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  1.    #41  
    levinda,

    If you shut off your phone and radio then how could google maps work? I thought it needs a constant data connection to update map as you move. Even the slightest map re-draw would require some data. I am not trying to sound argumentative but are you sure that Google maps doesn't just remember your last location when you start it up?

    I am just trying to figure this out because neither Palm nor AT&T seem able or willing to help and I can't so much as get one satellite located by Google Maps or GPSToday.

    I am getting sick of Palm's support with limited knowledge and even less ability to help. I can tell you this much if I had an AT&T device I could take it right down to a corporate owned store and swap it out for another but I can't even get Palm to acknowledge there is a problem here and I have had tons of you trying to help
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  2. #42  
    I have not had my Treo for 30 days yet, but my GPS works great. I did find that when I turn the phone radio off, GPS also turns off. I think Dsol is having an issue with com ports or software configuration. The Treo Pro is not carrier dependant in any way and Palm made no mention of requiring the purchase of telenav to maintain GPS functionality. They did say this on the website though:

    SPECIFICATIONS



    GPS: Built-in GPS


    1 Within wireless coverage area only. Wi-Fi within range of 802.11b/g Wi-Fi network. Some Wi-Fi hotspots require fee for usage. Email, web, and GPS require an account and data services at additional cost. GPS application not available from all carriers. Third-party software may be required. GPS coverage not available in all areas at all times.
  3. #43  
    I hear your frustration, but please for our sake, so we can definitly say without a doubt that you have a defective unit, you need to take a moment and make sure you have all your settings correct.

    So first, Hard Reset, don't do any sprite restore, don't install anything, before you do anything else, Go To:
    Start Menu -> Settings -> System - External GPS.
    at the 'GPS program port' Choose 'COM4'
    Hardware: None
    Baud rate: 4800
    Access: put a Check in "Manage GPS automatically"
    Soft Reset.
    Now go to 'Start Menu -> Programs -> QuickGPS and hit 'Download' Now Open Google Maps -> Menu -> Options -> GPS Settings and make sure 'Managed by Windows' is selected.
    Choose 'ok' to return to Google Maps, click 'Menu' -> Use Gps.
    Do this outside with a clear view of the sky.
    It sometimes takes awhile the first few time, but the after that it works rather quickly.
  4.    #44  
    Performing the hard reset now and will follow your instruction to the "T".

    Perhaps I have missed something in the process so I will be deliberate and report back shortly.

    Again, thanks to all of you for your help on this one.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  5.    #45  
    Berd--

    Followed your instructions precisely. For what it is worth all of the default settings were as you suggested in your post above.

    Downloaded quick GPS with no issue and then went outside and started Google Maps. Selected use GPS and I got the message on the top right that "seeking GPSsatellites and the counter in parenthesis stayed on 0. Evntually the counter went away but it never really got closer than about 1/8 of a mile to my house. Oddly, it moved dramatically by about a quarter of a mile a few blocks away and then shifted back to the same wrong location once. If I had to guess it was getting my location off the old "cell tower method" and not using GPS at all.

    Evntually after about 4 minutes or so I got a message that popped up saying that my GPS receiver is having trouble tracking GPS Satellites....that it requires a clear view of the sky....make sure it is configured correctly and then I can hit the "retry" or "cancel" buttons on the bottom of the screen. i have the feeling the OS is communicating with the GPS receiver but for some reason the receiver can't connect with the satellites because I don't get a message like "can't find receiver" or "intializing GPS"

    Clearly, we have determined it is not working. Also, remember I had no issues for the first month or so I had this device as it literally worked right out of the box. Also GPSToday worked as well. Now neither work.

    Lastly, earlier tonight--before this last hard reset I tried using the SIM from my wife's iphone and I had the same problem--so that tells me it is not SIM related nor is it phone related.

    This leaves me with 2 possible scenarios--either 1--my Pro is defective, which again is really hard to belive given that it worked fine for a month, or 2 something is preventing signal acquisition and maybe it will start working again--however this seems equally unlikely.

