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  1. #61  
    Hi dannzeman,

    Quote Originally Posted by dannzeman View Post
    Whats the difference between an 8x zoom built into the camera and cropping the pic after its been taken? Its essentially the same thing only the camera software is doing for you.
    It's a matter of convenience. If Palm released an 8x digital zoom update for the Treo 800w, who would simply refuse to install it? That's the viewpoint from which some of us find 8x digital zoom to be of some benefit. It's a small convenience, that's available on the Treo Pro.


    Palm does make an adapter for the 800w that has 2 micro usb slots so you can charge and use your headphones at the same time.
    VRGT is speaking about a 3.5mm audio jack.

    I like the flush screen too, but that doesn't make it better than the 800w's. I know you never said it did, but others seem to think because its flush its better. And where is all this junk coming from that you need to keep cleaning out? I've never had to do anything more than wipe the screen with my shirt after a call.
    Well let's remember VRGT has grimy hands . (Just kidding VRGT.)

    I don't desire the flush screen and really prefer having soft keys that are above the screen. But in terms of what many find as a benefit, that includes the flush screen. It's not for you or me, but it is viewed as a benefit for many. For example, Yirk likes the flush screen and I don't blame Yirk for liking it. It's just one of the reasons some people are buying the Treo Pro instead of the 800w. There is a market for the flush touch screen, you and I are not that market, but that does not necessarily make us the majority either. And Palm is near collapse, they need something that will sell big.

    They're probably still laughing about this. Just pathetic. Palm should have known better. But Seidio has an extended batter thats the same size, although we shouldn't have to resort to that option.
    Why trade both just for battery life when you can buy that and keep it in the same form factor? I used a Centro before my 800w and to me it is a deal breaker. That keyboard is so small I'd make too many mistakes when typing.
    Yea I'm no fan of the Treo Pro's Playschool keyboard either .

    Regarding the bigger battery for the 800w, that maintains the 800w's current form factor, it's not a 1500mAh lithium-ion, that is a 1350mAh lithium-ion and there have been many complaints about it. Poll results, thread comments.

    Statements about the advantages of the Treo Pro were made, so those who were wondering why some do prefer the Treo Pro would know what those advantages are. Of course those are from the viewpoint of those who desire a Treo Pro.

    Palm made both, there is a market for both. Likely the Treo Pro market is much greater. Apart from we who own Treo 800w's, most who look at both the Treo Pro and 800w prefer the Treo Pro.
  2. ehehat's Avatar
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    #62  
    Just FYI....

    the 1350mah battery by Seidio has been fixed. I've been using it in my 800w for at least the last week with zero issues. Works very well .

    And I agree that there are features about the Pro that I can see being much more attractive to alot more people than the 800w (like the 3.5mm jack) and I also agree that I dont believe that (in its pressent form) the Pro is a device that I would go after (keyboard/speed/easy scratching) but it is very encouraging that Palm is releasing more products that apeal to more people and in shorter amounts of time. Who knows? maybe theres hope for Palm yet....
    Devices used: Palm VIIx - Tungsten T - Tungsten T3 - HP ipaq 4155 - Tungsten T5 - BB 7520 - Treo 650 - Treo 700wx - Treo 755p - Q9c - BB 8130 - Treo 800w - HTC Touch Pro - BB 8330 - BB 8520 - HTC HD2 - Palm Pre
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    VRGT is speaking about a 3.5mm audio jack.
    Ahh. I guess I missed that. Who is making a 3.5mm adapter? I didn't think there was a working one out yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    Well let's remember VRGT has grimy hands . (Just kidding VRGT.)
    hehe
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    Regarding the bigger battery for the 800w, that maintains the 800w's current form factor, it's not a 1500mAh lithium-ion, that is a 1350mAh lithium-ion and there have been many complaints about it. Poll results, thread comments.
    Whats the difference in physical size between the Pro and 800w battery? It'd be nice if the Pro battery just slid right into the 800w...
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by dannzeman View Post
    Ahh. I guess I missed that. Who is making a 3.5mm adapter? I didn't think there was a working out yet.
    You're right, nobody is making one. Seidio researched it and abandoned their efforts. It seems too costly to make a 3.5mm adapter that would sell. I'm trying a last ditch wired test, but that requires 2 adapaters and some people are making their own. If my test fails, I'll probably get a BT adapter like the BT3030.

