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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    As I've stated before, my best guess (and a guess is all anyone has) is that Palm locked down GPS for Verizon when they were going to carry the phone, and either forgot to unlock it or did not unlock it completely.

    We know that Verizon pretty much locks down every single phone, so it's a pretty fair assumption.
    Bad guess. It has nothing to do with Verizon. The Touch Pro works perfectly and Verizon is going to lock down its GPS when they release their version of it shortly. Trust me.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    So it'd have absolutely nothing with the 800w originally being designed for Verizon?
    Nope. Defective hardware is defective hardware. Your logic if fatally flawed. If you were right, the Touch Pro released by Verizon would have fully-functional GPS because it was "designed" for Sprint. How much would you like to bet on that one?
  3.    #43  
    Post removed, off topic
    Last edited by Ebag333; 11/17/2008 at 02:04 PM. Reason: Post removed, off topic
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim1348 View Post
    This probably answers what we have been discussing in another thread here.
    So, I gather that if I were to get a Palm Treo 800w and install Garmin Mobile 800w, it would work as long as I subscribe to cellular service, but otherwise the GPS function of the Palm Treo 800w will simply not work then?
    1) In US Sprint* range and some US CDMA roaming and outdoors: quickly acquired, excellent accuracy GPS position reporting to you programs

    2) In Sprint range and indoors: variable quality (expected)

    3) Out of Sprint range** (standalone GSP): broken

    *Do you need to even subscribe if you are in Sprint range? Palm says no. We haven't tested it. It is my next test.

    ** 95% of the earth is not covered by Sprint. On the upside most of the US is, but standalone means everywhere.
  5. #45  
    Causes: the great uinknown.
    Are there rationa reasons for peiople here to specyulate on cause? Oh yes. Why?
    a) From a poin t of view of applying pressure helps on to have an idea as to which party would be responsible and where to apply pressure.
    b) From a customer value point of view it can help at educated or speculative guess as to whether it will can be fixed which informs us as to whether to get a different smartphone
    c) from a user workaround/hack point of view, or even a technical intellectual puzzle the cause or cause has value

    possible causes in no particular order:
    1) legal/patent/rights not purchased: between qualcom and Palm,or a company with claims/settlements to qualcomm. This maybe what happened on 8830 which can work out the US but won't to to a "qualcom stipulation".
    2) poorly designed/integrated antenna
    3) fixable Software issue
    4) non fixable software issue
    5) multiple others

    Arguments exists to one degree or another for any of these. My own personal view is four months is along time for a software bug and that the faq as written would not have been published if Palm could fix it.
  6. #46  
    Ebag, you dodged my question so I'll ask it again. How much would you like to bet that Verizon's version of the Touch Pro will be locked to their GPS app and will require a hack to unlock it? It will blow your theory out of the water if it happens since the Touch Pro was designed for Sprint with fully-functional GPS.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    The 800w's GPS is broken for initialization, we all know that.

    Anyone got any ideas?

    I don't. What's the deal with the GPS on the 800W???
  8.    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Triple xXx View Post
    I don't. What's the deal with the GPS on the 800W???
    Long story short: you have to have service to initialize GPS.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Long story short: you have to have service to initialize GPS.
    Of course, doesn't that make sense? Did you expect to use the GPS with out service? I'm not trying to be funny...



    .
    Last edited by Triple xXx; 11/16/2008 at 08:26 PM.
  10.    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Triple xXx View Post
    Of course doesn't that make sense?
    Standalone GPS *SHOULD* work anywhere, regardless.

    The 800w has (or rather, should have) both aGPS and standalone GPS. aGPS will of course only work while on the network. GPS should work off network.

    Some folks (like myself) have reported good luck with GPS off network....provided we initialized (started) the GPS on network.

    Some folks have reported that they lose GPS shortly after they leave the network.

    According to Palm (and according to my own tests), as long as you start GPS while in service and leave it running (don't stop GPS or soft reset), then GPS should continue to work. If you lose GPS for whatever reason (soft reset, shut down the application, turned off the service, lost signals, etc), then you will not be able to restart GPS until you have service again.
  11. vMAC's Avatar
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    #51  
    how long did it take for the 6800 to get true standalone GPS? I'm pretty sure it was longer than 4 months.
  12. #52  
    I keep checking into this thread hoping for a new .cab from eBag to solve Palm's 800w problems. And I'm consistently forced to be more patient.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Nope. Defective hardware is defective hardware. Your logic if fatally flawed. If you were right, the Touch Pro released by Verizon would have fully-functional GPS because it was "designed" for Sprint. How much would you like to bet on that one?
    The Touch Pro on Verizon is a completely different phone from the Touch Pro on Sprint, as we pretty much exhaustively proved here:

