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  1.    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by oVan View Post
    It is so ridiculous that tech support still tries to send the customer away with this kind of answers. You do not need QuickGPS to use the gps chipset, it will only help to get a quicker first lock. Once you have a lock, quickgps is not used during your entire trip. If you have no quickgps running, or using out-of-date satellite data, you will just need more time for the first lock.
    Maybe I didn't explain correctly, but the way I understood him is that without the QuickGPS the intial fix could take as long as a half an hour. He didn't imply to me that I would need an update at all once I got the initial fix. As far as the amount of time goes. He claimed that it could take over 15 mintues to get a fix if the data was out of date--he didn't say you needed data constantly or even periodically after the satellites were found--he was very clear the the cell towers were also not part of GPS equation, unlike the level 2 tech told me. As far as I am concerned anything more than a few minutes is not really acceptable. I mean who wants to wait 5-10 minutes while they try to figure out where they are....The way I see it is I will never be more than hours or maybe on rare occassions more than a day away from data service so the 5 seconds it takes to download the data for QuickGPS is easy and I will set mine to autodownload every few days.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  2. #62  
    The point is, even withouth QuickGPS it will not need 15 minutes to find a lock. If you are outside and after 5 minutes you still haven't got a lock, something is wrong.

    ps: The gps chipset keeps your last known location, so that the next time you use it, it will take that last position as a jumpstart to get a new fix. If you fully disable your TP (battery out) and then fly to the other side of the world, you will have to wait a while for that very first initial fix.
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  3.    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by oVan View Post
    The point is, even withouth QuickGPS it will not need 15 minutes to find a lock. If you are outside and after 5 minutes you still haven't got a lock, something is wrong.

    ps: The gps chipset keeps your last known location, so that the next time you use it, it will take that last position as a jumpstart to get a new fix. If you fully disable your TP (battery out) and then fly to the other side of the world, you will have to wait a while for that very first initial fix.
    Good to know--the tech made it sound like it might never find the satellites in some cases. Nice to know that know matter what as long as I have unobstucted views of the sky that my GPS will always work.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    Good to know--the tech made it sound like it might never find the satellites in some cases. Nice to know that know matter what as long as I have unobstucted views of the sky that my GPS will always work.
    I have done an extra test this afternoon: I've stopped the QuickGPS service (in addition to stopping the app), and I got a fix within 1 minute and the whole trip went smoothly.
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  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by oVan View Post
    I have done an extra test this afternoon: I've stopped the QuickGPS service (in addition to stopping the app), and I got a fix within 1 minute and the whole trip went smoothly.
    How about stopping the service till the data already downloaded expires.. that would be real test to confirm the tech guy was wrong in this regard.
    Cingular Treo 750||ATT WM6 ROM||AT&T Blue SIM||1GB SanDisk Card||
  6.    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by prabhg View Post
    How about stopping the service till the data already downloaded expires.. that would be real test to confirm the tech guy was wrong in this regard.
    Actually, since I doubt it would expire at exactly 7 days you would really have to let it go a few days past that and then see how it does. And I guess then if you travled a great distance and turned it on again it should be even longer to acquire, if it did at all.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    Actually, since I doubt it would expire at exactly 7 days you would really have to let it go a few days past that and then see how it does. And I guess then if you travled a great distance and turned it on again it should be even longer to acquire, if it did at all.
    hmmm... any volunteer to do this test????
    Cingular Treo 750||ATT WM6 ROM||AT&T Blue SIM||1GB SanDisk Card||
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by prabhg View Post
    hmmm... any volunteer to do this test????
    Ok, I've done the following test, which should convince everyone:

    1) With QuickGPS service disabled, I drove around this morning. Everything fine.
    2) I started the QuickGPS app, and it showed data expired on nov-5 (two days ago, which is correct since I disabled the service).
    3) I quitted the QuickGPS app
    4) I deleted the ephemeris data file that QuickGPS creates
    5) I started QuickGPS app again, and indeed it shows "data not yet downloaded".
    6) Started Navigon 7, added two addresses, route calculation, start navigation... within 20 seconds I had 8 satellites in view.

    This confirms my earlier messages:
    1) The gps chip is completely independent and working by itself
    2) You do not need QuickGPS, although it might speed up your first fix time
    3) The gps chip remembers the last position and thus performs the same trick as QuickGPS upon warm boot. That's why you get a fast fix after you've used a gps application.

    I hope this helps everyone.
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  9. #69  
    talking about the GPS, does anybody know a free GPS program that displays the coordinates you are on and allows you to enter waypoints and navigate to them (as the crow flies, not as in tomtom).
    A mapping feature would be nice but not a showstopper..