    Whats the difference in physical size between the Pro and 800w battery? It'd be nice if the Pro battery just slid right into the 800w...
    The Treo Pro battery is way bigger. It fits the Treo Pro, because the Treo Pro has it made so it's really long and takes up much of the back of the device. There are pictures around here somewhere or links to pictures.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    You're right, nobody is making one.
    So how is VRGT using wired headphones?
  6. Rhody's Avatar
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    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by dannzeman View Post
    So how is VRGT using wired headphones?
    Didn't your Treo800w come with headphones?
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by ehehat View Post
    Just FYI....

    the 1350mah battery by Seidio has been fixed
    So you're spending $$$$ on an aftermarket battery that's still much smaller than the Treo Pro's battery. It's also silly to assume that Seidio won't release an extended slim battery for the Treo Pro as well. Probably something around 1800mAh. That's a huge difference in batttery capacity.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by dannzeman View Post
    So how is VRGT using wired headphones?
    You buy your device used? It comes with headphones. I listen to music all the time with them. I also have a BT set but the battery is dead after a couple of songs.

    Yes, I actually do have grimy hands. I'm not ashamed to admit it. I doubt I can even hold a Pro in my hands for just a couple of seconds.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    You buy your device used? It comes with headphones. I listen to music all the time with them. I also have a BT set but the battery is dead after a couple of songs.

    Yes, I actually do have grimy hands. I'm not ashamed to admit it. I doubt I can even hold a Pro in my hands for just a couple of seconds.
    I started with this:
    Quote Originally Posted by VRGT
    It has the audio jack we all wish the 800 had. We can't charge our phones while using the headset. Today I listened to music until the battery was almost dead.
    I replied with:
    Quote Originally Posted by dannzeman
    Palm does make an adapter for the 800w that has 2 micro usb slots so you can charge and use your headphones at the same time
    Then darnell said:
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    VRGT is speaking about a 3.5mm audio jack.
    I replied:
    Quote Originally Posted by dannzeman
    Ahh. I guess I missed that. Who is making a 3.5mm adapter? I didn't think there was a working one out yet.
    Then darnell replied:
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    You're right, nobody is making one. Seidio researched it and abandoned their efforts. It seems too costly to make a 3.5mm adapter that would sell. I'm trying a last ditch wired test, but that requires 2 adapaters and some people are making their own. If my test fails, I'll probably get a BT adapter like the BT3030.
    Then finally me again:
    Quote Originally Posted by dannzeman
    So how is VRGT using wired headphones?
  10. #70  
    It was all a misunderstanding. VibrantRedGT and dannzeman, here's a free Treo 800w 3.5mm audio adapter free from me to each of you.

    Oh that's right, nobody makes one, nevermind .
  11. ehehat's Avatar
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    #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    So you're spending $$$$ on an aftermarket battery that's still much smaller than the Treo Pro's battery. It's also silly to assume that Seidio won't release an extended slim battery for the Treo Pro as well. Probably something around 1800mAh. That's a huge difference in batttery capacity.
    um...yeah. it wouldnt really make sence to buy a pro battery if i already have the 800w now would it?

    who has assumed that Seidio wont release an extended battery for the pro?

    darnell stated that several people were complaining about the 1350 battery for the 800w (i was one of them). I was simply stating that that particular product had been fixed. To try to read something else into this post is what's "silly".
    Devices used: Palm VIIx - Tungsten T - Tungsten T3 - HP ipaq 4155 - Tungsten T5 - BB 7520 - Treo 650 - Treo 700wx - Treo 755p - Q9c - BB 8130 - Treo 800w - HTC Touch Pro - BB 8330 - BB 8520 - HTC HD2 - Palm Pre
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by RickMG View Post
    I hate to chime in here, but the Pro is still Palm. HTC is just the company they have building it. Palm didn't build the 800, it was contracted out. Much the same as Nike or Converse uses companies all over the world to make their items. The people who make them don't design them. I know they are using some HTC parts, but I doubt HTC designed the pro or they'd be paying for the use of Palm's name. That's not the case here I don't think. So I don't think it makes a difference who is building it but I think HTC is a great company to have picked to build it.
    Rick, I am not sure that Nike or Converse is an apt analogy.

