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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Didn't you mention, that battery life is a major concern for you? Isn't the Touch Pro battery life low like the 800w?
    I think it has to be with the VGA screen. Battery life is very important but I still have the 800. I think the features out weigh the battery. It does have a 1340mAH and 4.0 hrs talk. I bet it equals out to the 800 because of the screen. Guess I'll keep topping it off like I do with the 800. Not in my hands yet. I do get the 30 day trial so I will keep the 800 until day 31 if I get that far.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    Not in my hands yet. I do get the 30 day trial so I will keep the 800 until day 31 if I get that far.
    Once you get it, be sure to do some testing of wired earphones and also how it sounds with the BT3030 and let us know.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    I think it has to be with the VGA screen. Battery life is very important but I still have the 800. I think the features out weigh the battery. It does have a 1340mAH and 4.0 hrs talk. I bet it equals out to the 800 because of the screen.
    The 800w shows a 4.5 hour talk time.

    I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "I bet it equals out to the 800 because of the screen". The specs show that there is a difference in time. Granted only half an hour which isn't much.....

    Despite the larger battery the Touch Pro will be more power hungry due to the larger screen it has (among other things).

    TBH I don't think most people would find the difference in battery life between the 800w and Touch Pro huge (if they noticed at all). For someone like me who is hitting 10-15% at the end of the work day (if I don't charge during the day), it would make the difference between being able to get through the work day (granted barely) on a single charge and having to charge (even if only for a few minutes).


    But like you said, if the other features of the Touch Pro outweigh the smaller battery, then go for it.
  4. #24  
    Ebag333, you and VRGT are saying basically the same thing although you may not have got his meaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "I bet it equals out to the 800 because of the screen". The specs show that there is a difference in time. Granted only half an hour which isn't much.....
    He's talking about as you mentioned:

    TBH I don't think most people would find the difference in battery life between the 800w and Touch Pro huge (if they noticed at all). For someone like me who is hitting 10-15% at the end of the work day (if I don't charge during the day), it would make the difference between being able to get through the work day (granted barely) on a single charge and having to charge (even if only for a few minutes).
    He's just saying the Touch Pro's screen is likely why it has short talk time, but probably is on par with the 800w overall in regards to battery life.

    Seems the makers of these new devices are not highly concerned about battery life.

    And while ignored, it's a reason many are still going with the BB, because they always have excellent battery life.

    What's the battery life on those IPhones?
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    And while ignored, it's a reason many are still going with the BB, because they always have excellent battery life.
    On battery life generally consumers are not demanding more battery life, and those of us interested in using non BB smart devices for business suffer.

    The BB is a business oriented device. Battery life, enterprise email are core uncompromised advantages in BB. BB in future may go slimmer or may have less net usable time, but I would bet that heavy user of a BB will still be able to go a 7 am to 9pm heavy workday on a single charge, something that is not even thinkable for me on a 800w.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    ...I would bet that heavy user of a BB will still be able to go a 7 am to 9pm heavy workday on a single charge, something that is not even thinkable for me on a 800w.
    With heavy use, my BB 8310 can go even more than one day before needing a charge. Whatever RIM did with the BB OS, they made sure it's easy on the battery.

    Only unless I'm literally talking on the phone most of the day do I need to charge my BB the same day.
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by rc46 View Post
    Sorry, I am over 18 and do not know what that means.
    http://www.acronymfinder.com/QFT.html
    Hey so am I! I am just lazy.
  8. #28  
    Yes, Ebag, we are saying the same thing. There probably is no difference between the two in battery life.

    I'm starting a new job next week (on top of my business) and need a work horse. Man, my Treo 700wx was just that. I will be on the road a lot more now. Worried the 800 will leave me stranded at some point. Now I'm wondering if getting rid of the Curve was a bad choice. Wish the Storm was on Sprint. I've been waiting for a high speed BB for sometime.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    With heavy use, my BB 8310 can go even more than one day before needing a charge. Whatever RIM did with the BB OS, they made sure it's easy on the battery.

    Only unless I'm literally talking on the phone most of the day do I need to charge my BB the same day.
    Keep in mind that BB's simply don't do a lot of thing that WM devices do.

    No touchscreen (at least until the new one), extremely lightweight (processor/ram/flash) on many of them (I believe that even the newer 8700's only have a 312 mhz processor and 16 megs RAM), they've trimmed down all connections to the minimum (for example IMAP doesn't download all e-mail information, such as whether it's read or not), fewer radios (do any BB's have WiFi?), using trilateration instead of standalone GPS, etc.

