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  1. #41  
    Sprint Airave FAQs...

    37. Why does the AIRAVE require Global Positioning System (GPS) technology?
    Sprint AIRAVE uses GPS for network synchronization and device location information for 911.



    According to the Sprint Airave User's Guide (page 16) drawing, the Airave base station doesn't even look like it's accessing the cell towers nor does it care about them. Basically the Airave is acting as a mini-tower and using the internet to pipe your call through.




    About the size of traditional wireless access point (WAP), the base station pipes voice and data through the Internet to the Sprint network, which then routes the signal to the desired party on either the Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN) or Mobile Network.
    Last edited by crazie.eddie; 10/13/2008 at 01:57 AM.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    OK ran a bunch more tests and called support. Airave support confirms that aGPS wont work under airave for many aGPS devices including 800w. They are looking into it
    How is that possible? Did they give any explaination?
  3.    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by crazie.eddie View Post
    Did you look at the Airave and see where the external GPS gets connected. The label display GPS, it's not an RF antenna.
    Have you tried putting the airave where you can get a tower but absolutely no chance for getting a GPS sat? the "GPS" light will light and the device will work just fine.

    These are not repeaters, they are femtocell. They will work fine with no GPS and indeed no tower. Sprint has then set to ascertain their location by either tower or GPS for legal reasons only (e911 location requirements and to stop the from being used overseas).

    According to L2 Airave the Airave only needs to hit the Tower or Sat twice per day. You can confirm this by moving it while powered
  4. #44  
    The GPS is also needed for proper synchronization with the rest of the network. CDMA networks always had GPS receivers on every tower, years before E911 for this very reason.
  5. #45  
    Aero, maybe I'm tired, since I just woke up (off today), and after reading this, I'm a bit confused at what you're trying to say.

    Ok, according to Sprint's OWN documentation, as I provided in the URL's in my previous post...

    1. The Airave requires GPS acquisition for network sync and E911. Whether it does this hourly, daily, twice a day, GPS is still required.

    2. The Airave does not use/access/care about cell towers, as per their diagram.


    Maybe someone else, who understands your comment, can redefine your explanation.
    Last edited by crazie.eddie; 10/13/2008 at 04:12 PM.
  6.    #46  
    Eddie,

    The documentation says nothing about satellites! In fact no connection to a GPS satellite is required if it can get a tower.

    Again, rather than post a documentation that like a lot of airave documentation isn't detailed, why not just TEST it yourself. Put the airave where it can get a fair tower gps signal but no satellite GPS sat . It will light up the "GPS" and it will work just fine. Just as it will also work in the alternate: if it can get no tower but a sat instead.

    Also according to the diagram you posted the airave doesnt require a satellite!

    Even the text is not really precise and mentions no satellites.

    The GPS data can be taken from the TOWERs.

    Quote Originally Posted by techfury90 View Post
    The GPS is also needed for proper synchronization with the rest of the network. CDMA networks always had GPS receivers on every tower, years before E911 for this very reason.
    Exactly. and in this case (as with other femtocell schemes) no GPS sat is requited if it can obtain the timing elsewhere (like a tower). There are femtocells inside of buildings with external rf antenna to get towers. The Samsung Ubicell (the airave) uses a scheme and hardware from Trimble which can get the timing from a tower.

    Think about it, lots of femtocell are deep inside of buildings
    Last edited by aero; 10/13/2008 at 06:30 PM.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Exactly. and in this case (as with other femtocell schemes) no GPS sat is requited if it can obtain the timing elsewhere (like a tower). There are femtocells inside of buildings with external rf antenna to get towers. The Samsung Ubicell (the airave) uses a scheme and hardware from Trimble which can get the timing from a tower.

    Think about it, lots of femtocell are deep inside of buildings
    Yep, if it can get the timing from the tower, I'm sure the internal clocks are accurate enough to not rely on GPS.
  8. #48  
    I am 99% sure that it's not acquiring anything from the towers. Besides, it's best use is for areas of a weak signal. CDMA weakest at penetrating buildings. They why put the receiver inside the building? As other repeaters, you need an RF antenna outside of the building. But thanks for the Samsung link. I'm a skeptic and contact their support.