    Basically can you use your TP for geocaching?
    (www.geocaching.com)
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  10.    #70  
    Received replacement unite today. Everything is working great now. What a relief. Learned a ton about GPS in the process.

    Just noticed that with GPS active in Google Maps it creates an arrow to show the direction you are traveling.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by cglaguna View Post
    This is interesting because I tried using TeleNav today and it said "invalid user id". Turns out I tried calling TeleNav to set it up in the beginnning and they had no idea what a Treo Pro was... they told me to call ATT, I called ATT and they said they had ATT Nav, which they said they set up. My TeleNav started working. Today when it stopped working, I called TeleNav and they said the CS rep I talked to didn't know what he was talking about, and it should be done on the phone or online. Anyway My telenav is no longer working.
    the exact same runaround happened to me when I accitentally deleted telenav. I now use TomTom for the occations when I need it. I still plan to use a standalone GPS but in a pinch or at work, TT is more than good enough and i don't have to switch out my memory card, ala garmin xt, to use it.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by oVan View Post
    Ok, I've done the following test, which should convince everyone:

    1) With QuickGPS service disabled, I drove around this morning. Everything fine.
    :
    oVan,
    Mental blank here. How do you disable QuickGPS?
    Thanks, Gary
  13. amg212's Avatar
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    #73  
    GPS worked fine on my TP while it was in flight mode last week - was actually on a flight (gotta love watching TomTom try to figure out what road you're on when you're flying over at 500mph!!)

    Seems that aGPS isn't the issue as there was no cell tower involved.
  14.    #74  
    I think we can all agree that aGPS clearly works without cell towers and network help. The occasional download of data probably speeds up acquisition but you don't need it. All my problems were related to a bad GPS unit in my original TP.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    I think we can all agree that aGPS clearly works without cell towers and network help. The occasional download of data probably speeds up acquisition but you don't need it. All my problems were related to a bad GPS unit in my original TP.
    yes and know... aGPS does work, but only in standard GPS mode..
    The advanced mode in aGPS helps the standard mode find the sats quicker.. after that the standard GPS is more accurate than the cell info location..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  16. #76  
    Jus o t clear up a few items:
    aGPS: a variety of different methods of using both tower and satellite, anything from sending network time, or more than that, ephemeridal data, (to make TTFF or time to first fix faster), to full out position calculation on the service provider's computers instead of your unit's processor (helpful in devices with with inadequate processing power), and many other methods in between.
    Standalone GPS: no tower use, not network connection or dependency at all. Just your local device (gps "PND" or smartphone) and the satellites.

    On the TTFF information you are getting from tech support: Tech support for any GPS will tell you up to 15 mintues. it actually could be quite a bit longer the first time in some circumstances with the best gps units. but in reality from zero or old ephemeris (usually called cold start) 5 minutes is on the long side and two to three minutes with good gps conditions is more the average. warm start (valid current ephemerals) typically would be be between 10 seconds to one minute.

    I tested a treo pro, touch pro and 800w. On position maintenance data they have the exact same accuracy as my standard PNDs (personal navigation devices such as nuvi or tomtom). If you use Google maps, which has no movement compensation built in they all appear to lag especially at speed but this is predicable. most in car devices use hardware accelerometers and most PND software has algorithms that compensate and move your indicated position forward of your reported position. In terms of side to side position, you will see a variety of results depending on software, which may lead you to surmise different accuracies. But that isn;t about accuracy so much as the fact most street map based software will "snap" you to a street closest to GPS reported position

    TTFF on standalone the TR Pro and HTC pro is essentially identical. This can't be tested on the 800w because standalone is broken.

    As far as standalone vs aGPS add accuracy it is that one is more accurate because it depends on the one of many aGPS methods being used. aGPS can be just as accurate, or in some case of bad sat reception more accurate, and in some cases less accurate.
  17. jwebb56's Avatar
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    #77  
    ToolkiT: Check out Navio and see if it does what you want done.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMul View Post
    oVan,
    Mental blank here. How do you disable QuickGPS?
    Thanks, Gary
    You can either set it to not download again, or you can disable the QuickGPS service with an advanced task manager. In both cases you need to remove the data file that was already downloaded.
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  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by oVan View Post
    You can either set it to not download again, or you can disable the QuickGPS service with an advanced task manager. In both cases you need to remove the data file that was already downloaded.
    Thank you. I'll sort it out.

    Gary
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwebb56 View Post
    ToolkiT: Check out Navio and see if it does what you want done.
    That looks promising indeed!
    And it is even from a dutch company
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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