    It's certainly a route to go that is working very well for RIM, I'm not knocking it at all. But it's a rather different (minimalist approach) than most WM devices which try and be all things to all people.

    As I've often said, BB's do what they do very well. But take them outside what they do, and (in my personal experience) they fall short.



    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    Yes, Ebag, we are saying the same thing. There probably is no difference between the two in battery life.
    I don't know if I'd go so far as to say no difference, but yes a very minute one.
  10. #30  
    Those who don't make BBs could make devices with long battery life, if they wanted to. But they don't and we have Palm near bankruptcy. Bad battery life although not a big deal for me personally, is a very big deal for many in business. It's always been an issue most of the Treo line. While battery life is not an issue with the BBs and BB sales are up, while Palm is near bankruptcy.

    Really in the end, this issue is part of the case why a company is in very bad fiscal shape.

    Palm didn't make devices that non-business people ran to buy in massive numbers and Palm kept releasing devices with low battery life, that hurt their potential to sell with business customers.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Those who don't make BBs could make devices with long battery life, if they wanted to. But they don't and we have Palm near bankruptcy. Bad battery life although not a big deal for me personally, is a very big deal for many in business. It's always been an issue most of the Treo line. While battery life is not an issue with the BBs and BB sales are up, while Palm is near bankruptcy.

    Really in the end, this issue is part of the case why a company is in very bad fiscal shape.

    Palm didn't make devices that non-business people ran to buy in massive numbers and Palm kept releasing devices with low battery life, that hurt their potential to sell with business customers.
    If you're going to blame companies for bad battery life, why single Palm out?

    The new HTC Touch Pro has less battery life than the 800w. Compared to BB's, the Treo Pro has horrible battery life. Plenty of other devices to choose from which have as bad of life as the 800w.


    As I said, BB's are a completely different approach than WM devices. I can guarantee you that if you took the 800w (or any WM device) and:

    Removed the touchscreen
    Remove WiFi
    Remove GPS
    Remove the majority of the information downloaded (e-mail info, etc)
    Remove the ability to use tons of software
    Reduce the processor speed
    Remove 112 MB of RAM
    Remove nearly all internal storage

    If you did all that, the battery life in the 800w would skyrocket. As a simple example, when I setup IMAP (which only checks every 2 hours) at the end of the day my battery life went from 30%-40% left down to 25%-30%. But IMAP on WM brings a ton of info that BB doesn't (such as which e-mails have been read).

    You can't expect to have all of the features that most WM devices have (and some have tons more!), expect to have the same battery life, while keeping the same size device, and have the (relatively) same price. It's simply impossible. (Features, battery, size, price--pick 2 and hope you can swing the 3rd. )

    Granted even if you removed all the above the 800w would not have the same battery life as a BB (though I would bet you'd see the life triple or more).....but it would still have the capability of doing more than a BB. The BB OS, while extremely functional and efficient, is also extremely limited.

    You're comparing apples and oranges here. It'd be like comparing my truck (lifted, armored, big tires, etc) to a Toyota Prius, and complaining that the truck doesn't get nearly as much gas mileage.
  12. #32  
    It is true that the OS and a few features steal battery life.

    So why do we single Palm out? Because if we know this then they should too. We all know Windows is a memory hog so wouldn't it make sense to Palm that they needed to compensate for this? The is device building 101 here. There answer is throwing a 1150mAH Centro battery in there. Was Palm's thinking, well it's good for the Centro so it will work fine in the 800 knowing that POS and WM are two different animals. They had over 2 years to figure this out that any shmoe knows.

    You compare BB vs WM by removing all the stuff you mentioned and say it's comparing oranges and apples. That really isn't the point. The point is Palm took a very cheap, weak way out by putting a really poor battery in the 800 period.

    The Touch Pro may be no better but at least it has the feature set to make up for it.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    You're comparing apples and oranges here. It'd be like comparing my truck (lifted, armored, big tires, etc) to a Toyota Prius, and complaining that the truck doesn't get nearly as much gas mileage.
    Really? Is that really the analogy, the MPG? the mpg is known or estimated by the maker. The proper analogy to the low battery capacity on the 800w would be the size of the gas tank.

    Palms goof is exactly analogous to maker of a heavy truck, expected to go the same distance as a prius, putting in the same size gas tank as the Prius.

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    TWhile battery life is not an issue with the BBs and BB sales are up, while Palm is near bankruptcy.
    Really in the end, this issue is part of the case why a company is in very bad fiscal shape.
    Palm didn't make devices that non-business people ran to buy in massive numbers and Palm kept releasing devices with low battery life, that hurt their potential to sell with business customers.
    I think this is so on the mark.

