View Poll Results: Sprint Treo 800w owners, would you have waited 6 months for the Treo Pro?

Voters
42. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    13 30.95%
  • No

    29 69.05%
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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by steven975 View Post
    ...
    Given that we won't know the battery size of the CDMA pro for a while, I don't think there's a big difference between 1300 and 1100mAh...besides, there's a battery that big for the 800w anyway.
    ...
    The GSM Treo Pro has a 1500mAh battery. About 30% larger.
  2. #22  
    The 800 is a great machine you should not kick yourself. No one, including you made an unwise decision getting an 800w up until now.

    There is a substantial difference in the battery. It isn't 1100 v 1300, it is 1150 v 1500. All other things being equal in the device (and we are not sure they are but likely to be very close) this puts a lot more users past the tipping point of a full day. Amount of usage and convenience of charging varies, so for a lot of people it makes no difference, but for a lot it will mean a lot more utility and a lot less worry.

    A very short model run, with only one distributor is also a problem. The user base n the Pro is likly to be substantially larger and this is a big benefit as well. If you have verizon and Sprint with the cdma, plus GSM which is att and worldwide, and one year before a significant upgrade that translated into a much larger potential user base than Sprint alone with the 800w.

    In this case though potential small 800w userbase downside is mostly about hardware and form factor based accessories since some much of the function and OS is identical. eg this is bad news for those hoping for a bunch of competing solutions to the audio over micro sub, but is actually good news for the future supply and demand of 320x320 wm adaptions.

    Over decades, I can''t remember not salivating over the next thing six months after a technology purchase. It isn't just technology, I bet all our wives have days they wished they waited a bit too!




    Quote Originally Posted by steven975 View Post
    I replaced my 650 with the 800w and I'm happy so far. The standalone GPS would be a "nice to have" but not necessary. The 3.5mm jack was an ommission that lacked any common sense, but I never used the jack on the 650, ever. A2DP makes up for it, though.

    Given that we won't know the battery size of the CDMA pro for a while, I don't think there's a big difference between 1300 and 1100mAh...besides, there's a battery that big for the 800w anyway.

    The pro looks great, but the specs are largely the same. I can see the pro being scratched up after a couple months, but the 800w won't be.

    If I could choose now between the pro and the 800w, I'd probably pick the pro, but that doesn't mean I'm kicking myself for having the 800w. I kept my 650 for 4 years (!), and the 800w is a huge step up in capability.
  3. #23  
    I'd love to git Treo Pro a shot once it's out, but can't trade the time i spent with Treo 800w. Any type of technology always improves, sit and wait isn't always the best option to go with.

    I rather be the happy user for couple months with the Top tech of the moment, cause i know no matter how new the new tech is, it'll be out dated very next day.
  4.    #24  
    One thing is for sure, the 800w has the superior housing. Even once any Treo Pros are replaced, I doubt even their "good" housing will outlast the 800w's.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by rc46 View Post
    Well today it looks better for Palm. As I type they are up 30% from yesterday. Thats a huge swing and I can't find any news to support it. I have never seen a stock swing like Palm has been the last few weeks. 30% is huge, especially without any news. Very strange.
    What do you mean? That BGR report on the upcoming release of the Treo Pro is the news! LOL
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    The GSM Treo Pro has a 1500mAh battery. About 30% larger.
    Keep in mind a few things...

    1) The phone may be tweaked between the GSM and CDMA versions. Look at the Touch Pro, where even the CDMA versions are not the same.

    3) The way the OS is setup and CDMA vs GSM (among about a million other things) effects the power use.

    Case in point, the 800w's battery may be 30% smaller but the Pro only has approx 10% longer talk time (4.5 hours to 5 hours). The Treo Pro has a better standby times at 25% longer (200 hours to 250 hours), but still falls short of the 30% that pure battery size would imply.

    No doubt this is in part to the difference between CDMA and GSM, but the way the OS is setup also plays a large part in it. As an example, the 700wx has a whopping 1800 mAh battery, but only has a 4.7 hour talk time and 300 hour standby time. This illustrates one of the biggest bonuses of WM6.1, which was a huge focus towards more power savings.

