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  1.    #1  
    I just picked up an 800w. I've been lurking quite a bit and I'd like to offer up a little bit of perspective. I've had "smart devices" from the Palm Pilot 1000, I end had the Visor Phone atrocity. Nothing is perfect when it first comes out. This phone seems WAY more polished than the HTC/Sprint Mogul I bought about a year ago. OMG was that a total POS when it first came out.

    The 800wx is equivalent to the second revision of 6.0 for the Mogul. There were things that just didn't even work. The GPS wasn't even enabled, neither was Rev A. The bluetooth was so bad, you couldn't even use it. The power management was horrible, the phone would come on at random times and stay on, draining the battery. Half your calls went to voicemal. The phone would lockup for whatever reason. People were feverishly coming up with custom roms using bits from here and there to try to make it work. After four revisions of the firmware, the phone was/is as solid as any aside from its physical shortcomings.

    The thing is, no one is coming out with perfect phones, even Steve & Co are having issues. Give it some time and it will get better. I think T-mo is the only execption, they seem to put out a single revision and not fix everything. I'm confident this phone will get pretty good but by then, we'll all find a new love...
  2. #2  
    There is one problem. Palm released two updates and from what I've been told (written several letters and actually did get responses) there are none in the works currently. They are working on Treo Pro updates at this time.

    I am just dealing with my issues. Today was probably the best battery day I've had ever. My data sessions are scheduled through ActiveSync. Still have a caller ID bug, cannot sync my phone with my laptop but other than that not so bad. I need to figure these out and maybe just maybe be a little satisfied.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    There is one problem. Palm released two updates and from what I've been told (written several letters and actually did get responses) there are none in the works currently. They are working on Treo Pro updates at this time.
    That's not true.

    The CDMA engineering team is a separate group from the GSM team. Yes there are some people who float back and forth, but there are two separate teams.


    Unless you're suggesting that a whole development team is sitting around playing Warhammer Online?



    And excellent post on perspective Yakky. People tend to always find the worst in their own device, and the best in everyone elses. I also had the dubious pleasure of using a Mogul pre-updates....fortunately it wasn't mine!


    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    I am just dealing with my issues. Today was probably the best battery day I've had ever. My data sessions are scheduled through ActiveSync. Still have a caller ID bug, cannot sync my phone with my laptop but other than that not so bad. I need to figure these out and maybe just maybe be a little satisfied.
    If you'd answer my questions in your posts, you MIGHT just get a bit of help with the problem too.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    There is one problem. Palm released two updates and from what I've been told (written several letters and actually did get responses) there are none in the works currently. They are working on Treo Pro updates at this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muffnician View Post
    I heard back from both people I contacted and have been assured by both of them that Palm is aware of the issue [re: PRL update --mal] and it will be addressed in the first ROM upgrade for the device. No ETA was provided for the release but with all the little updates that are out it should not be long.

    Muff
    Muffnician is a Sprint technician and I'll take his word any day.

    Palm will certainly have a service rom update for the 800w.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 10/17/2008 at 01:33 AM.
  5. Cel
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Unless you're suggesting that a whole development team is sitting around playing Warhammer Online?
    It's pretty fun, that's what I'd do...
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    The CDMA engineering team is a separate group from the GSM team. Yes there are some people who float back and forth, but there are two separate teams.
    Now why did people say the Treo 800w and Treo Pro both look as if 2 totally different teams produced them, but some assume the same group supports them both?

    I think the Treo 800w as is thus far is pretty good, with GPS being the only thing that really missed advertised spec in my opinion. I think there will be updates (1 or more) to address some things and of course we will see what is addressed then. Palm has already released 2 small Treo 800w updates, Treo 800w Voice Dialing Over Bluetooth and Treo 800w USB and Battery Charging Update. I highly doubt those will be the last. Even those 2 small updates addressed things that were a major concern for some folks.

    Overall, I think Yakky's comment is superb. And it's apparent, Palm's first crack at a device with WiFi and GPS included came out the gate better than HTC's initial Mogul launch.
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    There is one problem. Palm released two updates and from what I've been told (written several letters and actually did get responses) there are none in the works currently. They are working on Treo Pro updates at this time.