    Suggestions??? If it is defective I have no idea how to speak to someone at Palm that will authorize a return. They refuse to acknowledge a problem and I am really sick of misinformed tech support in the Phillipines with bad connections and long delays between the time I speak and the time they hear me.

    Thanks again.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  6. #46  
    Wow!

    I'm truly stumped!

    One more test you may want to try. Get another phone that has GPS, put your sim in it, if you get location, then your Pro may very well be defective.

    Another option that is kinda mean to Palm, is order another pro, if it works, you have proof that your present one is defective. And then call them and tell them that you would really like to keep the one that works and would like to send the one that doesn't back for a full refund.
    If they say no, say, 'well I have to send one back, and I'd really be grateful if you (palm) would take the one back that doesn't work.
    either way, just send the new Pro back before 30 days.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    levinda,

    If you shut off your phone and radio then how could google maps work? I thought it needs a constant data connection to update map as you move. Even the slightest map re-draw would require some data. I am not trying to sound argumentative but are you sure that Google maps doesn't just remember your last location when you start it up?

    I am just trying to figure this out because neither Palm nor AT&T seem able or willing to help and I can't so much as get one satellite located by Google Maps or GPSToday.

    I am getting sick of Palm's support with limited knowledge and even less ability to help. I can tell you this much if I had an AT&T device I could take it right down to a corporate owned store and swap it out for another but I can't even get Palm to acknowledge there is a problem here and I have had tons of you trying to help
    Google maps can work with a wi-fi connection rather than cell. Of course that means it could theoretically use wi-fi for positioning rather than GPS, so we will leave that point aside...

    However, Garmin XT does not use wi-fi or cell signals. It only uses old fashioned conventional GPS and it works with ALL radios off.
    Daniel Levin
    levinda13@sbcglobal.net
  8. CDG
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    .......
    Suggestions??? If it is defective I have no idea how to speak to someone at Palm that will authorize a return. They refuse to acknowledge a problem and I am really sick of misinformed tech support in the Phillipines with bad connections and long delays between the time I speak and the time they hear me.

    Thanks again.
    How about subscribing to TeleNav for a month and then when your GPS still does not find sattelites Palm will be convinced and agree to send you a replacement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    ........If you shut off your phone and radio then how could google maps work? I thought it needs a constant data connection to update map as you move. Even the slightest map re-draw would require some data. I am not trying to sound argumentative but are you sure that Google maps doesn't just remember your last location when you start it up?.
    I put my TP in Aeroplane Mode this morning and brought up Google Maps, it said it cannot work without data connection but brought up the last map I had looked at but no "my location" ofcourse. I then enabled GPS and it found 8 sattelites in under a min. I forgot to check if the map was following my route. I need to do that at lunch time.

    So my thinking is although Google Maps does not update or show my location w/o data connection, it does work with GPS in that mode.
    Last edited by charlyee; 11/05/2008 at 08:42 AM.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by charlyee View Post
    How about subscribing to TeleNav for a month and then when your GPS still does not find sattelites Palm will be convinced and agree to send you a replacement...
    I 2nd this idea!!!

    I am disappointed to hear Palm Tech missing the mark here!

    Good Luck!!!

    -D
  10.    #50  
    What happens if I order TeleNav and then it does work? Then would present an entire new set of issues, but I guess I won't know unless I try it.

    I think I might keep trying to use GPS for a while first as this is clearly not a "must have" feature for me but more of a major let down when something as advertised as having a feature and then it doesn't actually work.

    I am also thinking about calling Palm at their headquarters directly and trying to get through to someone there. I can try this route the next time I am sitting in traffice for an hour.

    Thanks again all--other ideas are still requested and welcome.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  11. sansnil's Avatar
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    #51  
    Dsol, I think you really need to get your Pro replaced with a non-defective unit. If you've gone a few rounds with Palm and they still won't replace your unit or let you return it for a refund I would take it up with your credit card company. Based on what you've described it seems very clear the phone is not functioning as it should. I would give Palm a chance to make it right and they probably will especially if you're still in your 30 day period. Hopefully they'll get it and send you a new replacement or else I would reorder from Amazon who stands behind their refund/return policy.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by sansnil View Post
    ...clip...
    If you've gone a few rounds with Palm and they still won't replace your unit or let you return it for a refund I would take it up with your credit card company. Based on what you've described it seems very clear the phone is not functioning as it should. I would give Palm a chance to make it right and they probably will especially if you're still in your 30 day period.
    ...clip...
    I think he's past his 30 days, his telnav trial expired.

