View Poll Results: Would you buy another smart phone on day 1 or before its release?

Voters
31. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I may buy another smart phone on day 1 or prior to its release.

    10 32.26%
  • Yes I may buy another smart phone on day one, but not prior to its release.

    6 19.35%
  • No, I won't buy another smart phone on day 1 or or prior to its release.

    7 22.58%
  • I never buy a smart phone on day 1 or prior to its release.

    8 25.81%
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Results 21 to 40 of 42
  1. #21  
    You two quoting each other in every thread is getting weird.

    I think the moral of this thread is they just don't make them like the use to. Seems new technology is just so damn buggy (examples made above- iPhone, XBox, etc.). The Sanyo phones in my sig. below had old technology and old played out design but they were so solid. More like a Porsche 911. Same design for for years and years just revamped every once in awhile. One of the reasons I bought another Treo. The 700wx for me was very solid. When I got my hands on the 800 on day 1 I was blown away. It just didn't live up to the old standard. Just like the new Sanyo phones don't live up to the old standard either. Both Sanyo and Palm are pretty much done (I know the fanboys refuse to believe). Design is nothing special, quality took a dive and finally marketshare went bye-bye. It will take a hail mary to save either company. Neither have anything up their sleeve. Day 1 device days are over for many (see poll, currently 49% won't anymore or have never bought on day 1). In years past without hesitation but now its more of wait and see first.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  2.    #22  
    You're right VRGT, the issues coming up these days simply are not like it used to be. And it's because more is offered and more is expected of them. Here's my history:

    Palm Professional -> Visor Prism -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> Treo 800w.

    And all the way, there certainly were bugs in every single one. However, for me personally, it's getting to a point were the bugs coming up in these latest and greatest of devices, are matters I'm not looking to stumble upon unknowingly in the future. Because of the varied features, I'd rather see how these things road test with average Joe's for a bit.

    And you're right, just look at the way the poll is going so far. A significant percentage of people are moving out of the day 1 camp.

    All of us expect some bugs out of the gate, but Palm has caused more unexpected headaches than the desired threshold for a good number of us. To the point, the day 1 buying of smart phones for a good portion of us is over.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    I think the moral of this thread is they just don't make them like the use to. Seems new technology is just so damn buggy (examples made above- iPhone, XBox, etc.). The Sanyo phones in my sig. below had old technology and old played out design but they were so solid. More like a Porsche 911. Same design for for years and years just revamped every once in awhile. One of the reasons I bought another Treo. The 700wx for me was very solid. When I got my hands on the 800 on day 1 I was blown away. It just didn't live up to the old standard. Just like the new Sanyo phones don't live up to the old standard either. Both Sanyo and Palm are pretty much done (I know the fanboys refuse to believe). Design is nothing special, quality took a dive and finally marketshare went bye-bye. It will take a hail mary to save either company. Neither have anything up their sleeve. Day 1 device days are over for many (see poll, currently 49% won't anymore or have never bought on day 1). In years past without hesitation but now its more of wait and see first.
    I think this makes sense. But I think you really also have to considered what is advertised and promoted. Sound quality, build quality issues are one thing. But A feature specifically promoted by a maker presumably was at least tested. It is nothing short of negligent and quite possibly fraudulent to promote prominently a feature that does not exist at all.
  4. #24  
    There are more bugs today because the devices are much more complicated.

    For one, the Treo 650 was an unstable beast. I love it and there were really no other options at the time, but who remembers fiddling with Resco Locker and having huge debates on NVFS? Or remember the "loss preferences" bug where the device reset itself and lost all your registration and setup info for all your apps? Yeah, I do not miss those days at all.

    In 2008, our devices
    • Have 2 radios: one for voice; one for data (w/revision A to boot) vs. just one radio years ago
    • BT is more complicated now with A2DP/AVRCP/Voice Command
    • Wifi vs. no Wifi
    • GPS/aGPs vs some basic inaccessible e911 tool
    • Explosion in Ram/Rom
    • Drastic shrinking of the chipsets
    • etc

    Plus other devices have things like accelerometers, light sensors, TV out, FM radio, Wimax, capacitive/multi-touch screens. On top of this, there is an OS (WM) that only MS can modify and develop and everyone else (manufacturers) have to work around its limitations, program for and merge with hardware.

    I don't envy those who have to develop these products. They're some of the most advanced and complicated gizmos on the planet. I'm flat out in awe of what we are doing with them these days.

    But at the end of the day...it's a freakin' phone. That's it. This is not like buying a car, having a kid or a serious decision in your life. If you have to spend more than a few days deciding on it, you probably are giving it too much thought anyways. Take a walk outside, put the device down.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    There are more bugs today because the devices are much more complicated.
    We totally agree.

