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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    And when you buy new there is no worry about warranty transfer (Palm warranties are not transferable). Purchases of new devices off Ebay are covered by manufacturer warranty, because the buyer is the first person to ever activate the device. The first actual end user.
    When I worked at Sprint (wow, has it already been almost 6 years?) this wasn't true.

    Since Sprint sells to both businesses and individuals, whoever buys the phone is considered the end user.

    At the time when I worked there, it was up to the rep who handled the call whether they would accept the first person who activated the phone as the end user. The default policy was that the end user was the first person who purchased the phone (regardless of activation status), but exceptions were allowed to be made.

    Usually this came into play when someone bought a phone as a gift. Purchases off Ebay generally weren't treated the same, and the phones were considered used (whether activated or not).

    That's how it was handled 6 years ago. It's possible that policy is different, but I doubt it.



    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    And if you did then you would get it fixed by either Palm or Sprint if something broke. You wouldn't sit on a broken device while it is well within the warranty.
    Do you think I've never bought anything from Ebay?

    When I have in cases where it doesn't work, I've simply shrugged and moved on. This happened just recently where a serial cable I purchased did not work the way I expected it to. There is always a risk when buying used products.

    Ebay's like a giant garage sale. I wouldn't buy a TV at a garage sale then call RCA if it didn't work, or try and return it at Circuit City.

    Heck, I just bought my LCD TV new for this exact reason. I could have gotten a used one off Craigslist for a lower price, but chose to pay more so I would get the coverage from the warranty.


    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    On top of this Sprint offers TEP for a monthly charge and you can put any device under that umbrella and it is covered regardless of who or where it is purchased.
    TEP is what Wildrage should have done from the start. TEP is completely separate from the warranty, however.

    Unfortunately now Sprint has on record that his phone was damaged, which (last time I checked) would invalidate his phone for coverage (you can't get the insurance after the fact).

    He could try adding it and then going through them, if he's nice enough (and gets a little lucky with who he talks to) it might just work.

    Which, incidentally, is what I said from the start.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Why not get insurance and swap it out?
  2. #22  
    Ebag333 - You're talking Sprint policy, when we're talking about Palm's warranty. Did you ever work for Palm too?

    Ebay is not a bunch of used sellers anymore. There are now LOTS of legitimate stores on Ebay selling new products. They are as legitimate as all the other online retailers selling new Treo 800w's. Palm and Sprint are far from the only ones getting 800w's for resale as new devices.

    People also get new Treo 800w's given to them for various reasons, which they sell new on Ebay. The buyer from the Ebay seller is fully covered by Palm's 1 year warranty, because the device was never used until the Ebay buyer used it. If that was not the way Palm does it, Gksmithlcw and Kyleflan would be agreeing with you.

    Wildrage's only issue has been the Palm/Sprint debate over who handles warranty repair and I know Wildrage is telling the truth, because I've experienced some of it myself. And I've always purchased my devices from Sprint or a store such as Best Buy. When calling for a warranty repair, depending on who you get you'll be sent in circles.

    Simply telling someone "you should have got the insurance" when they have a legitimate warranty covered defect does nothing to ensure the manufacturer stands behind their product.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    When I worked at Sprint (wow, has it already been almost 6 years?) this wasn't true.

    Since Sprint sells to both businesses and individuals, whoever buys the phone is considered the end user.

    At the time when I worked there, it was up to the rep who handled the call whether they would accept the first person who activated the phone as the end user. The default policy was that the end user was the first person who purchased the phone (regardless of activation status), but exceptions were allowed to be made.

    Usually this came into play when someone bought a phone as a gift. Purchases off Ebay generally weren't treated the same, and the phones were considered used (whether activated or not).

    That's how it was handled 6 years ago. It's possible that policy is different, but I doubt it.





    Do you think I've never bought anything from Ebay?

    When I have in cases where it doesn't work, I've simply shrugged and moved on. This happened just recently where a serial cable I purchased did not work the way I expected it to. There is always a risk when buying used products.

    Ebay's like a giant garage sale. I wouldn't buy a TV at a garage sale then call RCA if it didn't work, or try and return it at Circuit City.

    Heck, I just bought my LCD TV new for this exact reason. I could have gotten a used one off Craigslist for a lower price, but chose to pay more so I would get the coverage from the warranty.




    TEP is what Wildrage should have done from the start. TEP is completely separate from the warranty, however.

