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  1. #441  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    I wonder if Verizon killed the 800w after finding so many bugs in it? Sprint looks like they either got suckered into offering it or their beta testers did their normal, subpar job of testing.
    Maybe Samsung did it cheaper?

    Speaking of Verizon killing things because of bugs, maybe that's why they killed the Diamond?

    Looks like Big Red passed on that lemon for the much superior Omnia. Smart move on their part.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 01/06/2009 at 02:34 AM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  2. #442  
    Well there were3 leaks on the 800w becasue because it was a long delayed item. People watched the progress.

    Why would anyone be risking Violating NDA etc if the Sprint Version of the Pro is going to be the same in features and look?

    As far as 800w inventory and Sprint cutting back on stock, from what I know iof this kind of prodcution is that it is done in contracted numbers.

    Palm contracted the 800w to the third party factory a certain number. One possible scenario: They had them moving through production (as you have noted the casing is the very last thing) while Verizon tested them and Verizon decided they had too many problems, and or the handset competition had moved further along. Palm then exercised its option to sell to another provider, goes to Sprint, and makes an offer that is low enough for Sprint to pick it up.

    But it is very possible only a certain number were produced and production stopped. these contract makers move onto other things. A second run could have been optioned at a higher per unit or lower per unit costs and never exercised.


    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I think he's referring to this leaked doc (see below). And the device was actually spotted in-testing on Verizon by someone here on an airplane (it was one of the first hands-on reports). The Verizon thing was strange because of the sheet below, another roadmap leak from PhoneArena and some hands on reports, yet it just...disappeared. Same with the Palm Wanda...just poof. No word from Verizon, Vodafone or Palm, they were just ended.

    I think the point being is until we actually get some more "official" info from...well anyone, it's always okay to be skeptical.

    Palm has had phones canceled on them (Verizon) and has canceled some of their own (Elevation Partners), so anything is possible. I can see Palm downplaying it a bit with "Nova" around, but it is still very strange that a device that has been in testing for ~2 months (and 19 days left to release) has had no leaks from anyone and no one has even spotted it in the wild.

    I also don't think it's necessarily a 800w inventory issue. They knew about this roll out months ago and would have cut back stock to appropriately prepare. I suppose Thursday will be the big day if there were to be one, so we should know by then I would imagine.

  3. #443  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Yup, that's one of many docs that people pointed to for months saying "Hey look! We're getting a Verizon 800w!"

    If we go by the quantity and quality of the leaked docs and spotted units, then the Verizon 800w was as good as it got (better even than the Sprint 800w).
    Apples and oranges. The 800w roll was nearly a one year process and the phone was a new concept, not a new carrier version of a current phone. Verizon is much much bigger than sprint with many more employees as well. more employees, more contractors all equal more opportunity to leak.

    As far as the 850e, that makes sense to me.
    Last edited by aero; 01/06/2009 at 06:35 AM.
  4. #444  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Maybe Samsung did it cheaper?

    Speaking of Verizon killing things because of bugs, maybe that's why they killed the Diamond?

    Looks like Big Red passed on that lemon for the much superior Omnia. Smart move on their part.
    I wish that Sprint would get the Omnia. I wonder if their getting suckered into carrying the 800w precluded them from getting the Omnia? Sure hope not because that would be a huge blunder.
  5. #445  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Verizon had the 800w for longer than Sprint, by all indications.
    We don't know that at all. Verizon could simply have had the initial option and simply been the expected buyer. Palm hasn't kept either major cdma player from buying, they have simply worked out three month advance exclusives. One would expect Sprint to have been aware of the specs all along.

    Of both carriers considering the device, at some point, for some reason Verizon dropped out leaving only Sprint.

    Reasons might include the 25 or so of bugs, problem, shortcomings documented and discussed on these forums and attested to by Sprint techs noting high returns.

    Also included might be issues not pejorative to the device per se. For example there are consumer advantages to WM that are disadvantages to the carrier, especially walled garden revenue carriers like Verizon. Registry hacks to get at free PAM are bad enough, but free standing easy to install third party programs that do it for you can lose the carrier significant money. so to can free standing well known GPS programs on WM.