    I am just dealing with my issues. Today was probably the best battery day I've had ever. My data sessions are scheduled through ActiveSync. Still have a caller ID bug, cannot sync my phone with my laptop but other than that not so bad. I need to figure these out and maybe just maybe be a little satisfied.
    Those were two "updates" but not ROM releases. I think you are missing the point. Certainly your list of devices indicates you've had the pleasure of more than a few, it fact having owned a Mogul and a Q9C, why did you jump ship so fast? The Mogul is barely a year old. Which of those devices was perfect in the first ROM release? My point is, we are early adopters, the phones ARE buggy when they first come out, but it gets ironed out. *****ing about it instead of identifying the problems doesn't really help.
  8. #8  
    it may be there first device with GPS and WiFi but they had over 2 years R&D to get it right. Its been over 3 months now and there should have been a fix for at least audio volume for ringers/reminders, improvement in the earpiece audio quality, potential speakerphone improvement, fix for missed calls during data session (my box is unchecked, so far not a problem but people are having this problem). They obviously can't fix the battery and standalone GPS with a ROM update. A few tweaks is all I ask. We could all benefit from these. I really hope they fix us up.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    That's not true.

    The CDMA engineering team is a separate group from the GSM team. Yes there are some people who float back and forth, but there are two separate teams.


    Unless you're suggesting that a whole development team is sitting around playing Warhammer Online?



    And excellent post on perspective Yakky. People tend to always find the worst in their own device, and the best in everyone elses. I also had the dubious pleasure of using a Mogul pre-updates....fortunately it wasn't mine!




    If you'd answer my questions in your posts, you MIGHT just get a bit of help with the problem too.
    I know someone at sprint, and they asid they are currently in development for a software update for our 800w phones.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Now why did people say the Treo 800w and Treo Pro both look as if 2 totally different teams produced them, but some assume the same group supports them both?

    I think the Treo 800w as is thus far is pretty good, with GPS being the only thing that really missed advertised spec in my opinion. I think there will be updates (1 or more) to address some things and of course we will see what is addressed then. Palm has already released 2 small Treo 800w updates, Treo 800w Voice Dialing Over Bluetooth and Treo 800w USB and Battery Charging Update. I highly doubt those will be the last. Even those 2 small updates addressed things that were a major concern for some folks.

    Overall, I think Yakky's comment is superb. And it's apparent, Palm's first crack at a device with WiFi and GPS included came out the gate better than HTC's initial Mogul launch.
    supposedly they are fixing the gps and how the gps is accessed b/c they claim that gps doesnt stop pulling in a location even after the app is exited which they claim is the reason why the battery life is poor
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    it may be there first device with GPS and WiFi but they had over 2 years R&D to get it right.
    How long did HTC take with the Mogul?

    Its been over 3 months now and there should have been a fix for at least audio volume for ringers/reminders,
    Huh, where are the mass of complaints about that?

    improvement in the earpiece audio quality,
    Seems most feel the handset audio quality is good.


    potential speakerphone improvement,
    I think if they can improve the speakerphone, they will.


    fix for missed calls during data session (my box is unchecked, so far not a problem but people are having this problem).
    I have strong doubts about this being a real "bug". I've NEVER missed a call while in ANY data session. And I think some who complain about it are not in EVDO coverage at the time a call does not get to them. The feature only works in EVDO coverage.

    They obviously can't fix the battery and standalone GPS with a ROM update. A few tweaks is all I ask. We could all benefit from these. I really hope they fix us up.
    They've already come with 2 updates in less than 3 months, so they've been releasing fixes. I think they're likely working on other updates and will release them. Not that they might be able to do something about the battery life or GPS issues, I'll just take it as a pleasant surprise if they do, but I highly doubt they've ended all support for Treo 800w updates.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    They obviously can't fix the battery and standalone GPS with a ROM update. A few tweaks is all I ask. We could all benefit from these. I really hope they fix us up.
    Why is this "obvious"?

    It's quite the opposite. Palm can release little tweaks if they do not require carrier testing or approval. More specifically, anything that goes driver level deep and effects the radio (like GPS) would most certainly require a re-flashing of the device's ROM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    How long did HTC take with the Mogul?


    Huh, where are the mass of complaints about that?



    Seems most feel the handset audio quality is good.




    I think if they can improve the speakerphone, they will.




    I have strong doubts about this being a real "bug". I've NEVER missed a call while in ANY data session. And I think some who complain about it are not in EVDO coverage at the time a call does not get to them. The feature only works in EVDO coverage.