    Unfortunately now Sprint has on record that his phone was damaged, which (last time I checked) would invalidate his phone for coverage (you can't get the insurance after the fact).

    He could try adding it and then going through them, if he's nice enough (and gets a little lucky with who he talks to) it might just work.

    Which, incidentally, is what I said from the start.
    If you bought a RCA TV at a garage sale and it broke and it was still under warranty you would be a liar to say you wouldn't get if fixed. There is nothing wrong with getting it fixed either. It's not dishonest and not illegal. Obviously if it wasn't registered with owner number 1. However in the cellphone game the warranty is carried over. Of course Palm or Sprint may not like it but it's still apart of the business. Again in order for them to control this every device would have to be purchased through Sprint. We all know this is impossible. They have to mass market their products the best they can through 3rd party eBay power sellers, Best Buy, Company Stores, Individually owned stores, etc. or Sprint would be out of business.

    Instead of being an advocate for Palm put yourself in the OP's shoes for a minute. Would you get it fixed or cut your losses? If you paid $225-$300 for it your getting it fixed. You can dance around the question all you want but we all know the answer.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    If you bought a RCA TV at a garage sale and it broke and it was still under warranty you would be a liar to say you wouldn't get if fixed. There is nothing wrong with getting it fixed either. It's not dishonest and not illegal.
    Well I just looked at my TV's warranty card, which says nothing about it being transferable. So had I bought this TV off craigslist, it would be dishonest for me to try and get it serviced under warranty.

    I most likely could, but that doesn't make it right.


    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    Instead of being an advocate for Palm put yourself in the OP's shoes for a minute. Would you get it fixed or cut your losses? If you paid $225-$300 for it your getting it fixed. You can dance around the question all you want but we all know the answer.
    I already answered the question 6 posts ago:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    And there's a reason I did not buy my 800w on Ebay.
    And restated it again three posts ago:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Heck, I just bought my LCD TV new for this exact reason. I could have gotten a used one off Craigslist for a lower price, but chose to pay more so I would get the coverage from the warranty.
    Unless a warrranty specifically states it's transferable, it's not.

    You may think it's okay to lie about who the original purchaser (end user) was. I have more integrity than that.


    But hey, if my two statements aren't clear enough, let me make it crystal clear for you.

    I would not buy a product off Ebay (or Craigslist, or anywhere else) I could not afford to completely write off. A $500 phone (even at a reduced price of $150-200) does not fall in this category. Neither did the size of TV that I wanted that I recently purchased (hence my buying that new).

    If for some reason I did buy an 800w off Ebay (lets say I could have gotten it for less than $100), the first thing I would do (before I even bought it) would be to call to see if it was activated already. If it had, I would not buy it if the seller claimed that it was in "new" condition. If the sellers claims matched up--new with no activation, or used with good ESN--then when I called to active it I would get insurance on it, which would have covered this situation.

    If I received the phone and it did not meet the sellers claims, then I would have taken it up with Ebay/Paypal first. They have dispute resolution options for that exact reason. Likely this would solve the issue with little to no cost to me (other than time). If for some reason that failed, then I would still have the insurance to fall back on.

    If insurance failed for whatever reason, then I still only purchased the phone because I can afford to write it off. Sucks, yes, but it would be an option for me.
    Last edited by Ebag333; 12/04/2008 at 10:13 AM.
  5. #25  
    FWIW, this is not just limited to Ebay. I have bought brand new auto parts from reputable online sites only to have the manufacturers warranty denied because the site is not an authorized distributor. It's BS for sure, but buyer beware.

    I actually bought my 800w off Ebay (new), but only did so because I got a huge discount and I already had TEP, and I intend to use that shortly.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by zbop View Post
    FWIW, this is not just limited to Ebay. I have bought brand new auto parts from reputable online sites only to have the manufacturers warranty denied because the site is not an authorized distributor. It's BS for sure, but buyer beware.

    I actually bought my 800w off Ebay (new), but only did so because I got a huge discount and I already had TEP, and I intend to use that shortly.
    Even Costo is not authorized seller for quite a few of its items and warranties can be refused to first purchaser.

    Unless a warrranty specifically states it's transferable, it's not.
    Not really. It depends on the state and quite a number of other things. Don't forget what is on your warranty, just like what is on your terms of service, is not a contract, it is an assertion by the maker or seller that can contain many conditions that are false locally or false federally. For example you Sprint terms of service says you can't sue them but have to arbitrate. that is false as many suits have been allowed into the courts.

