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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post
    AVI is dead except for illegally-distributed content on torrent networks
    -- Charles Wiltgen
    you'd better tell these guys then
    http://www.greencine.com/static/divx...ed_divxdrm.jsp
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by RichChestmat View Post
    Please stop inferring that users and potential customers are sharing illegal files because they ask for a common video format.
    Whoa, that wasn't the intent. Apologies to anyone who took offense. I thought the primary remaining use of AVI files was common knowledge, but (of course!) there are exceptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dieter Bohn View Post
    Well, I don't think that "mostly pirates use it" is a good reason to not support a given file format.
    True. The problem is that they use it almost exclusively for content at SD (standard-definition) and HD frame sizes and frame rates, which means that they don't have a peanut's chance in an elephant herd of playing on battery-powered devices with no video acceleration.

    Here's a reasonable summary that I posted a few months ago in our forum:

    The most important reasons we we don't support AVI are: (1) There's no mobile-friendly content in that format, and (2) it was always a poorly-defined format with many undocumented mutations that make it a mess to implement and support (we know because our founders did it for QuickTime). If there's a hidden cache of mobile-friendly AVI content I'd like to hear about it, but I'm^H^H^H I have a friend that's pretty familiar with what's available on various P2P networks.

    The irony is that the very few people who would find this feature useful are very knowledgable geeks, typically already have one or more favorite ffmpeg front-ends, and probably wouldn't be intimidated by the prospect of transcoding their media for optimal playback in Kinoma Play.
    So, this isn't an anti-AVI decision. It's a we're-working-on-other-stuff-that's-1,000-times-cooler decision.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  3. #63  
    It's funny because AVIs seem to play perfectly fine on all of my devices using CorePlayer or TCPMP. Does that make me the peanut or the elephant herd? I'm confused.
  4. #64  
    Charles, you'd have done much better to simply say you don't support AVI yet and left it at that.

    While I greatly support your product, your statements about AVI are simply less than respectful and many of us can't affirm your view of AVI to be true.
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    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Charles, you'd have done much better to simply say you don't support AVI yet and left it at that.

    While I greatly support your product, your statements about AVI are simply less than respectful and many of us can't affirm your view of AVI to be true.
    Charles is in a no win situation. If he just says that Kinoma doesn't support AVI, he'll get cranky responses questioning why not. If he attempts to give an explanation, he gets sarcastic, snarky comments from the usual suspects.

    I'm not aware of any other vendor who is as active in searching these boards in an effort to field and respond to product support questions.
  6. #66  
    So can someone answer me please? I was asking what format are DivX videos currently in. Because DivX isn't dead, they are still updating their players and codecs. If it's AVI, then AVI is still a live format. I don't know if people are using AVI for "illegal" files or not, and really don't care to tell you the truth, because I'm truly sick of DRM. All I know is that DivX files are still being used and I'd support the option to play them on my devices.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    So can someone answer me please? I was asking what format are DivX videos currently in. Because DivX isn't dead, they are still updating their players and codecs. If it's AVI, then AVI is still a live format. I don't know if people are using AVI for "illegal" files or not, and really don't care to tell you the truth, because I'm truly sick of DRM. All I know is that DivX files are still being used and I'd support the option to play them on my devices.
    DivX is very often used to create .AVI files. See the Wiki DivX entry.

    Saying AVI is for illegal things or outdated is like saying MP3 is old and for illegal music files. Or saying crowbars are only used by criminals. Those are blanket statements, that really ignore the many legitimate uses.

    If a software maker does not support format, they only dig a deeper hole for themselves if they try to talk down about a format that is widely used. Saying anything more than they don't support the format is not going to help their case one bit.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    DivX is very often used to create .AVI files. See the Wiki DivX entry.

    Saying AVI is for illegal things or outdated is like saying MP3 is old and for illegal music files. Or saying crowbars are only used by criminals. Those are blanket statements, that really ignore the many legitimate uses.

    If a software maker does not support format, they only dig a deeper hole for themselves if they try to talk down about a format that is widely used. Saying anything more than they don't support the format is not going to help their case one bit.
    Quoted for truth.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Saying AVI is for illegal things or outdated is like saying MP3 is old and for illegal music files.
    AVI isn't just outdated, it's dead (in the same way that Latin is a dead language). It was last updated more than a decade ago, and doesn't support now-basic video concepts like b-frames and pixel aspect ratios except via hacks of varying compatibility.

    I can appreciate that AVI still has legitimate uses, but I can't find any. The last mainstream use of AVI for distributing content was DivX's Stage6 video sharing site, but DivX themselves shut that down early this year. (ToolkiT: Many thanks for pointing out GreenCine, but those are encrypted with DivX's proprietary DRM.)

    For anybody passionate about the AVI file format, any other examples I'm missing?