    But at the end of the day...it's a freakin' phone. That's it. This is not like buying a car, having a kid or a serious decision in your life. If you have to spend more than a few days deciding on it, you probably are giving it too much thought anyways. Take a walk outside, put the device down.
    Given the device has more features and is more complicated than prior devices, the time needed to fully review the device is going to go beyond a few days for many. It's not just a phone. It's way more than a phone and that's why it's more complicated, because it's more than a phone. The product name "Treo" was never used to assert the device should ever be thought of as simply a phone. Even the Treo 300 was:
    • Phone
    • PDA
    • Web


    These devices were always marketed to be thought of as multi-feature devices, not simply phones.

    For some, the cost of these devices is equivalent to a car payment, so yes some may think more than a few days about it. People are putting up their hard earned money. Hundreds of dollars is a serious decision for many of us.

    But I think, the more a consumer knows about the device before purchase, the less time they'll need to review it personally. So waiting a while after release helps identify issues.

    With the GPS matter, what if someone such as Aero didn't go out of the USA for a couple of months after purchase and never read anything here? He'd get outside the country months after purchase and only then realize the 800w has no working stand alone GPS. So sometimes finding problems goes way beyond a few days. It could even go months. Which is why there is a 1 year warranty. Especially considering those who don't have time or opportunity to use sites such as this one, their review period could be a long one.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    I think this makes sense. But I think you really also have to considered what is advertised and promoted. Sound quality, build quality issues are one thing. But A feature specifically promoted by a maker presumably was at least tested. It is nothing short of negligent and quite possibly fraudulent to promote prominently a feature that does not exist at all.
    Correct. A child could have tested the GPS on the 800w and found it to be defective. Nice work, Palm.
  7. #27  
    I don't know about anyone else, but I'm starting to get the impression that aero and nsxprime aren't happy with the GPS.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    There are more bugs today because the devices are much more complicated.

    For one, the Treo 650 was an unstable beast. I love it and there were really no other options at the time, but who remembers fiddling with Resco Locker and having huge debates on NVFS? Or remember the "loss preferences" bug where the device reset itself and lost all your registration and setup info for all your apps? Yeah, I do not miss those days at all.

    In 2008, our devices
    • Have 2 radios: one for voice; one for data (w/revision A to boot) vs. just one radio years ago
    • BT is more complicated now with A2DP/AVRCP/Voice Command
    • Wifi vs. no Wifi
    • GPS/aGPs vs some basic inaccessible e911 tool
    • Explosion in Ram/Rom
    • Drastic shrinking of the chipsets
    • etc

    Plus other devices have things like accelerometers, light sensors, TV out, FM radio, Wimax, capacitive/multi-touch screens. On top of this, there is an OS (WM) that only MS can modify and develop and everyone else (manufacturers) have to work around its limitations, program for and merge with hardware.

    I don't envy those who have to develop these products. They're some of the most advanced and complicated gizmos on the planet. I'm flat out in awe of what we are doing with them these days.

    But at the end of the day...it's a freakin' phone. That's it. This is not like buying a car, having a kid or a serious decision in your life. If you have to spend more than a few days deciding on it, you probably are giving it too much thought anyways. Take a walk outside, put the device down.
    This is a cop out. As a business owner we say "if the competition can do it then so can we but better." I just don't see the complication if you have over 2 years to develop it. Your either in the business or your a bystander. Which one is Palm? It is clear their stance is to not go after the pie they once owned but rather try to get a tiny piece of it. That is a dying phylosophy in this market. Raise one hand and wave bye-bye to Palm, game over. The Hail Mary has been batted away by HTC.

    Oh and BTW it is different when you get a free device in exchange for a good review vs. those who had to pay full price. Five hundred plus dollars is a hefty price to pay for a mediocure device.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    This is a cop out. As a business owner we say "if the competition can do it then so can we but better." I just don't see the complication if you have over 2 years to develop it. Your either in the business or your a bystander. Which one is Palm? It is clear their stance is to not go after the pie they once owned but rather try to get a tiny piece of it. That is a dying phylosophy in this market. Raise one hand and wave bye-bye to Palm, game over. The Hail Mary has been batted away by HTC.
    I didn't even mention Palm.