    All in all though I think the buyer should know that his warranty protection is next to nil on an item bought on ebay -- and for good reason
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Unless a warrranty specifically states it's transferable, it's not.

    You may think it's okay to lie about who the original purchaser (end user) was. I have more integrity than that.
    I think regardless of our views on this, that nobody is trying to act with intent to defraud any company. Each is saying what they feel is the honest truth based on what they know and has made no claims to refuse the truth if proven they are incorrect in their point of view. VRGT has an opinion that the warranty can be exercised, in regards to Wildrage, Gksmithlcw and Kyleflan, Palm agreed their Ebay purchases counted them as the original end user. They made it clear where they got the device from and Palm did not call them liars or people of low integrity. There's no basis for anyone to stick out themselves as having greater integrity than anyone else in this particular debate. Because nobody is trying to act deceptively. There are 3 witnesses who affirm Palm already let them know they are entitled to warranty coverage. In the case of Wildrage their issue has been who will actually perform that service, but all parties they have corresponded with informed them they are entitled to full warranty service. Given this Wildrage has full rights to seek relief from Palm using a resource such as the BBB.

    In general outside of this matter regarding Palm, when it comes to questions about warranty coverage, the best thing to do is to check with the manufacturer. And with items sold on Ebay, if the seller claims it's under warranty and it is not, that's an issue of false advertising that could be addressed with Ebay and the seller. You can always check with the manufacturer before making a purchase just to check.

    Regarding the topic of this discussion, Palm in action been OK with new Palm equipment purchased through Ebay sellers.

    Speaking of integrity, does Sprint's user agreement allow tethering when not paying for Spirnt's Phone as a Modem service? I've never seen VRGT mention he's tethering.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Regarding the topic of this discussion, Palm in action been OK with new Palm equipment purchased through Ebay sellers.
    Quote Originally Posted by wildrage View Post
    FYI, Darnell, if your 800w breaks and you do not have insurnace, even if it falls under the manufactuers warrany, NOBODY will fix it. If you call Palm, you get forwarded to Sprint, and if you go to Sprint, they will tell you that without insurance, you are SOL. I spent 1/2 hour arguing with the people at the Sprint store on 6th Ave. in NYC, who kept on insisting that I call Palm. I actually called Palm on speakerphone when I was there, and they listened to Palm tell me to go to Sprint, to which they had no explanation.
    If Palm is refusing to fix it under warranty, then I think that rather disproves the notion that "Palm in action been OK with new Palm equipment purchased through Ebay sellers".

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Speaking of integrity, does Sprint's user agreement allow tethering when not paying for Spirnt's Phone as a Modem service? I've never seen VRGT mention he's tethering.
    Sprint has tethering fee's in place. If I get charged for them, I will pay them. When I was testing tethering I made no efforts to bypass Sprint.

    Did you see me mention somewhere how I was bypassing Sprint's fee's?
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    If Palm is refusing to fix it under warranty, then I think that rather disproves the notion that "Palm in action been OK with new Palm equipment purchased through Ebay sellers".
    Please read more of the statements from Wildrage. They've made it clear that Palm informed them that their device was warranted for repair through Sprint. Sprint said it was warranted for repair through Palm. Palm is ducking their own warranty.

    You're also ignoring the statements from both Gksmithlcw and Kyleflan, who have both received full warranty service with Treos purchased new on Ebay.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Please read more of the statements from Wildrage. They've made it clear that Palm informed them that their device was warranted for repair through Sprint. Sprint said it was warranted for repair through Palm. Palm is ducking their own warranty.
    No where did Wildrage state that Palm told him that Sprint would cover it under warranty. Considering that that is no warranty through Sprint, it'd be rather difficult for Sprint to replace a device under warranty.

    Sprint is correct in saying that the warranty goes through Palm. Palm is correct in stating that the user can either pay their out of warranty service fee, or go through Sprint and attempt to replace the device that way.

    When Palm refers people to Sprint, it is not a warranty repair/replacement.

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    You're also ignoring the statements from both Gksmithlcw and Kyleflan, who have both received full warranty service with Treos purchased new on Ebay.
    Not in the least. I'm certainly glad that Palm choose to cover Gksmithlcw and Kyleflan. Their warranty explicitly states that Palm did not have to, yet choose to anyway. Perhaps they never mentioned to Palm that they purchased the device from Ebay, or perhaps the rep decided to cover it anyway in the name of good customer service. That is above and beyond the letter of the warranty.