    If I was him, and I knew without a doubt that my unit was defective, and palm refuses to replace it, then yes, I would take it up with my credit card company.
  13. #53  
    The only concern I have with him subscribing to telanav or some other GPS service provider is palm may say to take his issue up with his GPS service provider.

    However, I don't think it's a bad idea, if nothing else but to reaffirm that his unit is absolutely defective.
    Any of the suggestions would work.

    But remember, palm says he needs to take it up with his carrier. So now if he could get a hold of another phone that has GPS capabilities, and puts his sim in it, and GPS works, he could then say; 'no palm, the issue is not with my carrier.'
    If they still refuse then just say 'I will be taking it up with my credit card company'.
  14. #54  
    Just thought I would jump in here...its got to be defective as I took my sim card out completely and I can still get a signal and use TomTom 6 without any issues....so I am going with the fact that is defective because its definately not locked to a carrier...and I uninstalled Telenav over a month ago...
  15.    #55  
    So this morning on my way into the office I called the Palm headquarters main number in Sunnyvale 408.617.700.--spoke to an operator who transferred me to Corporate customer service, which incidentally I found out was in the Orlando FL area.

    This was a huge break, the tech was a US based woman who was extremely friendly and in short told me a Level 3 Tech would call me back at a convenient time because while she put me on hold she said he felt there might be a couple of more things to try. I asked him to call me at 10am and wouldn't you know it that at 10 on the nose my phone rang. Here is what I learned and/or got confirmed from him:

    TP GPS will absolutely work on its own without cellular service, you don't need TeleNave or any other subscription servce, etc.,--however there are some very important caveats. First, because this is an unlocked world phone and not integrated with a carrier it is very important to keep the QuickGPS data updated. I believe he stated that if it were a carrier supported phone this might happen automatically but on this device it won't. He said the further out of date the GPS data gets the harder it will be for the GPS to find the satellites and that eventually at about a week or so it might not even find the satellites. (no big deal really because this takes a second and can also be set to update automatically).

    I asked him if the GPS would work in a remote area with no cell service. He said that it will for a while but eventually when the QuickGPS data gets old it would probably stop finding the satellites--but again he did absolutely confirm that cell service is not necessary.

    For those that care he said a traditional handheld GPS (Garmin Nuvi, etc.)unit actually locks onto a satellite and then downloads some more data on a frequency reagarding satellite locations. The TP does not have the ability to access this frequency, thus it needs to keep updating via QuickGPS, as the satellites continually move and the data needs to stay current.

    As for the settings Berd and the rest of you are correct and they should be as suggested above--which are the defaults anyway. The main thing he stressed is to let Windows manage the GPS for all software.

    As for Google Maps he did say that without some sort of data connection (cell or WiFi) it won't work because the maps won't be able to update.

    Garmin XT will work without data but requires all the maps on your sd card.

    Lastly, because he (and the rest of you) confirmed this is a device issue they are sending me a new one via overnight service and then I send my current one back so they can test and see if they can identify the issue. This is all free by the way, although I had to give a credit card number in case I don't ever sent mine in. I am going to receive a brand new fully boxed unit--not refurb.

    He claims this the first he has heard of this issue but claims it could be an assembly issue--he was quick to defend the design.

    A few other tidbits, I asked him if there were plans for AT&T to carry--he claimed to have no idea and suggested that people pressure the carrier. I asked about the bluetooth issue and he was also very guarded. He did sort of acknwoledge to hearing of some issue but not knowing much about it. I asked when we could expect a patch and he said he had no idea if and when there would be a patch but suggested I just check their website. (something tells me that they are very well trained to not acknowledge an issue until they have a fix for it.)

    I asked about the design of the keyboard and why there was so much space between the keys and the edge and he claimed there was tons of desing input on this device--more than any other and that the space was to allow room for cases that often hit the keys and cause battery drain and unintentional key presses.