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post
    AVI isn't just outdated, it's dead (in the same way that Latin is a dead language). It was last updated more than a decade ago, and doesn't support now-basic video concepts like b-frames and pixel aspect ratios except via hacks of varying compatibility.

    I can appreciate that AVI still has legitimate uses, but I can't find any. The last mainstream use of AVI for distributing content was DivX's Stage6 video sharing site, but DivX themselves shut that down early this year. (ToolkiT: Many thanks for pointing out GreenCine, but those are encrypted with DivX's proprietary DRM.)

    For anybody passionate about the AVI file format, any other examples I'm missing?

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Charles, do you feel DivX and xvid are dead? Do you feel there are not people encoding their own personal videos using those codecs, even to AVI? Kinoma does not even support the .divx extension and there are sites formatting video for download in .divx format.

    Really, you're missing something that your competitors are happy you're not seeing.
  11. #71  
    Interesting if true. Core does play DivX and Xvid. And those 2 are definitely NOT dead. DivX videos are all over the internet.

    Looks like nsxprime has made my paid player decision easier. Although I haven't bought anything yet.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #72  
    How old is .mp3? I'm surprised that Kinoma supports it because it's clearly just used by pirates on file-sharing sites.

    I'm sorry, but it sure sounds like Kinoma doesn't know how to support AVI. Is there any reason not to? It's free and people obviously still use it both online and in their home equipment. Stil don't know why Kinoma hasn't responded about the claim of WM phones having the power to play AVI files. They sure seem to play just fine using CorePlayer.

    It just gives a very bad impression when a company openly bashes something that they don't have the capability of supporting.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    ...
    It just gives a very bad impression when a company openly bashes something that they don't have the capability of supporting.
    What makes this worse, is that this thread was dead for days and falling down the list. Then Charles brought it back up, which has resulted in The Phone Diva announcing she's favoring Core Player. It could have just ended, but here we are again.

    Even the kids with Playstation 3's and XBox 360's can play Divx!

    No matter how Charles speaks against it, it's not going to stop people from using and wanting AVI, Divx and xvid support.

    I didn't even want Core Player, don't even really watch videos on my 800w, but all this talk is making me want to go play with Core Player.
  14. #74  
    I thought about the MP3 reference too. It's old and there's also newer formats with better compression. But anyone would be dumb not to support MP3 since it's still very widely used.


    As for AVI, the last time I looked, Canon digital cameras recorded short vids in AVI, although that may have changed. Maybe other cameras do too, so it may be a good idea to support AVI. But no DivX support is a little surprising since you see that one all over the internet. Even if AVI usage has gone down(debatable apparently), DivX usage is still strong.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  15. #75  
    AVI is very widely used. And not all by video pirates. Divx videos can have the AVI extension and many videos do.

    The truth is, Kinoma Play does not dominate the hand held video space and is obviously not making any efforts to. Great for music though .
  16. #76  
    That's why I said "debatable". Charles thinks it's dead, but others don't.

    If Kinoma is mainly good for music, I won't pay for 2 players, so it'd have to be Core since it can do both.

    Kinoma does have a nice interface though, at least from what I could tell from the free version. The one thing I didn't like was it hijacks the Piscel photo viewer through File Explorer, then I can't set a picture as a background until I go through "My Stuff" on AT&T phones. And it also doesn't act right as a photo viewer IMO. After I uninstalled it, I could use File Explorer to set the picture again and flip through photos properly. And no DivX support on the paid player bites.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    That's why I said "debatable". Charles thinks it's dead, but others don't.

    If Kinoma is mainly good for music, I won't pay for 2 players, so it'd have to be Core since it can do both.

    Kinoma does have a nice interface though, at least from what I could tell from the free version.
    Thats the conclusion I came to too... pity for Kinoma, if they added avi/divx support they probably would get more customers... just look at the number of DVD players out there that support divx too... there clearly is a demand for it, regardless of the source of the files...
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  18. #78  
    Just to throw another 2 cents into the avi debate.... My brand new state of the art Nikon still camera also does video - in avi format. I can't imagine Nikon using a dead format in a brand new device.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Alli View Post
    Just to throw another 2 cents into the avi debate.... My brand new state of the art Nikon still camera also does video - in avi format. I can't imagine Nikon using a dead format in a brand new device.
    Everyone knows that Nikon is a company of thieves and liars who only produce the lowest quality products that lack innovation. LOL

    I'm still unclear about Kinoma's claim that mobile devices lack the processing power to play AVI files. CorePlayer plays AVI files easily on every pdaphone that I've owned. Hmmm.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Everyone knows that Nikon is a company of thieves and liars who only produce the lowest quality products that lack innovation. LOL

    I'm still unclear about Kinoma's claim that mobile devices lack the processing power to play AVI files. CorePlayer plays AVI files easily on every pdaphone that I've owned. Hmmm.
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