).

    Also worth pointing out is that system time is not a part of GPS. For some odd reason, the 800w relies on the system time instead of the built in device time for starting GPS, but all GPS requires (whether it's gpsONE, cached data, aGPS, or standalone GPS) is an accurate time. GPS doesn't care where the time comes from, just that it has it. Unfortunately the drivers/firmware of the 800w's GPS appear to look only at the system time for that time value, and not at the device time. That's not assisted GPS, unless you consider ALL GPS devices "assisted" because they all rely on an accurate time.

    Is it true, full blown standalone? No.

    Is it nearly standalone? You betcha.

    You are free to repeat my experiments above in testing the standalone portion of the GPS. It's quite easy to do, and doesn't require a hard reset, just put yourself on a roaming network, disable data, clear GPS cache, and test.
  9. #69  
    Thank you again! Really appreciate all the help you have put into the 800w!
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Is it true, full blown standalone? No.
    Darn. Hopefully Palm is still working on this bug.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    [*]Your SPC/MSL code. Since the 800w uses an MESID, the normal tools won't work for this. I simply called Sprint, selected the option for tech support, kept drilling down until I got a tech, and asked for it. I told him that I needed to do a factory (also known as an RTN) reset. He happily provided it to me. If they question you about it, you can tell them that you need to reset it and have all the instructions in front of you, you just need the MSL.
    They actually refused to give me the MSL because it is "used to unlock phones", though I followed these instructions. They demanded to know what was wrong with the phone. Any other ideas? Should I just keep trying to get a tech who isn't so dang uptight? Thanks.
  12.    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by AS329 View Post
    They actually refused to give me the MSL because it is "used to unlock phones", though I followed these instructions. They demanded to know what was wrong with the phone. Any other ideas? Should I just keep trying to get a tech who isn't so dang uptight? Thanks.
    Yes. I would just hang up and call back.


    You can tell them that you need it (if they ask) because you're experiencing some odd behavior such as not being able to connect to the data network, and you believe your phone was programmed incorrectly when you purchased it.

    I told the tech that I was familiar with the "factory reset" process, as I had done it for my 700wx and had all the information in front of me, I just needed the MSL.

    You could also try the Sprint store.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Standalone GPS simply (in this very specific case) means that it is not using the aGPS server, and it is not using cached GPS data.

    There is no terminology for using-standalone-gps-methods-for-gps-acquisition-but-still-using-the-network-time. An oversight, I'm sure.
    LOL, wrong, that is like saying:
    There is no terminology for using-standalone-gps-methods-for-gps-acquisition-but-still-using-the-ephemeris download. An oversight, I'm sure.
    Downloading network time is a type of aGPS. In technical, scholarly engineering and patent discussions of aGPS types this type of aGPS is "accurate time assistance" aGPS.

    Don't say there isn't any terminology for it, when there is: aGPS

    IP session to a server is not the only type of aGPS, there are many types.

    Assisting in initial TTFF, by sending mobile carrier sending accurate time, and or ephemeris and or almanac are all forms of aGPS, as is full position calculation off the device. Requiring any of those for first fix precludes the unit from being standalone.

    Standalone on the other hand is defined as not requiring a connection outside of satellites. Your method still requires it. It is not standalone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Also worth pointing out is that system time is not a part of GPS.
    That is true. It is not part of standalone gPS, it is a form of aGPS.