    Having been deep into both the Pro and 800w, they are setup quite differently in a lot of areas. I suspect that the 800w's ROM was intended to be easily ported to a GSM device, but that device was not the Pro. (The 800w, for those who don't know, has quite a few references to GSM in the registry.)
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Keep in mind a few things...

    1) The phone may be tweaked between the GSM and CDMA versions. Look at the Touch Pro, where even the CDMA versions are not the same.

    3) The way the OS is setup and CDMA vs GSM (among about a million other things) effects the power use.

    Case in point, the 800w's battery may be 30% smaller but the Pro only has approx 10% longer talk time (4.5 hours to 5 hours). The Treo Pro has a better standby times at 25% longer (200 hours to 250 hours), but still falls short of the 30% that pure battery size would imply.

    No doubt this is in part to the difference between CDMA and GSM, but the way the OS is setup also plays a large part in it. As an example, the 700wx has a whopping 1800 mAh battery, but only has a 4.7 hour talk time and 300 hour standby time. This illustrates one of the biggest bonuses of WM6.1, which was a huge focus towards more power savings.

    Having been deep into both the Pro and 800w, they are setup quite differently in a lot of areas. I suspect that the 800w's ROM was intended to be easily ported to a GSM device, but that device was not the Pro. (The 800w, for those who don't know, has quite a few references to GSM in the registry.)
    We won't get into a debate about battery life again. However the obession with paper figures is just not realistic. There is no way in hell my 800 gets 4.5 hour talk time. I know this because I've done it. On a 6 hour trip I spent over 4 hours of it on the phone. I charged the phone 3 times that day. The proof of how false the paper is, the Centro get's 3.5 vs the 800's 4.5. It's total BS.

    Maybe the Pro does get 5, I hope it does. My buddy Roger says it's the best battery life phone he's had in the last few years. That's good news. This also an unlocked device. Could be the difference, who knows.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    . As an example, the 700wx has a whopping 1800 mAh battery, but only has a 4.7 hour talk time and 300 hour standby time.
    The self published talk time numbers are almost totally meaningless in these devices. They advertisement numbers are not regulated by anyone .

    Blackberries, when tested independently with reasonably controlled methods go way way above the advertised talk time and Palm typically has been much lower (half)

    These guys test the handsets comparatively with mp3 playback over a call methods:
    http://www.wirelessinfo.com/content/...ttery-Life.htm

    this is why stating "the numbers don't lie" when referencing non regulated non tested self published and misleading talk times is problematic. The numbers do lie -- and a lot!.


    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    We won't get into a debate about battery life again. However the obession with paper figures is just not realistic. .
    the numbers are just plain silly. All they say is that anyone quoting them has not seriously used a the blackberry

    30% more all other things being equal will get from 30% to 50% more useful time depending on usage.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    However the obession with paper figures is just not realistic. There is no way in hell my 800 gets 4.5 hour talk time. I know this because I've done it. On a 6 hour trip I spent over 4 hours of it on the phone. I charged the phone 3 times that day.
    Your 800w may not get 4.5 hours talk time in real life, but that's neither here nor there.

    The numbers in this case are both supplied by Palm. They may not be "real life" accurate, but they should relate to each other. If you see (just as an example) only 4 hours of actual talk time on your 800w, then you should count on only being able to get 4.5 hours of actual talk time on a Pro.

    The lab test numbers are definitely based on a very specific setup, and may or may not match how your phone is setup. It's unlikely that those numbers were achieved with bluetooth or WiFi on, for example. For those of us (like me) who leave bluetooth on all the time, that's an additional power drain that will effect the real life test numbers.




    But the numbers don't even really matter. I was merely using them to illustrate my point.

    My point still holds true that CDMA and GSM will have different power requirements, meaning that the same sized battery will not last the same length of time on one as on the other. Whether CDMA or GSM uses more power, that seems to be a topic of much debate (searching Google will net you plenty of results saying one or the other).

