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  1. #21  
    First you say:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Maybe you have hands that are made of steel, but I do not.

    Then you say:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    I never said I had shaky hands. I don't.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    Mal has a hard-on for Palm. Knowing HTC had their hands in this he must bash it. If Palm made it he would be on his knees.

    The Pro is a better device in a few simple ways. Throw looks out since that is personal taste. It has the audio jack we all wish the 800 had. We can't charge our phones while using the headset. Today I listened to music until the battery was almost dead. Regardless of the BT workaround the 800 should have had the jack. Next in line is GPS that can actually work on its own. Not going further on this, done to death. I do like the flush screen. I am always pulling crap out of my screens corners all the time. Who can forget about battery life. HTC must have laughed at Palm for putting a 1150mAH battery in the 800. HTC showed Palm how to do it and put a 1500mAH in the Pro which was a fantastic move.

    With the Pro you lose soft keys and the standard Treo keyboard we all love. I would trade both of these for the Pro battery life. I can adapt to any keyboard. It has never been a deal breaker for me.

    So I would trade my 800 for the Pro in a heartbeat. My contract is up December 1st and have the rebate and leverage. I might reup for the Pro.
    VibrantRedGT, did I ever mention that you're still my friend ?
  3. #23  
    I got your back.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I make no claims of being perfect. Malatesta, I know you desire to play up the 800w as much as possible, but bottom line is, neither the facts or the masses are with you.
    Look, Darnell this has nothing to do with me liking the existing 800w over the theoretical Sprint Treo Pro.

    All my post did was correct your factual errors or question your logic for them.

    You have to be called out when you state such obvious inaccuracies. I mean you said it the 800w didn't have TFT or Live Messenger (both completely wrong), compared two completely different processors that have different performances (we don't even know what the 850e will have yet), argued that somehow 8x optical zoom is some how better than 2x when they are both terrible (by your admission) and neglected to mention how the Pro's camera is not exactly "all that".

    I mean, you just spout wrong things all the time. Here's your latest from your last post:
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    The Treo Pro has a single "Airplane Mode" option, not on the 800w.
    Do you even use your 800w? I mean before you state some things, why not actually learn what you are talking about (like TFT).

    Here: Menu --> Wireless Manager; See where it says "All"? Click it. It turns off...wait for it...ALL radios. This is basic stuff man...



    I'm not arguing that the Treo Pro will be worse than an 800w or that it won't be a great device I am just correcting your repetitive mistakes on this forum. I plan on getting a Treo Pro like everyone else and I'm excited (as evident on this weekend's podcast).

    But just specs alone do not make a device a great device and just doing a spec comparison does not guarantee anything (see your Epix vs. Treo Pro point).

    Ease back the personal stuff and double check your posts for factual errors.
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    Mal has a hard-on for Palm. Knowing HTC had their hands in this he must bash it. If Palm made it he would be on his knees.
    Personal ad hominem attacks are not called for especially since I have not engaged in any name calling. And watch the language.

    You also did not refute anything I posted in this thread.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 11/04/2008 at 09:27 PM.

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  5. #25  
    I hardly call that a attack. More like a general statement. Just going by what you say about the Pro in every thread. It's always negative and I believe HTC brings it out.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  6.    #26  
    btw, I failed to mention that the Sprint Rep I talked to earlier today, I verified with her about the model of the phone asking her if she was confusing the Treo Pro with the Touch Pro. She stated "no sir. The Treo Pro" . However, I wish I would have asked for a model number. . .oh well. I know for a fact that once they release the Treo Pro for Sprint we will be getting them. Aye, I see more than a few advantages of having a Treo Pro and truly hope it turns out to be better than the 800w that we have come to really enjoy and has made our lives here much more efficient, to say the least. IMHO, the Treo 800w alone is one remarkable and impressive phone, bugs and issues aside. If the Treo Pro is supposed to be better, guess I am going to have to be ready to be "wowed" more than I was with the 800w. I will however truly miss the layout of the keyboard but if it is truly that much better, then I will deal with it.
  7. #27  
    Well, for me the keyboard trumps all. Battery life isn't an issue, as I simply use a second battery (theoretically, anyway - I only use up my battery when I get video-happy). GPS works fine for me. I use a BT headset, and have never once used a wired headset.

    So, for me, the 800w is terrific, and I personally don't have any impetus to change. YMMV, of course.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Look, Darnell this has nothing to do with me liking the existing 800w over the theoretical Sprint Treo Pro.
    No comment, but I'll just give my friend VibrantRedGT another shout out!

    All my post did was correct your factual errors or question your logic for them.