    But again, to answer your original question, have you tried dialing *99 prior to using aGPS inside the house?
  9.    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by crazie.eddie View Post
    I am 99% sure that it's not acquiring anything from the towers. Besides, it's best use is for areas of a weak signal. CDMA weakest at penetrating buildings. They why put the receiver inside the building? As other repeaters, you need an RF antenna outside of the building. But thanks for the Samsung link. I'm a skeptic and contact their support.
    But again, to answer your original question, have you tried dialing *99 prior to using aGPS inside the house?
    Sorry Eddie, it works with zero connection to any stallite.

    Femtocell (which is what the airave is, it isn't a repeater) works fine without satellites. It will grab a tower and work without a satellite.

    The airave itself is not primarily marketed for areas with poor signal -- go to a sprint store and see, the brochures emphasize first and primarily unlimited calling.

    On the *99, it is precisely when I do check a *99 that I get no GPS in airave range. I've checked it on multiple airwaves with multipel 800w. There is a ticket now at L2 airave since they now have been able to duplicate the problem.
  10.    #50  
    Today I learned from Airave support that the problem is the same thing underlying the *2 problem with airave (users hitting *2 while under airave often go to activations and not support)
  11. #51  
    Sprint Airave User's Guide (page 18)...

    By utilizing a built-in GPS antenna, the base station is capable of maintaining exact network timing updates and providing E911 services with an accurate location
    * The current GPS location (provided by the internal antenna) is used to help the base station quickly locate GPS satellites for faster GPS acquisition
    * If the GPS signal is ever interrupted or insufficient because of location, install the external GPS antenna and place it in an open area for better reception.

    Sprint Airave User's Guide (page 32)...

    In very rare cases, you may find that because of is current location, the base station's internal GPS antenna may not be able to properly receive and maintain an active GPS signal. If the GPS signal is not detected, as indicated by the LED, connect the included external GPS antenna.


    Without a valid GPS signal, the base station cannot function properly, and calls will be redirected to the nearest cell tower.
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post

    The airave itself is not primarily marketed for areas with poor signal -- go to a sprint store and see, the brochures emphasize first and primarily unlimited calling.
    Sorry, I never said that. This is what I said..
    Besides, it's best use is for areas of a weak signal.
    I believe I read some threads on another forum where users complain of weak signal in their home and the person on the phone would recommend the Airave.


    I knew it is used for unlimited calling, but thanks for reminding me. I guess.
    Last edited by crazie.eddie; 10/21/2008 at 01:56 AM.
  12.    #52  
    [Eddie, my point is if you look at the written marketing materal, ie the brochures in the sprint stores, for Airave, what it says on the front is a slogan about unlimited calling (vs poor signal fix).

    Obviously it was first marketed for bad signal, but I think from the current promotional language. sprint is are moving over in their marketing to taking some of the landline and esepcially voip market.

    In very rare cases, you may find that because of is current location, the base station's internal GPS antenna may not be able to properly receive and maintain an active GPS signal. If the GPS signal is not detected, as indicated by the LED, connect the included external GPS antenna.

    Without a valid GPS signal, the base station cannot function properly, and calls will be redirected to the nearest cell tower.
    Yes but dont read into that anything about airave need to directly connect to a satellite.
    Airave doesn't need a satellite to get GPS network time. What they mean there is a Tower or sat signal. The towers can and do transfer the GPS aquired network timing to CDMA devices.


    On the specific point of the GPS" light on the unit, if you call and get high enough with the airave technical support you will find that that gps light will light up with either a satellite or a tower. You can also test this by locating your airave in an area that gets a cdma tower but no chance of a gps sat signal. it will work.

    The reason why I brought it up is because my and other users 800w GS will not work while under our airaves. Others have said theirs does. It is possible there are other variables but I was speculating that a possible variable would be who the airave femtocell is getting its network time which the 800w requires for GPS
  13. #53  
    You know, I hate it when Sprint/Samsung is always wrong and Aero is always right. You should contact them and tell them correct their errors, because I don't know who to believe anymore.

    I guess from what you're, never believe in documentation and just trust you. I give up. Peace out...
  14.    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by crazie.eddie View Post
    You know, I hate it when Sprint/Samsung is always wrong and Aero is always right. You should contact them and tell them correct their errors, because I don't know who to believe anymore.
    I guess from what you're, never believe in documentation and just trust you. I give up. Peace out...
    Where is Sprint and Sumsung wrong? Why are you saying they are wrong They don't say needs satellites, and neither did I.