    They've already come with 2 updates in less than 3 months, so they've been releasing fixes. I think they're likely working on other updates and will release them. Not that they might be able to do something about the battery life or GPS issues, I'll just take it as a pleasant surprise if they do, but I highly doubt they've ended all support for Treo 800w updates.

    1. I'm not sure how long it took for HTC to release Mogul updates. Everything other than memory seemed to work fine for me. The battery got me through the day. Sliding the keyboard with no memory did suck. I do know there was a 2.95 ROM release then a few months later came 3.35 ROM with GPS/Sprint TV/Sprint Nav./Rev. A./Task Manager and more. Then a few months later 6.1. I'd say they were pretty good with releasing updates. I can careless at this point, new day, new device.

    2. I don't know what earpiece they put in your device but all three of mine are low and muffled. Turning it up only makes it worse. Speakerphone is a joke which we can all agree. Player music on the speaker is very nice though. Way better than any PDA I've had.

    4. The Ringer audio for calls and alerts is really low. I miss calls due to this. Lately I just leave it on vibrate. I don't miss anything. All my other device were much louder. I'm sure this is fix, hack or something.

    3. Missed calls during data. I don't have time to dig up threads but here is one I am apart of. Like mentioned I am not having this issue with this device. My first one died due to the radio which was missed calls, texts, etc. The radio was toast.
    http://howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1427993

    Again, I'm not complaining, more like hoping there was a release from Palm already. I believe these can be fixed with some kind of update.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Why is this "obvious"?

    It's quite the opposite. Palm can release little tweaks if they do not require carrier testing or approval. More specifically, anything that goes driver level deep and effects the radio (like GPS) would most certainly require a re-flashing of the device's ROM.
    I'm only going by the chipset debate you and Darnell had. I think you guys said in agreement that the chip was unable to do standalone. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know what radio updates will do to improve this. Honestly you guys know about this more than me.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    I'm only going by the chipset debate you and Darnell had. I think you guys said in agreement that the chip was unable to do standalone. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know what radio updates will do to improve this. Honestly you guys know about this more than me.
    Actually we left that agreeing only that stand alone does not work now. And not really certain if the thing ever will have stand alone GPS.

    Mal feels Palm may fix it, I feel they probably can't. (That was the tens of back and forth comments right there .) There is documentation showing the chip can possibly do stand alone GPS, but given Palm's waffling I suspect the issue may not be resolved by them and may require more than a ROM update, but that's my speculation based on Palm's lackluster statements. The documentation showing the chip can only do aGPS says the same of other chips that are already doing GPS and aGPS.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    1. I'm not sure how long it took for HTC to release Mogul updates. Everything other than memory seemed to work fine for me. The battery got me through the day. Sliding the keyboard with no memory did suck. I do know there was a 2.95 ROM release then a few months later came 3.35 ROM with GPS/Sprint TV/Sprint Nav./Rev. A./Task Manager and more. Then a few months later 6.1. I'd say they were pretty good with releasing updates. I can careless at this point, new day, new device.
    When I asked how long it took HTC with the Mogul, I was asking in terms of you saying Palm had 2 years to the T800w right. I'm wondering how long HTC worked on the Mogul before release to "get it right" and it still didn't have GPS at release. At least the T800w has aGPS and personally I prefer aGPS and only see GPS as a backup in cases where I can't use aGPS.

    Now given you don't recall how long it took for Mogul updates, how can you blame Palm for anything after 3 months? What basis are you working from if not these Mogul updates that were talked about? Did some letter from Palm tell you "we're not going to update the Treo 800w, ever"? I think we both know the answer to that.

    2. I don't know what earpiece they put in your device but all three of mine are low and muffled. Turning it up only makes it worse. Speakerphone is a joke which we can all agree. Player music on the speaker is very nice though. Way better than any PDA I've had.
    I guess me and many others who responded to that poll got a good one. I don't agree that the speakerphone is a joke. Mine is usable. I have found depending on the call sometimes turning the speakerphone volume up too loud causes things to sound muffled, but I can't say I see it as something to jump about. You say playing music on the speaker is "very nice", so the speaker is proving to be very good for something. I really don't see the speaker as an issue at all.

    4. The Ringer audio for calls and alerts is really low. I miss calls due to this. Lately I just leave it on vibrate. I don't miss anything. All my other device were much louder. I'm sure this is fix, hack or something.
    I absolutely don't have that problem. My ringer is loud and I hear every time a reminder pops up. Are you in a loud area and do you have the volume turned up?

