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  1. #21  
    <dupe thread merged>
  2. #22  
    I think my next device will be based on what is most popular with xda-developers. There's just not enough guru's that care about Treo's.
    I refuse to let a mfg say this is what you get whether you like it or not.
    Just call me Berd.
  3. #23  
    So I just got back from Sprint. I played with the Touch Pro. The UI is sick. The screen is incredible. The 800 next to it looks extremely outdated. Again, I got razzed about having the 800 still. It's just that damn sliding keyboard. The device is thick and the keyboard is huge. If it were as thin as the Diamond I'd be on it. I got a few weeks to decide.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by TazUk View Post
    I'm sure Google had started work on Android a long time before any of us got to hear of it They also have far more resources than Palm so I would expect them to be able to produce something quicker
    I actually have very high hopes for Android
    Just call me Berd.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I think my next device will be based on what is most popular with xda-developers. There's just not enough guru's that care about Treo's.
    I refuse to let a mfg say this is what you get whether you like it or not.
    Agreed. The 800w was dead before it was released. HTC devices are where it's at for WM.
  6. #26  
    What HTC device?

    Touch Pro is fun for a few days- until you relaize that the treo can do everything about 30% faster. The Touch Pros battery life is awful on top of it. The TP is not the answer.

    Is the GPS issue crazy on the 800w- yes. Am I pissed about the paint wearing off my 5 way? Yes. Should the sound quality be better? Yes. However, is it fast? Yes. Can I find a piece of information (movie listing, gas price, wikipedia article) faster than anyone I know that has a "superior" device? YES!

    I am a big believer in that you choose a carrier and then a phone not the other way around. What else is out on Sprint? The Ace is a joke, the mogul was terrible from day one, the original touch sucked. This is a hobby that always dissapoints.

    The treo should be better, but there is still nothing better- at least today.

    I think Android might have potential but it is very early and I still love windows mobile.
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  7. #27  
    FWIW, I agree Palm is in deep trouble. But that is a seperate issue from what phone you are going to carry today.
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
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    #28  
    I am still with Palm. HTC has not make such a form factor as the 800w yet. They are all sliders with those flip protrait and landscape.

    Oh yah, Window Mobile rulez over any other OS because of warez.
  9. #29  
    The Touch Pro crowd has a host of methods for increasing the Touch Pro's performance.

    Sort of like the claims that the Treo Pro is slower than the 800w. When actually the Treo Pro has Cleartype active, that is off by default on the 800w. When Cleartype is off on the Treo Pro it performs better overall.

    The Touch Pro uses a totally different interface, that is resource intensive, but the XDA developers have tweaks a mile long. The TouchFlo interface can also simply be turned off.

    Les, did you try some of the XDA developer performance tweaks or try seeing how the Touch Pro performs when TouchFlo is disabled?

    There's talk about how one device is faster than another, but usually those claims don't involve having the mentioned devices configured as close to the same as possible. The Touch Pro has the hardware to perform, seems it just needs to be configured for better performance.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Anderson View Post
    What HTC device?

    Touch Pro is fun for a few days- until you relaize that the treo can do everything about 30% faster. The Touch Pros battery life is awful on top of it. The TP is not the answer.

    Is the GPS issue crazy on the 800w- yes. Am I pissed about the paint wearing off my 5 way? Yes. Should the sound quality be better? Yes. However, is it fast? Yes. Can I find a piece of information (movie listing, gas price, wikipedia article) faster than anyone I know that has a "superior" device? YES!

    I am a big believer in that you choose a carrier and then a phone not the other way around. What else is out on Sprint? The Ace is a joke, the mogul was terrible from day one, the original touch sucked. This is a hobby that always dissapoints.

    The treo should be better, but there is still nothing better- at least today.

    I think Android might have potential but it is very early and I still love windows mobile.
    I tried a few tests with my co-worker who uses an 800w.
    The Touch Pro was very competitive in portrait mode.
    In landscape with the keyboard exposed, I made use of Ctrl Key Pro and the TP was faster.
    It "feels" slower, but the biggest difference between the TP and the Apache/Mogul is that it switches between landscape and portrait fast enough to make the KB a practical option.
    If the TP battery life is anywhere near respectable (it has not been yet, but hopefully the battery will perform better after a few charge cycles), it might be a keeper.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    The Touch Pro crowd has a host of methods for increasing the Touch Pro's performance.

    Sort of like the claims that the Treo Pro is slower than the 800w. When actually the Treo Pro has Cleartype active, that is off by default on the 800w. When Cleartype is off on the Treo Pro it performs better overall.

    The Touch Pro uses a totally different interface, that is resource intensive, but the XDA developers have tweaks a mile long. The TouchFlo interface can also simply be turned off.

    Les, did you try some of the XDA developer performance tweaks or try seeing how the Touch Pro performs when TouchFlo is disabled?