    This guy restored my faith in Palm but it is still unaccpetable that it took this much effort.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    ... TP GPS will absolutely work on its own without cellular service, you don't need TeleNave or any other subscription servce, etc.,--however there are some very important caveats. First, because this is an unlocked world phone and not integrated with a carrier it is very important to keep the QuickGPS data updated. I believe he stated that if it were a carrier supported phone this might happen automatically but on this device it won't. He said the further out of date the GPS data gets the harder it will be for the GPS to find the satellites and that eventually at about a week or so it might not even find the satellites. (no big deal really because this takes a second and can also be set to update automatically).

    I asked him if the GPS would work in a remote area with no cell service. He said that it will for a while but eventually when the QuickGPS data gets old it would probably stop finding the satellites--but again he did absolutely confirm that cell service is not necessary.
    It is so ridiculous that tech support still tries to send the customer away with this kind of answers. You do not need QuickGPS to use the gps chipset, it will only help to get a quicker first lock. Once you have a lock, quickgps is not used during your entire trip. If you have no quickgps running, or using out-of-date satellite data, you will just need more time for the first lock.
    Click here for more Treo Pro Tricks
  17. CDG
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    Lastly, because he (and the rest of you) confirmed this is a device issue they are sending me a new one via overnight service and then I send my current one back so they can test and see if they can identify the issue. This is all free by the way, although I had to give a credit card number in case I don't ever sent mine in. I am going to receive a brand new fully boxed unit--not refurb.
    Success finally. It is about time. We were all getting frustrated along with you, I know I was, although I do admit I learnt a lot about the GPS in the TP due to this thread.

    Looking forward to hearing how the new one performs.
  18. #58  
    Just a heads up.
    I believe if you take a look at the "GPS Settings" thread, coppertop and I both had difficulty getting GPS working at first because our phones mysteriously from the factory were not set to COM4 in GPS settings, but were set to 'None' (That was with my first device that had an unrelated issue.)
    The second Pro Palm sent me had the settings correct by default.

    It's so sad you had to go thru so much resistance from Palm.
    I think some think they are doing their company a favor by looking out for the company (claim no fault) rather than the customer.
    But I'm finding more and more companies are getting this way.

    To some extent they may have a little bit of an excuse, in that lots of people are also trying to take advantage of the company, blaming every issue on the company and trying to get something for free.
    Just call me Berd.
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    For those that care he said a traditional handheld GPS (Garmin Nuvi, etc.)unit actually locks onto a satellite and then downloads some more data on a frequency reagarding satellite locations. The TP does not have the ability to access this frequency, thus it needs to keep updating via QuickGPS, as the satellites continually move and the data needs to stay current.
    Garmin, Nuvi, TomTom etc can't access that frequency either - because there is no such thing. The 'traditional GPS' doesn't have a radio, and can't 'download some more data' or anything else.

    You can use QuickGPS when your satnav is docked with a PC with an internet connection but that goes out of date after 7 days. I have never bothered to use QuickGPS with my TomTom, as I use it fairly infrequently and, when I do, it finds the satellites quick enough without that data.
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    A few other tidbits, I asked him if there were plans for AT&T to carry--he claimed to have no idea and suggested that people pressure the carrier. I asked about the bluetooth issue and he was also very guarded. He did sort of acknwoledge to hearing of some issue but not knowing much about it. I asked when we could expect a patch and he said he had no idea if and when there would be a patch but suggested I just check their website. (something tells me that they are very well trained to not acknowledge an issue until they have a fix for it.)
    Good to hear you made some progress, Dsol, and nice to see Palm step up if a little late it's certainly better than never. I think you're correct about the never acknowledge a fault policy too as I had a few exchanges on the Palm support site with a rep about the 4 open/reproducible bugs I've identified on my Pro and asked if there was an official known issue list so I wouldn't be reporting redundant errors. He said there is no public list but if you post your bugs there they will be communicated back to engineering and fixed based on the estimated number of users it will impact. Not the best answer IMHO but I think most companies probably follow a similar tact.
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