    Even Aero stated that warranty coverage is zip on items purchased through Ebay (with the exception of transferable warranties, and there a whole 'nother set of factors get involved).

    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    All in all though I think the buyer should know that his warranty protection is next to nil on an item bought on ebay -- and for good reason
    Anyway, I've spent enough time on this. It is what it is. Back to working on some more contributions for me.
  11. #31  
    Perhaps you should read Kyleflan's statement again.

    Aero's statements don't matter, because Aero is not speaking as someone who purchased a new Treo off Ebay and was denied warranty service.

    I've already told you, the same run around Wildrage is getting is the same experience I've had with a Palm device purchased from Sprint. Sprint does not like warranty repairs, because they make money off selling insurance. Palm does not like warranty repairs because it's a loss for them. While Treo Pro owners have experienced pretty good service from Palm support, Treo 800w owners have not. Including when pointing out the GPS is defective and does not perform as advertised. That alone entitles every Treo 800w a full refund if requested. All the more reason for Wildrage to make a BBB complaint.

    Every warranty registration I've ever filled out asked where the product was purchased. So Gksmithlcw also very likely told Palm where he purchased his Treo from.

    Palm does not tell these people they are liars or of low integrity for buying from Ebay and seeking warranty service.

    As Wildrage has already mentioned, regardless of who you purchase from, seeking warranty repairs can be a hassle and I've experienced that myself although I purchased from Sprint.

    We have yet to hear from someone who said that they were explicitly denied because they purchased a Palm product NEW via Ebay.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    We have yet to hear from someone who said that they were explicitly denied because they purchased a Palm product NEW via Ebay.
    I mentioned this on page 2 of this thread already. It's a Treo Pro.
    Quote Originally Posted by pmulticida View Post
    Anyway, after spending an hour on the phone with palm support, I was told they had determined the device was defective. Then, to my amazement, I was told that because I had not purchased the phone through PALM directly (I bought it new, in box, from a computer vendor on Ebay), the 1 year warranty was void.

    Very matter of fact. Sorry, Sir, you have no warranty.
    Also, Sprint doesn't lose money on Warranty returns. They pass that on to the manufactures.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I mentioned this on page 2 of this thread already. It's a Treo Pro.
    Well if warranty only covers purchases through Palm directly, that would exclude even Amazon.com.


    That also means the TC store is not a valid seller either. I think there's something fishy about Palm telling anyone that devices not sold directly via Palm are not covered. I'm sure the BBB would help Palm figure out who the legitimate retailers are.

    There's no point in having "warranty registration" if one can only buy through Palm or a carrier. If it can only be purchased through them, they can consolidate the buyer data at the point of sale without the need for a separate customer warranty registration. If a gift, the buyer could indicate that and the person it is for during purchase. That later registration would only open a door for registrations that would be deemed invalid.

    I'm sure the folks at the TC store find it to be news to their ears, that Palm is claiming Treo Pros they sell are not covered by Palm's warranty.

    Also, Sprint doesn't lose money on Warranty returns. They pass that on to the manufactures.
    Having owned my own business where I sold products I ordered wholesale direct from manufacturers, I can tell you just what a Sprint manager told me and I know it's true from my own business experience. Sprint loses money on warranty returns. They get a portion of what they paid up front and even if they get all they paid up front, that does not cover the costs to process and ship that defective device back. I was told they get a portion back, but even getting the prior payment back in full does not cover the costs of processing and shipping the defective product back to the manufacturer. It's a red tape mess and payment is not immediate. It's very much a loss to have to process returns, even when you get back what you paid wholesale.

    Sprint has the added incentive of the fact they make money off selling insurance. So they have the option to stone wall and ultimately encourage more customers to invest in Sprint's money making insurance sales option. Doing it via insurance Sprint makes money because the insurance company must deal with the return, but doing a warranty return, Sprint loses every time. Everyone who has run a business selling products knows this. If anyone who runs the TC store is reading, please tell me if you're seeing something different because I know I never did when it came to returns. The one thing I always hoped would never occur is a return, it's a money losing hassle.
  14. #34  
    There's a difference between authorized dealers who have a direct relationship and business history with Palm and meet certain criteria (some perhaps arbitrary) vs. "some guy selling it on eBay".
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    There's a difference between authorized dealers who have a direct relationship and business history with Palm and meet certain criteria (some perhaps arbitrary) vs. "some guy selling it on eBay".
    You may not know much about eBay. The majority of power sellers ARE authorized dealers. They do the same thing TC does just on a extremely high volume website. It would be hard to sell if they used there own low traffic site. "Some Guy" may sell a used device or accessory every now and again. Your friend who bought the 800 from me was purchased from an authorized dealer. Just moved an extra one for him since I posted in TC alot. When it didn't sell on TC I put it on eBay under my account. It is covered under the manufacture warranty if something were to happen. It would not be illegal or dishonest.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  16. #36  
    When that is the case (we do not know from the case example above if it applies), on the warranty card (or when in contact with Palm) you simply list the Store front's name. Not "ebay".