    Verizon may have had to pay more if it exercised its three month initial exclusive, and Sprint most likely paid less.
  6. #446  
    Quote Originally Posted by brennj4 View Post

    The sprint rep did not try to hide the fact that the phones were total lemons. they have a huge stockpile of returns. He told me the phone was being discontinued in the next few weeks. He offered to replace all of the 800w's with HTC Touch Pro as a straight swap, even though it has been 6 months. I am sure a lot of that has to do with the fact that we are a large account but it confirms the touch pro on sprint and that the 800w is/was a flaming piece of garbage and is going end of life. It is a shame too. It is really a nice device when it works well. It is snappy, has good features. I am not looking forward to the brickyness of the touch pro, but it has some nice looking features.
    Good Sprint was straight up with you about it and you got swapped to Touch Pro's. You might want to look at TouchPal, it's a nice graphical keyboard for the Touch Pro.

    You having the leverage of a large account, were given much better service than many who have complained to Sprint.

    You fully confirm what many of us already knew. The 800w is a dud on the way out.

    I just wish i had not spent over $100 on accessories for the 800w. Anyone need some accessories for the 800w? all item must go!
    Ebay is the answer. Sell it all on Ebay.

    And for any of you little fish who have had problems getting Sprint and/or Palm to help you get rid of the 800w and you desire to get rid of it. PM me or I can be reached at an e-mail address I've setup
    darnell2009 [put an at symbol here] hushmail.com.
    Last edited by darnell; 01/06/2009 at 10:19 AM.
  7. #447  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    I wonder if their getting suckered into carrying the 800w precluded them from getting the Omnia?
    You are aware that the Omnia is a black slab device and the 800w front-qwerty, correct? Those are different classes of devices, not sure if you knew that.

    It would be more likely they got hustled into the Diamond, which prevented them from getting the superior Omnia.
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Why would anyone be risking Violating NDA etc if the Sprint Version of the Pro is going to be the same in features and look?
    The point is this: regardless of motivation or risk, there are always internal leaks of upcoming devices, usually in the form of pictures, hands on, guides, testing, promotional materials, etc.

    So far, the Treo Pro is inexplicably the exception here. It's just very odd.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  8. #448  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    I wonder if Verizon killed the 800w after finding so many bugs in it? Sprint looks like they either got suckered into offering it or their beta testers did their normal, subpar job of testing.
    Seems Verizon just gave it the thumbs down, while Sprint felt Windows Mobile 6.1 would make it better. Looks as if much was still missed in Sprint's testing even after the WM 6.1 upgrade.

    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post

    Reasons might include the 25 or so of bugs, problem, shortcomings documented and discussed on these forums and attested to by Sprint techs noting high returns.
    So with folks like brennj4 they're being offered Touch Pros and Sprint is pushing the Treo Pro out to replace the 800w soon.
  9. #449  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Apples and oranges. The 800w roll was nearly a one year process and the phone was a new concept, not a new carrier version of a current phone.
    Ahhh, I see. So the CDMA Treo Pro has been out a while then, and isn't a new concept.

    GSM to CDMA is completely different. Different radio, different hardware, different drivers, different firmware, often different stats (look at the Touch Pro). Comparing CDMA to GSM is comparing apples to oranges.


    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    As far as the 850e, that makes sense to me.
    How does e make sense? Where have we ever seen a CDMA Treo named XXXe?
  10. #450  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Ahhh, I see. So the CDMA Treo Pro has been out a while then, and isn't a new concept.
    Not when it comes to press. CDMA to GSM and visa versa are not shattering events.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    How does e make sense? Where have we ever seen a CDMA Treo named XXXe?
    Um, in the case of the handset we are discussing
  11. #451  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Not when it comes to press. CDMA to GSM and visa versa are not shattering events.
    Oooh, I get it. In the case of press CDMA and GSM are equal.