    There's talk about how one device is faster than another, but usually those claims don't involve having the mentioned devices configured as close to the same as possible. The Touch Pro has the hardware to perform, seems it just needs to be configured for better performance.
    I performed the performance tweaks listed in your link. There are actually two programs that are very well written that enable you to do most of the tweaks you see people doing- including those. I also used several other. I used magic button to launch/close apps, wisbar lite for task management, registry tweak after tweak, etc. I didn't leave many stones unturned. I did try to run it without tf3d- then I wondered what the point was...

    Anyway, when I was referring to "speed" I a more referring to the time it takes to respond to a text message, make a call to someone in your contacts-in a noisy environment, forward an email from exchange etc. The touch is without a doubt a powerhouse. tf3d is smooth, apps open fast- it is nice. But the treo is much quicker at doing the little things. The treo also holds its own when opening apps (live search) etc but may not be quite as fast in terms of raw app opening, number crunching speed. The TP does more than the treo- flip the ringing phone over and ringing will suppress- that is cool! Pull the sylus out, the thing turns on- if you have s2u2 it will even unlock! But it only gets you through first the first few days/week.

    Did you know that the LED on TP the keyboard is hardware controlled, and times out at 10 seconds? Hardware controlled means no tweaks or registry edits to fix it. So lights out after 10 seconds. (unless you can solder)

    Did you also know that the 5-way insn't a five way? It is a 3 way- it rocks up and down and can execute. This means when you are in a web page or something else in portrait and need to scroll left/right you need to use your finger on the screen. What if you were in the native calender app that was not "touch" optimized and you needed to check your schedule at the end of the week? Stylus city. I found ways around this (that involved double tapping "end" to move right & "send" to move left) that worked okay with magic button but these makes palm's mistakes with 800 seem miniscule!

    How about the top right dedicated button below the screen? What if I told you that was a "back" button and could not be changed to anything else??? "Okay" might have been a better option. Not even magic button could touch this. "Buttons" in standard WM settings has one option!

    It is another flashly but highly flawed HTC device. They put them out year after year. I reccomend picking it up for a couple week- youll be in love for 5-10 days playing with all the new stuff- then your treo will start to look appealing again. The treo does less- but it does it far better. And that is the legacy of the treo from the 300 on up. If you want bleeding edge stuff your in the wrong place.

    -LA
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    I tried a few tests with my co-worker who uses an 800w.
    The Touch Pro was very competitive in portrait mode.
    In landscape with the keyboard exposed, I made use of Ctrl Key Pro and the TP was faster.
    It "feels" slower, but the biggest difference between the TP and the Apache/Mogul is that it switches between landscape and portrait fast enough to make the KB a practical option.
    If the TP battery life is anywhere near respectable (it has not been yet, but hopefully the battery will perform better after a few charge cycles), it might be a keeper.
    It does switch between landscape and portrait mode fast. Also- one of the biggest differences in comparison to the previous generations is that the on screen qwerty in portrait mode was very usable. I could type messages on it with good accuraccy. Still no hardware qwerty- but a big step in the right direction.

    Other pluses; EVDO speed- 1280kbps on DSL reports. Treo can barely do that on wifi.
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Sort of like the claims that the Treo Pro is slower than the 800w. When actually the Treo Pro has Cleartype active, that is off by default on the 800w. When Cleartype is off on the Treo Pro it performs better overall.
    Yes but even with both phones having cleartype turned off the 800w is easily 10% faster. I have confirmed this with my own stop watch running multiple tests. The 800w has some kind of graphics accelerator that the Treo Pro does not. The pro lags on redraw.
    Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad
    R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Anderson View Post
    What HTC device?

    Touch Pro is fun for a few days- until you relaize that the treo can do everything about 30% faster.
    Les I tested a Touch pro for about a week. I will definitely be replacing a couple of my 800Ws with either the Touch Pro or the Treo Pro. Sprint has offered either, so I am going to wait about a month to see if there is anymore leaks on release of a CDMA Treo Pro

    My experience with the Touch pro was it was pretty powerful and that in comparison to to the 800w it did more things better than worse.

    First on basic telephony the audio is a world apart. We have both used both in short order or side by side and I wonder if you would agree or disagree?

    IMHO The normal headset audio is quite superior on the Touch Pro. In oteice it and callers on the other end noted it. The speakerphone is an even more marked difference. I've had wired, cordless and mobile phones with speakerphones. The 800w is the worst speakerphone I can remember. It has one utility on the 800w as far as I am concerned, listing to garbled music while on hold so you don't have to hold the thing to your ear. For conversation forget it. In comparison The touch pro speaker phone is in the mean or better than average and works fine for conversation.