    I consider HTC, Palm, Samsung, Apple, Motorola, etc. all to be as buggy, have flaws, things I would do differently, etc. There is not one device out there that does not have a laundry list of "issues". Not one. And it doesn't take long to find major ones for "new" devices l

    • Diamond and Pro: overheating/unable to charge while on a call
    • Motorola Q: corrupted ROM on charging a dead battery
    • Motorola Q9c: Dust under the screen (carry over from first Q); had to be pulled temporarily for large amount of returns
    • Samsung Epix: poor sensitivity on the touch screen
    • Sprint Mogul: not enough RAM (pretty obvious); terrible BT


    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    Oh and BTW it is different when you get a free device in exchange for a good review vs. those who had to pay full price. Five hundred plus dollars is a hefty price to pay for a mediocure device.
    No one from any of the review sites get free devices.

    Some sites get temporary loaners that they use to review and send back. The rest we have to go into a store and buy. That's how Dieter got the AT&T Fuze: bought it off of craig's list.

    < < Edited by Dieter > >

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I didn't even mention Palm.

    I consider HTC, Palm, Samsung, Apple, Motorola, etc. all to be as buggy, have flaws, things I would do differently, etc. There is not one device out there that does not have a laundry list of "issues". Not one. And it doesn't take long to find major ones for "new" devices l

    • Diamond and Pro: overheating/unable to charge while on a call
    • Motorola Q: corrupted ROM on charging a dead battery
    • Motorola Q9c: Dust under the screen (carry over from first Q); had to be pulled temporarily for large amount of returns
    • Samsung Epix: poor sensitivity on the touch screen
    • Sprint Mogul: not enough RAM (pretty obvious); terrible BT



    No one from any of the review sites get free devices.

    Some sites get temporary loaners that they use to review and send back. The rest we have to go into a store and buy. That's how Dieter got the AT&T Fuze: bought it off of craig's list.

    < < Edited by Dieter > >.
    < < Edited by Dieter > >
    I'm not throwing stones at you (I wouldn't waste my time) but rather at Palm. I noticed you didn't add the Palm 800 to your buggy list. Hmm...could it be because it has more issues than the others? Dust under the screen? Hell I'd take that on the 800 if it could deliver more battery life. Poor sentativity on the touchscreen? That's it, are you kidding. I'd trade that for better audio earpiece quality. Unable to charge during a call? Your joking, I'd trade that for real GPS. None of those bugs are even near the 800's.

    I'm sure all the devices that come in into WME are full priced. Yeah, we will buy that one when Palm's stock price gets to $10.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  11. #31  
    < < edited by Dieter > >

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  12. #32  
    < < edited by dieter > >
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  13. #33  
    < < edited by Dieter > >
    Done.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  14.    #34  
    < < edited by Dieter > >
    Last edited by darnell; 11/17/2008 at 11:50 AM.
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    No one from any of the review sites get free devices.

    Some sites get temporary loaners that they use to review and send back. The rest we have to go into a store and buy.
    Malatesta, I hope you don't mind me asking, but I think it would totally clear any misconceptions anyone may have if you do answer. How much did you pay out of pocket for your Treo 800w? I've mentioned here before, that after rebates and taxes I paid $395.31 up front and got a $100 rebate check later in the mail from Sprint. All discounts I received were because of my being a long time Sprint customer.

    I never asked you before, because I felt it was a bit too personal, but now it's in the open and you spoke directly to the concern. If you could answer it would leave nothing to assumption.

    Given you are a reviewer of products, there is often times a perception, that reviewers get special breaks not available to the general public. I've had a personal friend who reviewed camcorders and at times they were able to get products for free or with special discounts not available to anyone else. It seemed there were times they could not get a really nice product for anything but full price, but often they could get special breaks.

    So anything else you can detail regarding your relationship with the product manufacturers would go a long way in helping understanding.

    Normally these sorts of things are not talked about regarding reviewers like yourself, however you've chosen to engage in much of the dialog here. So I'm sure many are wondering if you're a guy putting up equal investment or someone who may be getting some special benefit.

    I only ask so that the air is clear in this regard.
  16. #36  
    Personally, I never get the gotta-have-its and buy it on the first day, good thing or I'd have gone through 15 different smartphones by now. Usually playing with it in the store or borrowing somebody else's, plus reading the forums is good enough to decide.

    I bought the 800w, warts and all, knowing full well what I was getting. And I paid cash without contract so I could resell and swap at a moment's notice.

    I agree with other people's comments that this phone is no different than any other, all phones seem to have issues.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Malatesta, I hope you don't mind me asking, but I think it would totally clear any misconceptions anyone may have if you do answer. How much did you pay out of pocket for your Treo 800w?
    < < Edited by Dieter > >

    Darnell, please add me to your ignore list/don't ever respond to my posts again.

    I haven't posted here for years, helping people, getting developers involved with projects, promoting independent software developers and being a smartphone enthusiast for this treatment.

    I'm a grad student (neurolinguistics) and a film projectionist--no ties to the industry, not even stock. And all you have to do is ask Dieter who hired me.