    And I guess that makes "1 year" and "new concept" equal too.


    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Um, in the case of the handset we are discussing
    You can't point to one case and say that's "normal" or "expected" or "makes sense".

    Especially when that one case doesn't even exist to the general public yet!

    There has be zero cases of a Treo e.

    That'd be like me posting a DSL report of a Treo 900euts, and going "hmm, that euts part sure makes sense! Palm has a history of using euts because this entry right here shows they do." That's called circular logic. It's like the rule: "You can't define a word using the word itself."

    It doesn't make any sense at all! None! Zip! Zero! Zilch!

    There are three possible explanations:

    1. It's a spoof/fake. (Incredibly easy to do, you can make DSL reports say anything you want.)
    2. When building the ROM, someone fat fingered the entry.
    3. Palm went against every naming convention they have ever had to choose a random letter that makes no sense compared to the rest of their CDMA WM Treos.


    Two of those options are equally likely (at least to us, as we have no evidence one way or the other). The third is ridiculous, though I suppose within the realm of possibility.

    While there are possible explanations for the DSL Reports entry, the entry--in and of itself--makes no sense what-so-ever.
  12. #452  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Oooh, I get it. In the case of press CDMA and GSM are equal.
    And I guess that makes "1 year" and "new concept" equal too.
    "oooh"? What makes you say GSM and CDMA are equal? There are quite a few differences.
    If you haven't noticed -- -- Palm is releasing a new operating system and many companies are also release new products with CES around the corner. A product revision from GSM to CDMA, something that happened hundreds of times in the past few years without much fanfare, is not exactly going to be huge news.

    As I said Palm marketers are busy stuffing swag for Nova, not rushing to to flog a story that is something of an embarrassment (replacement of the 800w).




    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    There has be zero cases of a Treo e.

    That'd be like me posting a DSL report of a Treo 900euts, and going "hmm, that euts part sure makes sense! Palm has a history of using euts because this entry right here shows they do." That's called circular logic. It's like the rule: "You can't define a word using the word itself."
    I don't know why you are so concerned with whether they call it an "e" or not or what it means.

    I think we all agree that Palm (obviously) and Sprint (certainly) are just are happy it is not 800w!
  13. #453  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    I don't know why you are so concerned with whether they call it an "e" or not or what it means.
    So you wouldn't question at all if a Palm Treo 900eut showed up on DSL reports.

    Hey, I got some land to sell you....



    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    I think we all agree that Palm (obviously) and Sprint (certainly) are just are happy it is not 800w!
    No, we don't all agree that Palm (obviously) and Sprint (certainly) are just as happy it is not an 800w!


    Until we see proof of the Sprint Treo Pro (and proof would be either company officially announcing it, or the actual release), then I will continue to be skeptical. Just like I was with the 800w before it was released.

    Sorry if not blindly believing everything that's there makes me the skeptic, but I've seen these things not happen far too often to just accept every single rumor as truth. If I did that I'd still be expecting a Verizon 800w (and it's worth restating that there was far more evidence of a Verizon 800w than there is of a Sprint Treo Pro....and none of that evidence was questionable or incorrect, such as the DSL Report sighting or the incorrect network on the Palm page).
  14. #454  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    So you wouldn't question at all if a Palm Treo 900eut showed up on DSL reports.
    Hey, I got some land to sell you....
    What is the purpose of the swipes? I can generate a dsl report showing I am connecting from the scholarship enterprise/ we all knew that could be forged. The point is that when you have mods and site editors her at treo central point to it as evidence, with front page articles, it is as good or as bad as anything that has been leaked or noticed on any other handset.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Until we see proof of the Sprint Treo Pro (and proof would be either company officially announcing it, or the actual release), then I will continue to be skeptical. Just like I was with the 800w before it was released.

    Sorry if not blindly believing everything that's there makes me the skeptic, but I've seen these things not happen far too often to just accept every single rumor as truth.
    Look if you want to insult Treo Central WM experts editors as "blindly believing everything" or if you want to say Dieter or Nate are "accept every single rumor as truth" that is up to you.