    Additionally my point about how the ROM/OS is setup holds true as well. As a simple example, the 800w's backlighting is set to a lower setting than the Pro, meaning a lower power drain and the phone will last longer off the same sized battery. That may make a fairly small difference (actually backlighting is one of the bigger power drains), but that small change is mirrored in dozens upon dozens of changes through the entire OS. And not all of them are directly related to power, take Clear Type for example. The 800w has it off by default, the Pro has it on. It's been conclusively shown that Clear Type is more CPU intensive, which means that it's a bigger power drain with it enabled VS off (more CPU usage = more power used). Obviously Clear Type (or the backlight) aren't used when the phone is off, so differences such as that one explain why the two talk time numbers are only half an hour apart while the standby times have a difference more appropriate to the difference in battery sizes.


    Obviously these numbers won't be representative towards how you use the device, nor are they really intended to. I get between 8 and 10 hours regularly off pretty heavy use of my 800w, but very little of that is talk time. How can you quantify 30-50 e-mails, a dozen texts, a couple spats of websurfing, reading through a hundred pages of an e-book, a bit of music, and watching a couple YouTube videos? While the tests done by the company Aero linked to will give you a better idea of how the phone will work for you, they still aren't perfectly representative.

    The numbers supplied simply give you a comparison of the life of the phones in a specific setting. They cover exactly two scenarios, solid talk time and solid standby time, and nothing in between.



    Now, if you'd like to give me some reasons as to why I'm mistaken and there is no power difference between CDMA and GSM, or why there's no difference between the way ROM's are setup, feel free to. Perhaps while you're at it you can give me the power life numbers you see off the 800w and Treo Pro. If you have repeatable tests that show the numbers are different from what Palm published, please feel free to share them. I'd like to see how you are testing those numbers and what method you are using to see greatly different numbers from what Palm has published.




    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    30% more all other things being equal will get from 30% to 50% more useful time depending on usage.
    That's true. The problem is (which I very clearly outlined in my post) is that all other things are not equal.
  10. #30  
    My example I provided earlier was talk time only. I do not use WiFi and only on occasion use BT. My example is a very valid test. No emails, no texts, no browsing, just 3 over an hour phone calls. If you've ever done this before you will notice the phone will get very warm. Close to the 3 hour mark I had to put it on the charger it had warned me the battery was low. My colleague was like, its out already? (he has a Curve). This is why I always complain about battery life because I have real proof. I refuse to put a bulky on it and lose thre form factor I like.

    I can really care less about Treo Pro battery life on the GSM model. I am a Sprint customer. I don't really want to get into a battery thing with you. I have two points that you will probably never comprehend. One, the 800 battery blows. Two, the advertised battery numbers are total BS. Its a guide and not actual. You can right whatever number you want on paper and it means nothing. Its the same paper they wrote "assisted and standalone GPS" on and we all know its another BS statement.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    We won't get into a debate about battery life again. However the obession with paper figures is just not realistic. There is no way in hell my 800 gets 4.5 hour talk time. I know this because I've done it. On a 6 hour trip I spent over 4 hours of it on the phone. I charged the phone 3 times that day. The proof of how false the paper is, the Centro get's 3.5 vs the 800's 4.5. It's total BS.

    Maybe the Pro does get 5, I hope it does. My buddy Roger says it's the best battery life phone he's had in the last few years. That's good news. This also an unlocked device. Could be the difference, who knows.
    Correct. The Treo Pro is over 30% smaller than the 800w but has over 30% more battery capacity. Amazing!
  12. #32  
    The six month excuse is invalid. The Treo Pro was released (w/o a carrier!) ONE month after the 800w. It's not like Palm came up with the Pro AFTER they released the 800w or AT&T begged for an exclusive on it. The w does have some advantages, but in the end, it appears even Sprint felt cheated and asked for the real deal.
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG View Post
    No, I wouldn't have, and I don't intend on buying a Treo Pro either. I think the 800w does essentially the same thing, but looks better.
    Ditto.
    Palm III -> Handspring Visor Deluxe -> Dell Axim X5 Advanced -> Dell Axim X3i -> Dell Axim X50v -> Cingular 8125 -> Sprint Palm Treo 700Wx -> ->Palm Treo 700P (my wife's but I played with it ) -> Sprint Mogul -> Treo 800w -> Touch Pro & Treo Pro.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    The six month excuse is invalid. The Treo Pro was released (w/o a carrier!) ONE month after the 800w.
    The GSM version was, not the CDMA though. That is an important distinction.