    You have to be called out when you state such obvious inaccuracies. I mean you said it the 800w didn't have TFT or Live Messenger (both completely wrong), compared two completely different processors that have different performances (we don't even know what the 850e will have yet), argued that somehow 8x optical zoom is some how better than 2x when they are both terrible (by your admission) and neglected to mention how the Pro's camera is not exactly "all that".
    2 errors yes, but the rest was on point, despite how hard you have attempted to water it down.

    I mean, you just spout wrong things all the time.
    And how was I wrong that the Treo Pro has a:
    • Faster processor
    • Flush touch screen
    • Camera with superior zoom.
    • Superior battery
    • 3.5mm stereo headset jack
    • True Stand Alone GPS and aGPS
    • Palm and 3rd party vendors will put more overall energy into catering to the Treo Pro, because it will have a way larger base of users and it's newer.


    You're harping on a couple of things you've found to nit over, while the bulk of what I've noted is factual. That's not exactly "wrong things all the time". Including the superiority of the Treo Pro when it comes to management of wireless connections.

    Here's your latest from your last post:

    Do you even use your 800w? I mean before you state some things, why not actually learn what you are talking about (like TFT).

    Here: Menu --> Wireless Manager; See where it says "All"? Click it. It turns off...wait for it...ALL radios. This is basic stuff man...

    OK and the Treo Pro's is still superior. And the 800w connection manager looks like a 4th grader constructed it!


    I'm not arguing that the Treo Pro will be worse than an 800w or that it won't be a great device I am just correcting your repetitive mistakes on this forum.
    I was truly in error on 2 out of 10 points, I'm still batting 800, but you attempted to even belittle several solid points. Mal, this went way beyond you correcting if I've made an error a long, long time ago. Right around the time I noted how horrible Palm has been in dealing with the GPS issue, you (and Ebag333) suddenly found it necessary to find me often when I speak here.
    Last edited by darnell; 11/04/2008 at 09:49 PM. Reason: Removed the mention about personal attacks, since that was directed to VRGT.
  9. #29  
    I actually really like my Centro's keyboard, so the idea of making the keys more spacious makes it even better, imo. But I'm kind of in the minority with that one. Something about the soft, keys...they were were just easier on my thumbs.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  10. #30  
    I saw on the Palm comparison that the 800w (which I have) has stereo bluetooth but the Pro is not listed as having that. That is a big deal for me if so. I do not plan on EVER using wired headsets for a phone again. I have 2 motorola s9's and that is all I will ever use.
  11. #31  
    See, now you are trying to correct your wrong assertion (it doesn't even have Airplane mode) to mocking the way it looks. Hey, if that floats your boat fine.

    But don't just say "Device X doesn't have Y" and expect others to not correct you on it. Sorry to have to do it so tersely as I have but...shoot man, don't blame the messenger.
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    And how was I wrong that the Treo Pro has a:
    • Faster processor
    • Flush touch screen
    • Camera with superior zoom.
    • Superior battery
    • 3.5mm stereo headset jack
    • True Stand Alone GPS and aGPS
    • Palm and 3rd party vendors will put more overall energy into catering to the Treo Pro, because it will have a way larger base of users and it's newer.
    Well...since I didn't say you were wrong on those points, I'd call your assertion a straw man.

    Except for the camera. That IMO, is incorrect. The GSM Treo Pro's camera is not appreciably superior as far as image quality and lighting. Perhaps Sprint's version will? That is possible but we'll have to wait and see.

    I also have to stress: we do NOT know the specs on the Sprint Treo Pro. To assume that the CDMA version will be 100% the same in the specs department is premature.
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    And I've called you a name where?

    I have refuted your claims about camera zoom.
    Dude, that was written for Vibrant who out of no where (I was not talking to him) jumped in to criticize me without actually addressing my points.

    BTW...

    Obama FTW! lol
    Last edited by Malatesta; 11/04/2008 at 09:59 PM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by lawilson2 View Post
    I saw on the Palm comparison that the 800w (which I have) has stereo bluetooth but the Pro is not listed as having that. That is a big deal for me if so. I do not plan on EVER using wired headsets for a phone again. I have 2 motorola s9's and that is all I will ever use.
    I think the Treo Pro has the same BT, but I think Palm used different wording when describing the features. It is a bit misleading, which is how I was in error on the TFT screen and Messenger application.

    Palm should use uniform statements when describing product features.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I think the Treo Pro has the same BT, but I think Palm used different wording when describing the features. It is a bit misleading, which is how I was in error on the TFT screen and Messenger application.

    Palm should use uniform statements when describing product features.
    Okay, this I DO agree with

    Palm does not list uniform features...that is true.