    Sprint doesnt need a statllite , Samsung doesnt say it needs a stalettlite, if you test it doesnt need a satellite. It gets network timing faster with a statellite but it can get the network timing form a tower as well (just like the 800w gets its intial timing from a tower!)

    As I said you can simply test it! No direct connection to the GPS satellite is needed for Airave to work.

    It can get its satellite data RELAYED from the tower -- like every AGPS device out there!
  15.    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by ink883 View Post
    The GPS functions on the Treo 800w do not work for me when I am connected to my Airave.
    Quote Originally Posted by michaelpule View Post
    So here's my results..

    Airave fully connected all lights blue
    800w connected to Airave verified by *99
    No GPS signal acquired inside, outside north or outside south of my house
    (Tried obtaining fix via Google Maps, GPSToday, and ##477)

    As I travel down the street away from my house and leave Airave Coverage, I can quickly acquire a GPS fix
    thanks for your tests.
  16. #56  
    I guss if you bother reading my my replies, which from the prevoius post I can tell you don't, as well as reading the user's guide, you will see the answers to your comments.

    But OK, this will be the end from me on this thread.

    Peace Out (Once and for all).
  17.    #57  
    Well, if you look at various airave forums people have them deep inside basements and many places where GPS from a sat won't work but gps from a tower will.

    I am just explaining what airave support itself will tell you, which is that you need only either a GPS tower (which can give you GPS network time fine) or the sats.

    For the chip inside the samsung the needed GPS comes either from either source. That is the way it is designed
  18. #58  
    Sent by me, via Samsung's website...
    I own the Sprint Airave and had a few questions regarding the device...

    1. The built in GPS, does it acquire GPS location from GPS satellites and cellular antenna or ONLY GPS satellites?

    2. Can the Unit function without acquiring GPS position?

    Thank you.

    Received from SAMSUNG ERMS <dear_customer@sec-erms.samsung.com> (10/26/2008)

    Thank you for your attention to Samsung Electronics.

    You can contact with Mr. June Kim who is in charge of USA Business for Ubicell product.

    His E-mail address is (junekim108@samsung.com).
    If you want more information, you can contact us again.


    Thank you.

    Sent an email to Mr. June Kim (junekim108@samsung.com) on Nov. 14, 2008 and I received the following reply from a Bijan Nowroozi <bnowrooz@sta.samsung.com> on Nov. 19, 2008...
    Ed, I believe these are now more fully covered in the latest user guides on our site (consumer, products, phones, sprint) or Sprint.com/airave


    1. The built in GPS, does it acquire GPS location from GPS satellites and cellular antenna or ONLY GPS satellites?
    Directly from the GPS satellites for location.

    2. Can the Unit function without acquiring GPS position?
    Yes in theory but in practice no. There are FCC requirements for E911 that require we are able to locate your phone in case of emergency and it would be impossible to perform hand over without GPS information.

    Regards,
    Bijan

    - Ed
    I hope this settles things. If anyone still thinks Sprint/Samsung is incorrect with their documentation, please inform them of their error...


    Crazie.Eddie Out
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by crazie.eddie View Post
    Sent by me, via Samsung's website...

    I hope this settles things. If anyone still thinks Sprint/Samsung is incorrect with their documentation, please inform them of their error...
    I don't have an Airave, but I was curious to see the resolution of this.

    Thanks for your excellent follow up and detective work!
  20.    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by crazie.eddie View Post
    Samsung is incorrect with their documentation, please inform them of their error...
    I went over this with the development team at Sprint. They have the firmware set to pull the GPS from the Tower or Sats.
    The default attempt is the satellite, secondary attempt with Sprint's firmware is the GPS timing and location from Sprint towers.

    The default is set this way since poor tower reception is not assumed. But it works fine with zero Sat GPS and uses the tower GPS instead if need be. All the towers have a full out GPS reception and they transmit this data to the Airave if no satellite reception occurs.

    you can see that the e911 reference makes sense either way as well just like it does on a normal phone if you can hit the towers.

    The point is this explains why you can place the airave in an area where Sat GPS is impossible and have it work fine as long as you have a good tower signal.
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