    There are differences between ODM (Original Design Manufacture) and CM (Contract Manufacture) and OEM.

    NO one outside of Palm has all the fact but HTC is not just a maker, they are an engineering and design firm. The experts here have indicatred that it is likely that HTC had a much much more desing and engineering input in the Treo Pro that whoever the final ODM or CM of the 800w.

    I don't understand your statement that you "doubt HTC designed the Pro or they'd be paying to use Palms name." From a legal standpoint, Palm is the maker of both the Treo Pro and the Treo 800w. Palm is paying the manufacturer and or Manufacture and design firms for work they do for them.

    Legal maker is not the same as contract manufacture or ODM.

    Example: if you buy a Sears "Kenmore" appliance, sears didn;t make it. In mos cases if sears did all the engineering, perhaps conttracted with OEM parts makers (eg qualcomm) and drew up all the diagrams for where each part went, the company that manufactgurers it would be an cM.

    If they went to whirlpool and said we want a "30 gallon washer that does this and that, and bring it in at a $200 cost to us, and we will take 300,000 units, figure it out" then Whirlpool is the ODM.

    These are very different ways of making things (although there are lots of hybrids) but from the consumer perspective and a legal and warrant relationship, the maker is in both cases Sears Kenmore.

    At a certain point companies that excel in ODM can begin self branding because they learn enough about the market and because they get a reputation for good products and good design. That is exactly what HTC (and LG) did. But they also can and do often continue their ODM and CM businesses.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by dannzeman View Post
    Whats the difference between an 8x zoom built into the camera and cropping the pic after its been taken? Its essentially the same thing only the camera software is doing for you.
    Cropping does not always give the same quality. That's why. Firstly depending on how strong or weak center weighting is your exposure maybe more accurate with zoom then zoom and crop. Same is possible with focus.
    On top of that cropped images non raw format can be worse than digital zoom.

    But all of this is really less of an issue than the main one on a camera phone or camera smart phone, which is that you are likely taking the pictures to later display on the device itself or taking them to text or email. In those case the process of editing and cropping adds an extra step.

    I don't consider digital zoom on a general camera much of a value, but there is some utility and value on a camera phone. No one was saying it is a big feature or huge advantage to have it, but it is of some advantage some of the time.

    Features that merely save time are not useless, lots of the features we laud here only do just that!
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    It was all a misunderstanding. VibrantRedGT and dannzeman, here's a free Treo 800w 3.5mm audio adapter free from me to each of you.

    Oh that's right, nobody makes one, nevermind .
    Thank you sir, may I have another!
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  15. #75  
    I've been using a 700p for a few years and was mostly happy with it, but I wanted wi-fi and a browser that could access secure web sites. I was seduced by the VGA screen on the Touch Pro and scared off by the battery life of the 800W. So far I am not very happy with the Touch Pro, it just seems like way more work to do anything than on the 700p. I suppose part of it is a WM learning curve, but the slide out keyboard is never going to be as convenient as the front facing keyboard.

    I'm going to spend a little more time with the Touch Pro, but I suspect that before my 30 days are up I'm going to trade it in. If the Treo Pro is not out yet, I'll go for the 800W.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by mwrob View Post
    I'm going to spend a little more time with the Touch Pro, but I suspect that before my 30 days are up I'm going to trade it in. If the Treo Pro is not out yet, I'll go for the 800W.
    Sprint let my mom use 5 devices (yes, 5 ) at the same time. She could only have one activated at a time, but she had them all so she could play with them.

    Even without the phones being activated you can get a real good feel for how they work, and it's relatively quick (usually an hour tops) to activate a phone if you want to use it for a while.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Rick, I am not sure that Nike or Converse is an apt analogy.

    There are differences between ODM (Original Design Manufacture) and CM (Contract Manufacture) and OEM.