    And yes, the Treo Pro can do Stereo BT.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    See, now you are trying to correct your wrong assertion (it doesn't even have Airplane mode) to mocking the way it looks. Hey, if that floats your boat fine.
    I added the "airplane mode" statement later, but my original point was that the Treo Pro connection manager is an improvement over the 800w.

    I said:
    HTC launcher for wireless connection management.
    And it's noted as a new feature in the Treo Pro review. Fact is, it's an improvement. That along with several other things noted as new in that review, which I could have cited as points, to have well more than 10. I mean the improved task manager is sweet! I just was showing there are good reasons some people will move to the Treo Pro. I was not 100% on every point, by my own admission I did miss 2, but the wireless manager is improved. I do find the design of the Treo Pro's to be superior.

    But don't just say "Device X doesn't have Y" and expect others to not correct you on it. Sorry to have to do it so tersely as I have but...shoot man, don't blame the messenger.
    Well I think you went a little further than that, which I'll talk about below. But yea I made some errors and I've admitted to them.

    Well...since I didn't say you were wrong on those points, I'd call your assertion a straw man.
    Oh but you did try and claim I needed "correction" on my mention about the processor. Please run some benchmark tests before you do that Treo Pro review. You'd be the first to actually do it and it would be interesting to see the results.

    Except for the camera. That IMO, is incorrect. The Treo Pro's camera is not superior as far as image quality and lighting.
    Well lets see what I said, that got you started up about cameras:
    Camera 2.0 megapixels with up to 8x digital zoom and video capture is better than 2.0 megapixels (1600x1200) with 2x digital zoom and video capture (although digital zoom is usually horrible, so this does not mean much)
    I clearly was speaking in the full scope of image quality and the device's ability to zoom. And I noted it's not the biggest of improvements to consider. So you're talking over top of my point, which includes zoom as a factor of consideration. While I have always made it clear from my initial statement about it, that digital zoom is not much,, it is improved in the Treo Pro.

    I also have to stress: we do NOT know the specs on the Sprint Treo Pro. To assume that the CDMA version will be 100% the same in the specs department is premature.
    Maybe you're trying to pass us hints based off something you know that is not yet public, but for now we've (well I've) got nothing else to work with other than the currently available Treo Pro. Everyone will adjust their statements accordingly when we know what the CDMA version has .

    Dude, that was written for Vibrant who out of no where (I was not talking to him) jumped in to criticize me without actually addressing my points.
    I've already removed my statements about that from my prior comment.
  15. tli415's Avatar
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    #35  
    I clearly was speaking in the full scope of image quality and the device's ability to zoom. And I noted it's not the biggest of improvements to consider. So you're talking over top of my point, which includes zoom as a factor of consideration. While I have always made it clear from my initial statement about it, that digital zoom is not much,, it is improved in the Treo Pro.
    Camera 2.0 megapixels with up to 8x digital zoom and video capture is better than 2.0 megapixels (1600x1200) with 2x digital zoom and video capture (although digital zoom is usually horrible, so this does not mean much)
    You are absolutely wrong here. 2.0 megapixels with 8x digital zoom is EXACTLY the same as 2.0 megapixels with 2x digital zoom. It makes zero difference in image quality.

    Digital zoom is not true zoom in the sense that you think of "zoom." All that happens in the digital zoom process is that the image is cropped and "zoomed" in. You can take a picture in your 800w and zoom in 8x in any photo viewer and get the same result as taking a picture on the Treo Pro and zooming in 8x.

    In comparing camera quality, digital zoom is irrelevant.

    http://cameras.about.com/od/camerati...icaldigitl.htm
    http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/key=digital+zoom
  16. #36  
    Awesome news! A Sprint store rep told me that a 800 P was coming out but when I asked him a few days later he was not sure exaclty which model it was. It's obviously the Treo Pro! Awesome!

    I just switched fro mthe 700P to the 800W. I just wanted to get used to the new OS. Now that I've used the 800W for a few days, the switch to the Pro will be easy!!!!

    I WANT THE PRO!!!!
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    I hardly call that a attack. More like a general statement. Just going by what you say about the Pro in every thread. It's always negative and I believe HTC brings it out.
    While it may or may not have been a personal attack your choice of words is not what I would consider family friendly, so next time refrain from using language like that.
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I actually really like my Centro's keyboard, so the idea of making the keys more spacious makes it even better, imo. But I'm kind of in the minority with that one. Something about the soft, keys...they were were just easier on my thumbs.
    I don't think you are in the minority. I think some others are making assumptions without having tried the keyboard. I have used the Pro's keyboard and it is better than the Centro's. I have very big hands and the using the pro's keyboard after a while was just as easy as using the 800W's.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I clearly was speaking in the full scope of image quality and the device's ability to zoom. And I noted it's not the biggest of improvements to consider. So you're talking over top of my point, which includes zoom as a factor of consideration. While I have always made it clear from my initial statement about it, that digital zoom is not much,, it is improved in the Treo Pro.
    Quote Originally Posted by tli415 View Post
    In comparing camera quality, digital zoom is irrelevant.
    Digital zoom adds value. Not the same value as optical zoom, but value nonetheless. That is why we see digital zoom on expensive cameras as well.