    Furthermore, such "authorized dealers" should have some type of return/exchange policy in place to protect the customer--the bigger stores/sites tend to have these.

    Also, whenever disputing such a case, it pays to have a record (snapshot) of the actual listing (to demonstrate NIB) and even photos. I document all my online purchases of expensive electronic equipment in that fashion. It is not uncommon for companies to request such info--even Sandisk does this with their SD cards (high rate of counterfeits).

    As far as Sprint and their phones...it's simply easier. In fact, the micro-USB port went on that phone just last week. Sprint ordered a brand new one (none in stock, took 2 days) and it was exchanged. Even though they had TEP, they were not charged the $50 fee.

    This is the 3rd time this had been done by Sprint with this customer who's on SERO (different phones though--Moto Q, Centro, 800w--some were very questionable hardware "defects" ahem).

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  17. #37  
    Hi Malatesta, my statement about sellers was regarding the statement you cited where someone said they were told they had to purchase through Palm directly or not have warranty coverage. That's totally bogus. I think that much we agree on, that others are "authorized" to sell Palm products.

    To be "authorized" to sell Palm products, you get a business license, a Federal Tax ID and if in a state that charges sales tax a state sales tax ID, call Palm and say you want to buy a batch of Treos for resale. That's all.

    I just called Palm myself and confirmed it.

    All you do is call 1-866-373-9162. Minimum wholesale order of 10 smart phones, with a minimum purchase amount of $1000. This is exactly how it was when I resold items myself. Palm is absolutely no different than any other product manufacturer. Any and everybody can and does sell their stuff that they can all buy from Palm wholesale, sell retail and it's covered by Palm's warranty.

    True the OP would have to have a name other than "Ebay" as the company they purchased from. Assuming Ebay was just the facilitator of the transaction, but the seller was legit the OP would be (or is) OK.
  18. #38  
    D is correct. Not hard to become a dealer. I am a dealer for several Companies. Racedeck flooring only required a Business name, Business bank account, tax id and $500 worth of product. That is the smallest beginning investment Company I deal with. My point is I am a dealer for them and any Joe Schmoe with these credentials can do the same thing. If there is a defect it goes through me verbally then Racedeck does the rest. Same thing I am sure goes with TC. It may go back to them but ultimately goes back to the manufacture. Or TC can have the consumer call the Company directly. Its even easier with a Sprint device defect. Sprint has TEP or others go through Palm directly. Its a simple process. It baffles me the OP would have a hard time getting it fixed. Its even weirder some people can't grasp the concept.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  19.    #39  
    Hey Just to update you guys:

    I was finally able to get in touch with Palm. It was definately an ordeal, but they agreed to replace my 800w with a refurb. I guess some of you guys were right in the first place (I admit when I'm wrong).

    Palm does, however, really try to hide the fact that they are responsible for their warranty coverage. When you call most of their phone numbers, the only thing you get is a recording telling you to call sprint because they are an authorized repair center. When I called sprint, they were unable to help, however, I got a different phone number when scouring through the Palm website, and they were able to take care of things.

    They give you the option of either first sending your device, and having them repair it, or they will send you a refurb and you must send them your device back within 15 days. I chose the latter, as I wanted my 800w back ASAP. If you have them send you the refurb first, they charge $25, and put a $400 hold on your credit card. They told me I would receive it in 2-3 business days. Today makes 2 business days, so we'll see if I actually get it.

    Based on the accents, I'm guessing their CS is outsourced to the Phillapines. No offense to them, but I felt like I should get some prize just for getting through the conversation.
  20. #40  
    Good to hear Wildrage! Once you helped me understand the details of your situation, I knew persistence would pay off. Shame you had to deal with all that, but I know after I'm done with my 800w I'll see how it goes with a company other than Palm.
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