    Last edited by Malatesta; 11/17/2008 at 01:26 PM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  18.    #38  
    < < Edited by Dieter > >

    Darnell, please add me to your ignore list/don't ever respond to my posts again.
    Well I've mentioned you could do that for me anytime you like.

    No, I'm not going to add you to my ignore list and yes I just may respond to you again. In fact, I am right now. So if you want to cut it off, you do the deed and ignore me.

    I haven't posted here for years, helping people, getting developers involved with projects, promoting independent software developers and being a smartphone enthusiast for this treatment.
    Well I have not been here for years for you to call me all the many names you've called me here, while I've not called you one. But look who's assuming the role of the victim.

    I didn't need to see your statement, but if you did pay $583.31 for the Treo 800w and that figure does not involve any other breaks or discounts, than hey it's good to know you're as financially vested as anyone else. I apologize to you openly, for even thinking you may be getting a break of some sort. All you've done is refute VRGT's assertion about you with proof. If someone claims you're not financially vested like the rest of us, I'll speak up for you myself regarding your level of financial investment. (Even though you probably don't want me to.)
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Malatesta, I hope you don't mind me asking, but I think it would totally clear any misconceptions anyone may have if you do answer. How much did you pay out of pocket for your Treo 800w? I've mentioned here before, that after rebates and taxes I paid $395.31 up front and got a $100 rebate check later in the mail from Sprint. All discounts I received were because of my being a long time Sprint customer..
    Darnell. I strongly believe he got no special break and had to sign the same contract. I do not think there is any ethical issue whatsoever with Mal.

    He did answer this directly before. Disagree as we might all on some things I find his answer 100% credible.

    Early on I mentioned the culture of reviewers, especially of new technology, and that simply because of the business or even non paying interest (aficionado, expert interest not "special interest" in the pejorative),
    that they maybe more forgiving of flaws, not becasue of an ethical issue or a conflict, because:
    a) by their nature they are looking at the next thing quicker (and lets not forget that we get the benifit of their doing that!) They are reading up, perhaps going to or following the info from trade shows etc. They know the handset in their hand is yesteraday's news
    b) by their experience, especially having been around when smartphones were bleeding edge and not mass marketed , and they have seen lots of failed promises, glitches, busted features, conflicts with hardware and software, etc.
    c) besides reading here of real objective complaints, they also read a lot of complaints on relative and subjective problems, or complaints on issues that have nothing to do with the particular handset but still blamed on the handset. (EG no mms decision by Sprint)

    I think that goes to the different views and nothing else.

    I've read a lot of his posts. he is putting a lot of problems that are not really problems in perspective. I think for the record he has stated clearly that Standalone GPS is not working as a Palm advertised.

    His long standing public definition of Standalone GPS his the Standalone vs aGPS article is actually an authorative expert opinion and one that gives us a lot of assistance in pressuring Palm and Sprint.

    I think any disconnect, or even confrontation, or even If I think him wrong on one or two points, is coming from something more benign in its roots. Does it come off as, or even is it actually patronizing some times? yes. But all around we have become strident on this and we have all ticked each other off in one way or anther.

    So let's be careful, Mal hasn't asked us if we work for a competing company, it isn't just that I am sure he knows we don;'t, but rather because if we stand back the differences are rational for reasons that have nothing to do with ethics.

    Now it isn't "tin foil hat" to think Palm's PRPRPR $people$ $wouldn$'$t$ $on$ $in$ $here$ $occasion$. $Palm$'$s$ $PR$ $firm$ $wrote$ $the$ $book$ $on$ $screwing$ $around$ $on$ $net$ $opinion$, $penetrating$ $blogs$, $creating$ $fake$ $blogs$ (&$quot$;$flogs$&$quot$;) $and$ $posing$ $on$ $the$ $net$ $as$ $what$ $they$ $are$ $not$. $But$ $generally$ $that$ $is$ $down$ $with$ $little$ $drive$ $by$ $attacks$ $on$ $critics$, $and$ $not$ $by$ $sustained$ $and$ $expert$ $opinion$ $such$ $as$ $Mal$'$s$.

    If you look at postings or listen to the podcasts at times Mal has been plenty critical of Palm.

    I think the only thing to ask of Mal is to consider that these are now mass marketed products, and that they are expensive to the owner regardless of one time discounts, with for example the case of the standalone GPS it wasn't a buried and implied or inferred feature but a prominently advertised one. And functions the maker decides to feature should have been tested by the maker itself.
    Last edited by aero; 11/17/2008 at 03:09 PM.
  20. #40  
    < < edited by dieter > >
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