    On the keyboard slide, which gives you a much bigger screen, I thought at first this would be the major problem after years with a palm style front qwerty. I found that after about four or five days that I was almost as adept using the touch keyboard. I came to front facing keyboard from grafitti, which I had a habitual attachment and efficiency. Adapting to the touch pro type keyboard was much less of a problem than I thought and I bet after a month I might prefer it. In fact, and I urge others to give this a try at your local BestBuy, I could use the Touch Pro keyboard very well entirely one handed.

    Last, I do not want to be disagreeable, but in my experience 800w "everything 30% faster" is not my experience at all. I have zero complaint with the snappiness of the 800w, but I have zero complaint on the Touch Pro in that regard either. I would say the the TP does some things a bit faster and the 800w does some things a bit faster and the differences I noted, and I used about everything, were marginal.
    Last edited by aero; 11/18/2008 at 09:32 AM.
  15. #35  
    I would agree with you on audio quality. That is a difficiency of the treo that is unexcusable. Especially considering we already went through it with the 650 which took 5 months for a patch. The only thing I will note on this is that the treo is just on the right side of acceptable. When you A/B it against another phone- like the TP- it becomes clear how bad it is. But for the most part it doesnt bother me on the day to day.

    Again- I am confusing people with the word "faster"- my bad. Lets say quicker from now now on. Treo gets turned on- action button is hit to unlock it and now you have several hard buttons to launch apps with a keyboard already exposed. By nature it is quicker to do the little things. The treo also scrolls text faster, which is nice when web browsing- I will admit that Opera is nice though- but more for pleasure than fact finding IMO.

    Two different devices- with radically different interfaces. Touch is smooth, beautiful and impressive. Treo is down and dirty but quick as hell.

    LA
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Anderson View Post
    Other pluses; EVDO speed- 1280kbps on DSL reports. Treo can barely do that on wifi.
    They should get the same speeds as both are RevA phones.

    Here's a test I just did where I fluctuate between 0-2bars reception.


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  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by rc46 View Post
    Yes but even with both phones having cleartype turned off the 800w is easily 10% faster. I have confirmed this with my own stop watch running multiple tests. The 800w has some kind of graphics accelerator that the Treo Pro does not. The pro lags on redraw.
    I would very much like for someone to do a video of tests, with 800w and Treo Pro options being set as near equal as possible.

    Sort of as was done with this , but with all options as near equal, to ensure neither device is inhibited.

    Hi Les:
    I did try to run it without tf3d- then I wondered what the point was...
    Well that's the trade off, but the Touch Pro certainly has the power. It's up to the user how they will use it. It's a matter of having power and choosing how you'll use it, versus not having it at all.

    If you want bleeding edge stuff your in the wrong place.
    I think you might be making more of my comment than I said. I was simply responding to your mentioning the Touch Pro is slower than the 800w.

    skfny is probably right in mentioning the Touch Pro may feel slower, but he's found it's very competitive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    They should get the same speeds as both are RevA phones.
    A device with better hardware is no surprise to perform better with broadband speeds. Regardless of both being Rev. A, the hardware improves the speed of data transfer. This is just like buying a PC with 500MB of RAM, doing Internet bandwidth speed tests, then upping it to 2GB and doing the same speed tests again. Or doing similar with swapping processors. The hardware has a very direct impact on a device's ability to handle broadband speeds.

    The following is about LAN line speeds, but true for wireless hand held devices too.
    How to Improve Your Broadband Connection over a LAN line
    Broadband Connection Speed

    The only thing better than a fast broadband Internet connection, is a faster broadband Internet connection. Broadband Internet speed tests allow you to measure your current broadband speed against that of faster broadband Internet connections. There are various programs and software packages that you can purchase through which you can increase the speed of your Internet connection. You can also make adjustments to the hardware components (Upgrade processor speed and memory levels) of your system maximizing your computerís broadband connection potential.
    A device with superior hardware, when configured to allow for its maximum potential is going to achieve better broadband speeds.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Anderson View Post
    How about the top right dedicated button below the screen? What if I told you that was a "back" button and could not be changed to anything else??? "Okay" might have been a better option. Not even magic button could touch this. "Buttons" in standard WM settings has one option!
    You would be wrong. The back button (and every other button for that matter) can be easily remapped using AE Button Plus. I've done it on the Diamond and the Touch Pro. Very simple.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    You would be wrong. The back button (and every other button for that matter) can be easily remapped using AE Button Plus. I've done it on the Diamond and the Touch Pro. Very simple.
    Magic button couldent do it. Didnt try AE Button plus.

    it certainly is not customizable in the general settings which is the real issue.
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Anderson View Post

    it certainly is not customizable in the general settings which is the real issue.
    I would like the 800w softkeys (which these other devices don't even have) to be configurable without 3rd party applications. But even the 800w has keys that can't be configured without the help of 3rd party apps.

    A real problem for we 800w owners with so much attention to the Treo Pro and Touch Pro, to the point some other sites don't even have an 800w forum, is that their issues are going to get way more attention and assistance.
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