    Could Palm have made both types at the same time? I dunno maybe. I suppose the same could be said about the HTC Diamond, Pro and Pro HD though, right? Those all had 4-5 month delays between the two network models too. That actually seems about the time needed to plan, FCC, test and finalize for a CDMA carrier.

    Better yet, why did Sprint and everyone release the Touch Pro when just a few months later (even before the Sprint version was released) they show off and release the Pro HD? That's a kicker too.

    Plus, it's worth noting that usually "Round 2" of a device (carrier conversion) allows the manufacturer time to fix outstanding issues, which benefits us.

    Either way, the answer to the OP question clearly depends on how you like the 800w:
    • Like it: no, wouldn't have waited
    • Don't like it: yes, would have waited
    Last edited by Malatesta; 11/21/2008 at 09:25 AM.

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  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    The six month excuse is invalid. The Treo Pro was released (w/o a carrier!) ONE month after the 800w. It's not like Palm came up with the Pro AFTER they released the 800w or AT&T begged for an exclusive on it. The w does have some advantages, but in the end, it appears even Sprint felt cheated and asked for the real deal.
    I guess you missed where I mentioned in the title "Sprint Treo 800w owners..." and in my initial comment specified
    ...
    But I wonder, if you are someone who really likes being with Sprint and have a Treo 800w, would you have held off about 6 months to get a Treo Pro instead?
    ...
    The entire context of this thread, was regarding people who are rather loyal to Sprint. So no matter whoever else the Treo Pro was available for and when was never a concern.

    Getting the Treo Pro with service from any other carrier, puts the total cost of ownership when adding in carrier fees, up to a level many of us simply are not considering. Many of us will take what we can get from Sprint for now.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I guess you missed where I mentioned in the title "Sprint Treo 800w owners..." and in my initial comment specified


    The entire context of this thread, was regarding people who are rather loyal to Sprint. So no matter whoever else the Treo Pro was available for and when was never a concern.

    Getting the Treo Pro with service from any other carrier, puts the total cost of ownership when adding in carrier fees, up to a level many of us simply are not considering. Many of us will take what we can get from Sprint for now.
    The point is, and always, has been, that Palm decided to release a device that Sprint loved so much they're about to EOL it in 6 months for another product from the same company. Thie CDMA version should have been priortized over a GSM version that no carrier appears eager to pick up.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    The point is, and always, has been, that Palm decided to release a device that Sprint loved so much they're about to EOL it in 6 months for another product from the same company. Thie CDMA version should have been priortized over a GSM version that no carrier appears eager to pick up.
    Correct. Even Verizon has scrapped the 800w.
  18.    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    The point is, and always, has been, that Palm decided to release a device that Sprint loved so much they're about to EOL it in 6 months for another product from the same company. Thie CDMA version should have been priortized over a GSM version that no carrier appears eager to pick up.
    Well if we want to talk about what should have been or could have been, we could say Sprint should have accepted the 800w with Windows Mobile 6.0 and it would have released a long while back. And so on...

    What is reality, is that the 800w came to Sprint first and the Treo Pro likely 6 months later. The question is, knowing that, would you have rather waited 6 months for the Treo Pro? And we've made our answers known .
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG View Post
    No, I wouldn't have, and I don't intend on buying a Treo Pro either. I think the 800w does essentially the same thing, but looks better.
    Here, here!
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  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Well if we want to talk about what should have been or could have been, we could say Sprint should have accepted the 800w with Windows Mobile 6.0 and it would have released a long while back. And so on...

    What is reality, is that the 800w came to Sprint first and the Treo Pro likely 6 months later. The question is, knowing that, would you have rather waited 6 months for the Treo Pro? And we've made our answers known .
    Fair enough. I would have waited.
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