    It is pretty clear Palm realized their mistake because the next generation device the Treo Pro sports a considerably bigger battery.
    Last edited by aero; 11/18/2008 at 06:19 PM.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    You compare BB vs WM by removing all the stuff you mentioned and say it's comparing oranges and apples. That really isn't the point. The point is Palm took a very cheap, weak way out by putting a really poor battery in the 800 period.

    The Touch Pro may be no better but at least it has the feature set to make up for it.
    You know what? Lets compare the BB's directly to WM (and heck, throw in Palm for good measure).

    Here's a list of all the PDA phones off Sprints site (with the exception of that one goofy PDA flip phone). They are ranked in order form best to worst for talk time.


    Moto Q: 7.2 hours
    BB Curve: 5.9 hours
    Treo Pro: 5.0 hours (Not on Sprint's site...yet. )
    BB Pearl: 4.6 hours
    Treo 800w: 4.5 hours
    Samsung Ace: 4.3 hours
    Treo 755p: 4.2 hours
    Touch Diamond: 4.2 hours
    HTC Mogul: 4.1 hours
    Touch Pro: 4.0 hours
    BB 8830: 3.6 hours
    Centro: 3.5 hours
    BB 7100i: 2.8 hours


    Interesting....interesting.

    So the 800w is actually the fourth best PDA phone currently sold on Sprint's site (and only .1 hours away from being 3rd). If you include the Pro, it drops to fifth, but that makes 3 of the top 5 WM phones. And 8 out of 10 of the top phones are WM. And two of the four BB's listed have absolutely atrocious talk times. (2.8 hours? Seriously?)

    Now the Moto Q has it down. 7.2 hours of talk time in a package that's about the same as the 800w. Now THAT I could sink my teeth into. Of course it does lack the touch screen.

    The Treo Pro holds up quite well, beating out every BB by a healthy margin except the Curve. Man, that's a huge gap between the Curve and Pearl.

    Of course all the BB's still lack all the features that WM offers.



    This actually throws a lot of my preconceptions off. I never looked in depth at the BB's, and just assumed they had the incredibly battery life that the used to. Of course now with added features (color LCD's, faster, more power intensive radios, etc) that battery life edge is quickly going away.

    I also had thought that the Palm OS should be better (or at least equal) to WM on battery life. But the 800w eeks an entire extra hour of talk time than the Centro does.



    So I guess I was wrong on the BB's having that much better battery life than the WM devices. I still say comparing the two is apples to oranges.


    So if you folks want to bash Palm for their HORRIBLE battery life, just remember it's better than 2/3rds of the devices sold on Sprint's site. Make sure you include HTC, Samsung, and BB in those complaints.



    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Really? Is that really the analogy, the MPG? the mpg is known or estimated by the maker. The proper analogy to the low battery capacity on the 800w would be the size of the gas tank.

    Palms goof is exactly analogous to maker of a heavy truck, expected to go the same distance as a prius, putting in the same size gas tank as the Prius.
    Thanks for taking that example to the next natural step.

    Now obviously it's not perfect, but it does work rather well here.

    In this case you might say that the truck (800w) gets better MPG (talk time) than the car (centro) with the same size fuel tank (battery).

    That's actually seriously impressive!

    (Especially when you consider that that 800w has a smaller battery than many of it's competitors, and yet manages to have longer life.)
  15. #35  
    Dude, if you actually believe those battery hour numbers I got some $10 Palm stock to sell you.

    The Centro gets less than the 800? Hahahaha..........that's classic!

    The Palm Treo 800 looked good on paper too just like those battery numbers.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    The Treo Pro holds up quite well, beating out every BB by a healthy margin except the Curve. Man, that's a huge gap between the Curve and Pearl.

    Of course all the BB's still lack all the features that WM offers.

    This actually throws a lot of my preconceptions off. I never looked in depth at the BB's, and just assumed they had the incredibly battery life that the used to. Of course now with added features (color LCD's, faster, more power intensive radios, etc) that battery life edge is quickly going away.
    Honestly and sincerely with out be in sarcastic. I feel you have the cart before the horse in your logic.

    Firstly lots of us have used BB. Some of us are coming from heavy BB use. I get assigned one every few months for contract jobs. The numbers are totally at variance with real experience of everyone who has used a BB. No one who has gone form a BB to a treo, and back and forth thinks the Treo holds a candle in battey life.

    Again I would return to the discussion MPG. The Treo in short is an MPG pig,
    you are correct in that it is a power pig because it does a lot more.