    TLI is is correct in that you wont get more image density at 8x digital, than a post shot crop from an original 2x, but there are other considerations:

    a) at 8x you don't need the step of post shot processing and editing (which is inconvenient on a camera), and

    b) depending on the methods used for focus, light balance, exposure, and zoom interpolation using the 8x can give you a significantly better picture the cropped because the device is likely to be properly exposing for the area you targeted instead of the area you wish to discard.

    c) TLI you are also forgetting that this is a video camera as well. are you going to process and crop the video on a camera phone before sending it via video mail? Some people may prefer to shoot a short video zoomed and send it as video mail or an email from their phone, rather than take it home or to the office, transfer it to a pc, crop it on a video editing program and then send it.

    So TLI, you are taking a stand on an important fallacy, but it is not at all correct to say digital zoom is irrelevant. It is highly relevant on a camera phone, where a person is very likely to be sending the picture or video, and may not wish to double or quadruple the the time needed to take a shot and then edit it, as opposed to take it and send it, it has relevance.

    Some implied that 8x was useless unless one had "arms of steel." What? That is a difficult assertion to support since 8x digital will give the same problems as 8x optical and plenty of people take shots at these levels of zoom with no tripod and no motion blur sourced to the camera end.

    What I see is Darnell giving a list of differences in response to multiple incorrect posts around here stating there are one or two differences. What people are missing is that there are many differences and many improvements. to focus on the single difference important to one person and attack Darnell is off the mark.

    If standalone GPS is unimportant to you, fine, but don't make judgments on behalf of others and say it is important to only a niche. If digital zoom, which does objectively give value is unimportant to you don't a say it does nothing.
    If better battery life in a smaller case is unimportant, ditto. Ditto with wired headphone jack adn all the other improvements and added features.
  20. #40  
    I had a Sprint card and my guys called Sprint and asked them about dumping (giving it to someone else) and using my 800w in place of the card. We are all on unlimited plans and they said OK, our planned allowed all the connections by the 800w as a modem. Maybe our plan is unique or I don't quite understand what you are saying. The latter is quite possible, old age and small brain.

    Thanks for your response, I figured there was a good reason. I wonder if Sprint isn't telling you the same as they told my guy because they don't want to lose 130 card lines. Lets see that could be about $100,000 a year in card fees. Wow'sers.



    Quote Originally Posted by elegantevent-ee View Post
    Well, we are using the 800's not only for its business applications but also because of its gps capabilities which we use to track our employees who are out in the field, also for its wifi capabilities which definetly comes in handy when there is not a strong cell single and there is a wifi available, and we also use it as a POS system when needed by accsessing our POS network from the phone and taking the info there, very convienent I must say. But, no, we are not using the 800w's in place of the cards. There are still some applications that require us to have to use the cards on our laptops while out in the field which make the cards a necessary evil. While the phone works wonderfully as a modum, thanks to the reg hack, we cant get the add on on our phone plan due to unlimited minutes, etc to just replace the cards, which we would gladly do because the phone works beautifully as a modem. We are hoping Sprint changes this or adds it on so we can just add it to our plan and be done with the cards. We are on month to month now with the cards with Sprint and we refuse to sign another contract because we believe that an option to use the Treo as a modem will eventually be added on, which frustrates Sprint because they keep throwing different deals at us to get us to re-sign and we wont budge.

    Btw, I am the only one who has tried the reg hack for phone as a modem and I loved it. Like alot of you out there, if they would let us buy the darn plan to add on to our current one, we would buy it!! However, i did the reg hack for test purposes only to see if it actually works and of course, it does. Because we already have the wireless cards and pay for them, no reason to use the hack, besides, if all started to use the hack and stopped using the cards and told Sprint we were not interested in continuing our contract, they would quickly find out why, I dare say, and we are hardworking and honest people, so we will wait for an add-on or something that better suits our needs.

    This being said, is the Treo Pro (Treo 850e) really that much better than what we already have other than the fact it can take a 32 gig card and has a REAL stylus? Regardless, being able to use a 32 gig card would be a great benefit to us. I can also confirm that indeed the Treo 800w DOES read the 16gb card, we are using them, even though Palm says the Treo 800w only supports up to 8gb.
    Clie>Treo 600p> Treo 650p>Treo 755p>Treo 800w>Palm Pre
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