    3. Missed calls during data. I don't have time to dig up threads but here is one I am apart of. Like mentioned I am not having this issue with this device. My first one died due to the radio which was missed calls, texts, etc. The radio was toast.
    http://howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1427993
    Yea I've seen similar threads here, but again, I have strong doubts and never experienced that.

    Again, I'm not complaining, more like hoping there was a release from Palm already. I believe these can be fixed with some kind of update.
    But I think some of the things you're saying need fixing are not actually broke and just random experiences based on certain owner's device configurations and scenarios. I think Palm will provide some updates, but I highly doubt all the things you've come up with will be changed, because there will always be random issues that most people never have.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyruz Reaper View Post
    supposedly they are fixing the gps and how the gps is accessed b/c they claim that gps doesnt stop pulling in a location even after the app is exited which they claim is the reason why the battery life is poor
    This matches with my experience. It's been something I've long suspected, but never really had any confirmation.

    After using GPS I will nearly always soft reset, and my personal experience is that the battery lasts much longer than when I don't do so.




    As for Vibrant's phone, he does seem to have a lot of issues with his. I suspect a fair chunk of it is setup, but it's certainly possible he managed to get a defective phone.


    Vibrant: There are a lot of tweaks you can do to improve the volume of notifications and some of the other things you're complaining about. Not sure you actually want help on your problems though, since you're not answering any of the posts I made with suggestions/questions in them.
  18. #18  
    Darnell, the PPC 6700 came out in 2006 (April?). The 6800 came out in July of 2007. If I remember correctly the reason the Mogul suffered low memory was due that they needed to get this phone out quickly (read that in posts). Updates started to come a few months later. I don't think it was over the 2 years Palm took to release the 800. If you want to dig up the time line I would love to read it. Seems like HTC can release a PDA every 1.3 years (Mogul July 2007, HTC Touch ?, Diamond Sept. 2008, Touch Pro Nov. 2008). Palm is more like 2.3 years (Treo 700wx Sept 2006, Treo 800w July 2008, Treo Pro Sept. 2008). So you can't really compare the two in release spans because there is no contest. HTC was the first with GPS and WiFi even though it was not enabled out of the box (well WiFi worked). They did have it built in. Now there're bringing more new stuff to the table- VGA screen, 3.2MP camera, etc. Stuff Palm won't get out for another 2+ years. On top of that HTC is actually making money were as Palm got an investment firm to give them $324 Million. There business has declined double digits the past several years, last year was over 16%. Palm's stock is $4.24, last year was over $19. You see the trend?

    Don't really want to get into a debate about HTC vs. Palm. I really don't care.

    I doubt I have a defective device. There is no way in hell all 3 of the ones I've had can have the same issues (or maybe they can, who knows). I'm ready for some updates already.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  19. #19  
    VibrantRedGT - Thank you for the Bloomberg report on Palm .

    Palm used their time to release a device that out the gate has aGPS, WiFi, Rev A and other nice things.

    The topic is, will it be even be better in time? I think everyone except perhaps you feel the answer is yes. I feel Palm will be releasing more updates of some sort, but you've made statements that appear to be more pessimistic. I'm highly pessimistic about them doing stand alone GPS, but I do think they're going to come with updates for something. I just leave stand alone GPS as a surprise for me if they do it.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    Darnell, the PPC 6700 came out in 2006 (April?). The 6800 came out in July of 2007. If I remember correctly the reason the Mogul suffered low memory was due that they needed to get this phone out quickly (read that in posts). Updates started to come a few months later. I don't think it was over the 2 years Palm took to release the 800. If you want to dig up the time line I would love to read it.
    • ppc-6700 was released Sept 2005; received first ROM update March 2006 (MSFP)
    • ppc-6800 was released June 2007

    the 6800 doesn't have enough RAM because it was designed for WM5 and delayed so they can put WM6 on it. In the meantime, they didn't change the RAM, which was too little for WM6 (but okay for WM5). Chalk it up to saving money/poor testing.

    On average, it's about 6 months for a ROM update from release. They did rush one out for the Mogul a few months later (Oct), then pulled it (!) because it caused more problems than solved.

    It wasn't till March 2008 that the Mogul got the "big" update to enable RevA and GPS--that's nearly 9 months after release.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
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