    But the discussion is about battery LIFE. Battery life=power drain/capacity.

    you are saying the 800ws power drain is more (worse mpg) -- with the added point that it does more. Agreed!

    I used to have a toshiba 1000 ( step up from my Kaypro). I traveled all over the developing world with it (used a 50 buad telex modem and a 300 baud telephony modem I built myself). it had no backlit screen. It had extra ram you could configure as disk space and run word perfect (oh yeah) off of ram with no use of the mechanical disk (single 720). you just wrote to disk to save every ten minutes. it lasted a full eight hours on battery. My next Toshiba had backlight and an hdd. its battery lasted about 90- minutes. So I did my WTF on battery life long ago.

    So I agree a lot of this is subjective and a lot is based on higher power use from more function on 800w -- and the issue of battery capacity has been the subject to debate since batteries were invented.

    The issue is net effect, whether 1400 or 1500 would have been wise for Palm (I BET they think it would have) and the subjective tipping point at which most of the users are going to be satisfied or dissatisfied.

    Look at the CNET reviews. I am sure a number are cranks. But 90% of the the positive reviews, from people who say they like or love love their 800w say the battery life on the 800w in the toilet.

    Three is a balance here in discussing that as well. You are correct in saying the power and capability are balancing issues. But people who don't like the battery life shouldn't be dismissed either. Palm didn't like the battery life!

    I measured the batteries some time ago. I came up with about 5% more volume in the phone would have given use 25% more battery life. That would have been nice.

    I think all of us would have liked a bigger gas tank.
  17. #37  
    You know what's cool about posting hard facts? I can sit back and let it stand for itself.

    The thing about those numbers is that while they come from the Sprint site, they're the manufacturers numbers.

    I might suggest to you that people using BB's use them in a copletely different manner. How many people use BB's to watch movies? Play music? Post on TC (something I'm doing now through my Redfly)?

    Compared to WM, almost none. Why do you think the 3rd party program list for BB's is tiny compared to WM?

    But don't believe me, go ahead and use a BB like you would a WM device. Ooooh, minor problem...you can't.


    Unless you two are suggesting that there's a conspiracy by RIM to make themselves look bad to the 800w (and other WM devices), the numbers stand for themselves. Let me say it one more time: they are RIM's numbers.

    But hey, don't take my (or Sprints, or RIM/Palm/HTC/Samsung) word for it. Go get one of those devices and do a 30 day trial on it. Measure the talk time, and see how far it's off. I'm sure RIM will thank you once you show them that they lied on their battery life.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    You know what's cool about posting hard facts? I can sit back and let it stand for itself.
    Yeah when the are out of context to the discussion at hand.

    People come halfway and try to accommodate what you are saying and you insist on being dismissive.

    I guess that is why you can't understand why Palm is failing and Rim is eating them for lunch.

    Don't you get it? everyone else does. The reviewers agree, the users agree, the 800w is underpowered for the power it draws. It is a design defect. A design problem. The BBs have NO power design defect or problem and the 800W does. The Treo has bad planning for battery capcity and the Rim doesn't not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    But don't believe me, go ahead and use a BB like you would a WM device. Ooooh, minor problem...you can't.
    Unless you two are suggesting that there's a conspiracy by RIM
    Got to love this silly sarcasm. You don't have the vaguest understanding of the business MARKET. People are not going out and saying: "let me get a WM device."

    They are saying: "I need a professional business device. " Why the fark do you think they are chosing Rim? Shall we use childish sarcasm and say: "Ebag's theory is that it a consiparcy?"

    By the way if you don't know why rim's push uses less then polling and therefore combined talk and email use less power and, why dumb straight talk time is not a accurage measure, of buisness battery pwoer use, not only do yo not know the market considerations, you don't know the technology either.
    Last edited by aero; 11/18/2008 at 08:40 PM.
  19. #39  
    Palm created devices that too few people wanted. They simply never got it right for the marketplace and that's a big factor in their being near bankruptcy. They've had a history of losing cash, a full history of never getting it right.

    They didn't make devices to directly compete with the design of the devices general consumers wanted, but HTC is doing that. They didn't make devices that met all the needs of business consumers, which includes strong battery life, RIM is doing that. That leaves Palm, near bankruptcy.

    Of course "we" enjoyed their stuff, we kept buying it. But Palm failed to meet the demands of the greater marketplace.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    People come halfway and try to accommodate what you are saying and you insist on being dismissive.
    My comments about letting the numbers stand for themselves is not being dismissive, merely me stating that I'm going to let my post stand on it's own merits.

    < < Edited by Dieter > >
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