    I still want to know where you got your 30 minute numbers on the 800w. As below:
    Typical times for GPS are 15-30 minutes for cold start, 5-15 minutes for warm start (have the info on where the satellites used to be, but don't have information on where they are now), and 30 seconds to 5 minutes for aGPS.
    This is confused and incorrect. Those are not typical times for GPS. factory starts are about 12-13 minutes. cold starts optimal are 45 seconds uninterrupted contact. Warm starts are 22 seconds and hot starts are typically instant <12 seconds. Those are published times for typical GPS. They are the benchmarks one sees on GPS forums.
    http://www.navigadget.com/index.php/...e-to-first-fix
    Last edited by aero; 01/03/2009 at 06:32 PM.
  14. #74  
    I've never found the aGPS on the Treo 800w to be any more faster than the many stand alone GPS units I've used. And stand alone units I've used never needed 5 minutes during cold or warm start. To me, the only advantage I've seen in aGPS based on personal use experience, is getting location information indoors, but I can't say I've found the Treo 800w's aGPS to lock location much faster than stand alone units I've used in my own experiences. And even with the 800w, I've found after a reset, that sometimes it's unable to get a GPS lock indoors and I have to go to a window to get a location lock. Sometimes when indoors, the 800w can run for 5 minutes without a lock and eventually timeout, but going to a window sometimes "helps" if I'm trying to use the Treo 800w aGPS indoors after even a soft reset. I'm just speaking from personal experience, but really at the end of the day that's all that matters, is how it works for the individual user.
  15. #75  
    Not to doubt you, I'm sure you are truthfully stating your personal experiences. But, my personal experience is that, even indoors, my 800w hardly ever takes more than 30 seconds to lock over 8 sats, and usually much less time than that.

    Maybe it's a matter of location.

    Also, as a side note, the other day I got a lock on 1 satalite, but enough to get a fix on my location, after the following steps:

    Set to Roaming Only
    Disable data connection
    Turn off radio
    soft reset
    start GPS via GPS Toggle
    Sart Microsoft Pocket Streets & Trips and Initiate GPS
    wait at least 30 minutes (Yeah, I had some time to kill while on a job at 4am)
    GPS:ON LOCK:1

    I've duplicated it a few time just to make sure I was correct, but found that it doesn't work every time. Probably only about 4 out of my 7 tests. Don't know why, but it seems to be VERY flakey doing it that way. Also, after it locked that 1 satalite, it would NOT track my location as I moved away from the location where it locked.

    So, is that getting closer to Standalone GPS? I don't know, but at least I know that if I'm ever lost in the beautiful San Bernardino mountains I should be able to get enough of a location fix to determine my whereabouts and know how to get out.
    Last edited by Malachi; 01/03/2009 at 10:18 PM.
  16. #76  
    The discussion can continue in this other thread.

    I'll say more there.
  17. #77  
    Whooh. That was a long read. I was crossing my fingers that someone asked my question about this hack but came up with nothing.

    I have successfully applied the hack and wonder if anyone is experiencing similar problems. My gps location seems to be less accurate after I have installed the hack. Btw, this is all in relation to google maps. Before I applied the hack my google maps gps location did not seem to be off by more than 0-15 feet. After the hack I have been off more than 50 feet at times. This seems to be only when I am moving. Walking down the street it would say I was on the other side of the street (a four lane street) and in the parking lot next to it. Also, while driving it seems like it is lagging now and not keeping up with my car. I am going to do some more tests with the hack applied and then do some tests with it off. Is there anyone else experiencing these problems after applying this hack?
  18. #78  
    Back on topic...
    Quote Originally Posted by bpdamas View Post
    My gps location seems to be less accurate after I have installed the hack. Btw, this is all in relation to google maps.,,,After the hack I have been off more than 50 feet at times.
    I would say those distances fall in line with my results too (using Google Maps/Live Search) (Currently I'm in a valley though, so lots of distortion).

    It does change a bit the longer I have it on (which is not unusual). Unfortunately I can't say if it is better or worse than original, as I don't recall it being too accurate in the past prior to the hack either, but perhaps it is. Let us know if you notice anything.

    Last night and last week when driving it seemed dead on though.

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  19.    #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by bpdamas View Post
    Is there anyone else experiencing these problems after applying this hack?
    Quite the opposite.

    But I went from about 20-100 feet, to about 0 to 50 feet. I would say that if you're within 100 feet that's acceptable, and if you're within 50 feet that's normal (post hack).

    Did you make sure to enable all the options as instructed? (Both aGPS and all 3 cached.)
  20. santos's Avatar
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    #80  
    I've had this hack on for a few days now and I do have to say GPS acquisition time is considerably faster than without the hack.

    Thanks for the continued poking into the 800w Ebag & Mal. I can't wait to see what you guys come up with next.

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