    NO one outside of Palm has all the fact but HTC is not just a maker, they are an engineering and design firm. The experts here have indicatred that it is likely that HTC had a much much more desing and engineering input in the Treo Pro that whoever the final ODM or CM of the 800w.

    I don't understand your statement that you "doubt HTC designed the Pro or they'd be paying to use Palms name." From a legal standpoint, Palm is the maker of both the Treo Pro and the Treo 800w. Palm is paying the manufacturer and or Manufacture and design firms for work they do for them.

    Legal maker is not the same as contract manufacture or ODM.

    Example: if you buy a Sears "Kenmore" appliance, sears didn;t make it. In mos cases if sears did all the engineering, perhaps conttracted with OEM parts makers (eg qualcomm) and drew up all the diagrams for where each part went, the company that manufactgurers it would be an cM.

    If they went to whirlpool and said we want a "30 gallon washer that does this and that, and bring it in at a $200 cost to us, and we will take 300,000 units, figure it out" then Whirlpool is the ODM.

    These are very different ways of making things (although there are lots of hybrids) but from the consumer perspective and a legal and warrant relationship, the maker is in both cases Sears Kenmore.

    At a certain point companies that excel in ODM can begin self branding because they learn enough about the market and because they get a reputation for good products and good design. That is exactly what HTC (and LG) did. But they also can and do often continue their ODM and CM businesses.
    You are absolutely correct in your analogy too. I believe that since this is coming from a company that does make it's own respected phones, that if this phone was of their design you'd probably see an HTC branded unit as you see with all the different names carriers use on Samsung branded phones.

    My remark about them paying Palm was meant that if this was an HTC phone that is just using the Palm name, they would be paying the royalties, but what you're saying is that Palm is contracting with them to make an HTC phone (note hypothetically an HTC phone) for them. I believe it's a Palm phone made by HTC for Palm. That's the difference I'm considering. I just wanted to bring to light that this is a phone for Palm, and probably by Palm, so this debate of how bad or good it is can't be blamed on HTC alone. Either way, I think both our annalogies are correct. You are right that some companies have items that are identical to the ones they are already making such as Kenmore being nothing but a branded Whirlpool, or whatever.
    Kyocera 6035 > Kyocera 7135 > Treo 600 > Treo 650. All Verizon. Sprint Treo 755p, HTC Mogul & Centro
    Unlocked Treo 680 for trips outside Sprint's areas
  18. #78  
    Rick I understand where you are coming from, here is my take from reading up a bit, and if anyone klnows more or would like to correct chime in (probably Malatesta has the best sense of what has leaked or been supposed on the actual manufacture chain):

    Treo 800w: Palm designed and contracted to an ODM or CM
    Treo Pro: HTC designed with HTC as the ODM for Palm

    In short the 800w is more of a Palm designed Palm branded phone, and the TReo Pro is more of a HTC designed and engineered Palm branded Phone

    There is also an additional complication in that although a third company, Qualcomm, is in some ways a parts supplier, but unlike most parts suppliers, they hold an effective monopoly on the central CDMA chip.

    A lot of what we are talking about with Palms participation is branding, and marketing of the brand. They have been dropping out OS software and slowly dropping out of engineering. But Brand is still the core of who is the "maker" form the point of view of the market and consumer. Among other things, brand conveys trust and backing a product up.
  19. #79  
    FWIW, when you open a Treo Pro box, a little card is on top which reads:

    "Inspired by and Designed in California"

    (that's something Apple does/says, btw)

    When the Treo 500 was released, the FCC docs were co-filed with Asus and it is listed under Asus since they are the ODM. That truly is a case of Palm re-branding another's design.

    That doesn't feel completely like the case with the Pro and I think Palm has a bigger role here than the Treo 500. My thinking is Palm's engineers/designers worked with HTC's rather than Palm just re-branding some hitherto unknown HTC device.

    But honestly, no one except Palm and HTC know at this point.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  20. #80  
    It is certainly always a question of degree. I do feel however that the HTC probably had more to do with the Treo Pro than whoever the ODM or CM for the 800w did for the 800w.
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