    http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/ve...ferent_an.html

    As for GPS not working on phones, that is something that is usually decided on by the carrier (verizon) and then the manufacturer capitulates (Palm or HTC). In recent memory, I can't think of a single instance where the hardware itself was 'defective.' Instead it gets locked down by carrier request and then we have varying degrees of success in unlocking it. It's reasonable to assume that Palm did indeed put in some sort of lockdown code in there for Verizon and then didn't take it out for Sprint because Sprint and Palm both wanted to get the already late device out the door as soon as possible.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Triple xXx View Post
    Of course, doesn't that make sense? Did you expect to use the GPS with out service? I'm not trying to be funny...
    .
    Do you expect to use the WifFi without service? Why have WFi then?

    90% of the phones features are designed to work without service.

    Palm explicitly advertised that it did worked without service. It made the 800w appear to have an advantage over smartphones that required service, or to be on equal terms with current Smartphones that have GPS working without service. After all Sprint service covers less than 5% of the planet.
  15. #55  
    retitling this thread "More discussion on why Treo 800w GPS doesn't work off network" We'll keep the discussion of why this is and who's at fault here.

    ...Ebag333 et al go to the following thread to discuss specifically the question of how to fix it. That thread will be only for investigation / troubleshooting. People taking that thread off topic will feel the wrath of my infraction stick:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...17#post1523617
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dieter Bohn View Post
    As for GPS not working on phones, that is something that is usually decided on by the carrier (verizon) and then the manufacturer capitulates (Palm or HTC). In recent memory, I can't think of a single instance where the hardware itself was 'defective.' Instead it gets locked down by carrier request and then we have varying degrees of success in unlocking it.
    Dieter. Tank you. I have explicit statements from Sprint saying they did nothing and never asked for it to be locked down or disabled. They say this is a Palm error. Verizon has not denied their lockdowns/lockouts.

    Also, respectfully, Verizon's lock downs (GPS, Bluetoth) have had to do with driving toward alternative paid service. That is not the issue here either by implication or by any examination of how it is broken. You can't pay a million bucks more to Sprint to get standalone to work.

    You expertise and history is valuable, but motive for carrier lock down is established in Verizon whereas Sprint has not motive to lock standalone GPS that has been articulated here.

    People feel strongly about it because it goes to the degree of responsibility to Sprint or Palm. I believe both should be pressured. I believe both have legal and ethical responsibility. But I think the evidence points to Palm either having a permanent hardware fail or having a repairable software flaw, both outside of any Sprint lockout.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    x2

    I just went ahead and removed my posts that were not on topic.
    Given this I have removed the response I made to Ebag333.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dieter Bohn View Post
    retitling this thread "More discussion on why Treo 800w GPS doesn't work off network" We'll keep the discussion of why this is and who's at fault here.

    ...Ebag333 et al go to the following thread to discuss specifically the question of how to fix it. That thread will be only for investigation / troubleshooting. People taking that thread off topic will feel the wrath of my infraction stick:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...17#post1523617
    And I removed it before knowing about this statement by Dieter .
  18. #58  
    Ron and I were here at the same time doing similar-esque things. We're going to leave the stuff stand as I put in the above post, but with the added caveat that I'd like to see things get a little less contentious here.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dieter Bohn View Post
    The Touch Pro on Verizon is a completely different phone from the Touch Pro on Sprint, as we pretty much exhaustively proved here:

    http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/ve...ferent_an.html

    As for GPS not working on phones, that is something that is usually decided on by the carrier (verizon) and then the manufacturer capitulates (Palm or HTC). In recent memory, I can't think of a single instance where the hardware itself was 'defective.' Instead it gets locked down by carrier request and then we have varying degrees of success in unlocking it. It's reasonable to assume that Palm did indeed put in some sort of lockdown code in there for Verizon and then didn't take it out for Sprint because Sprint and Palm both wanted to get the already late device out the door as soon as possible.
    Same flawed logic. 800w designed for Verizon so the GPS is locked and Palm has no clue how to unlock it? Touch Pro designed for Sprint with fully-functional GPS that Palm is somehow able to lock down for release on Verizon's network.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Same flawed logic. 800w designed for Verizon so the GPS is locked and Palm has no clue how to unlock it? Touch Pro designed for Sprint with fully-functional GPS that Palm is somehow able to lock down for release on Verizon's network.
    It's not so much 'flawed logic' as it is possibly flawed conjecture. Neither you nor I know exactly what happened during the dev process of either phone. It's academic, IMO, and I don't really have a horse in that race.
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