    I would say they seem to be doing what most of us are doing. We all know that it is likely to come. Most think that it is likly that Sprint is not in love with the 800w. Mal predicted early first quarter and that seems to be indicated. And like with most rumored releases there are half a dozen indications, some of which maybe hoaxes or not, that Jan 25 is

    I have a different confirmation I don't want to get into. I would bet the Treo central and WMexperts people have gotten other nods from sources that would know but which they can't use. Like all confirmations mine isn't 100% but I am giving it the benefit of the doubt.

    look, for all we know Palm's check to HTC bounced!



    If I did that I'd still be expecting a Verizon 800w (and it's worth restating that there was far more evidence of a Verizon 800w than there is of a Sprint Treo Pro....and none of that evidence was questionable or incorrect, such as the DSL Report sighting or the incorrect network on the Palm page).[/QUOTE]
  15. #455  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Look if you want to insult Treo Central WM experts editors as "blindly believing everything" or if you want to say Dieter or Nate are "accept every single rumor as truth" that is up to you.
    The good folks over at WMExpert are very careful to (usually) say what's rumor and what's not. But they don't get paid for publishing only what's provable fact (which would basically be limited to press releases), if they did then they'd be publishing maybe once a week.

    They get paid to publish news, and any seasoned news reporter--or anyone who deals with the news on a regular basis--will tell you that news and fact only coincide coincidentally .

    Heck, even Mal has said that he doesn't completely buy into everything about the Sprint Treo Pro release. Look up a few posts at his questioning about the lack of information on it compared to any other soon-to-be-released phone. That right there shows that he doesn't blindly believe everything.
  16. #456  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Seems Verizon just gave it the thumbs down, while Sprint felt Windows Mobile 6.1 would make it better. Looks as if much was still missed in Sprint's testing even after the WM 6.1 upgrade.



    So with folks like brennj4 they're being offered Touch Pros and Sprint is pushing the Treo Pro out to replace the 800w soon.
    Sounds plausible. Still a foolish decision by Sprint to hope that the multitude of 800w bugs would magically be fixed by moving to WM6.1. Now they've taken a bath on all of the 800w replacements they've been forced to give out up to this point and even more to come once the Treo Pro is released.
  17. #457  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    The good folks over at WMExpert are very careful to (usually) say what's rumor and what's not. .
    Well why did you say the blindly accepted it? Who blindly accepted it?

    I don't see any of the posters "blindly" accepting it.

    I have seen one person state, based on what a single store tech said, that a ROM update would be out a few months after release. But that is the only very silly rumor I have seen.

    Which do you want to wager will come first -- a Sprint Treo Pro or an 800w Rom release to deal with all those bugs (GPS, PRL) etc.?
    Last edited by aero; 01/06/2009 at 04:30 PM.
  18. #458  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Well why did you say the blindly accepted it?
    I didn't. You implied I said that, but I never did.

    I said that *I* wasn't going to blindly accept it. I did imply that you are, since you believe that the extremely odd phone designation "makes sense."

    They put it up there because it could mean something, not because it does. Just like Mal posted on the error on Palm's site which made it seem like the Treo Pro was a CDMA phone. It is extremely unlikely that it means anything (even if there is a CDMA Pro planned), but it's news regardless.
  19. #459  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    I said that *I* wasn't going to blindly accept it.
    Well why did you imply that they believed that the extremely odd phone designation "made sense"

    What I said is it doesnt make any less sense than any other code name one sees on phones. they turn out to be wrong on most phones.
  20. #460  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Well why did you imply that they believed that the extremely odd phone designation "made sense"

    What I said is it doesnt make any less sense than any other code name one sees on phones. they turn out to be wrong on most phones.
    I neither said nor implied it. You have said that I implied it (several times now), but that doesn't mean I did.

    Quit putting words into my mouth.


    Lets see here:

    700w
    700wx
    800w
    850e


    /me starts humming "One of these things is different from the other"

    Anyone who watches Sesame Street could spot the difference.

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