View Poll Results: Will Palm change the Verizon 800w?

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  • Palm will add true standalone GPS to the Verizon 800w

    0 0%
  • Palm will leave the 800w as it is, but remove standalone GPS from the specs

    15 57.69%
  • Palm will leave the 800w as it is, and still keep standalone GPS in the spec

    11 42.31%
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  1.    #1  
    So what do you think is more likely?

    A. Palm will add true standalone GPS to the Verizon 800w

    B. Palm will leave the 800w as it is, but remove standalone GPS from the specs

    C. Palm will leave the 800w as it is, and still keep standalone GPS in the specs

    I'm thinking Verizon 800w will give Palm a second chance to get things right in terms of GPS, but at the same time, I can already see all the Sprint 800w feeling cheated/betrayed/etc by Palm, especially with no promise of a fix ever coming for them. I'm thinking Palm will likely leave the 800w as it is, buy quietly remove standalone GPS from the Verizon specs.
  2. #2  
    I think Palm has to either fix it the standalone or leave it in the specs, falling back on their asinine and harmful redefinition.

    They can't fix it for verizon only. Once this became well know it would be ongoing cause for anyone dissatisfied for any reason with their sprint 800w to ask for an exchange with an equivalent model which would possible be the Touch Pro or the possible CDMA Treo Pro if either comes through with standalone. Trade to the Touch pro would severely hemorrhage the relationship with Sprint and Palm, and trade to the Treo Pro through Palm would be a huge cost on Palm.

    Also almost none of all the possible reasons why the GSM Palm pro has it and the 800W doesn't have it, apply to any difference between Verizon and Sprint on the 800W.

    so much for fixing it for Verizon and not for Sprint.

    If they change the description for verizon alone, no matter how moronic the "clarifying" (read muddying) FAQ", this will be an admission of false adverting an fairly good cause for Sprint 800W owners to demand recourse.

    I think they will either fix it; or remain having done a disservice to the 800W buyers who expected standalone, as well as harmed smart device buyers generally with their redefinition of standalone GPS.
  3. 1FstYota's Avatar
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    #3  
    Verizon is probably going to cripple half the features (Language) on the treo 800w knowing the way they do business.
    Last edited by berdinkerdickle; 02/07/2009 at 03:33 PM. Reason: Language
  4. #4  
    Since Verizon doesn't have any of their WM & BB devices with standalone GPS (they purposefully cripple them), Palm doesn't have to say standalone--in fact they would be required to disable standalone even if the 800w could. The 6800 is capable of standalone but Verizon removes it from the specs, has nothing to do with HTC.

    Standalone is just not an option on VZW.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Standalone is just not an option on VZW.
    x2

    Which is what makes me suspect that Verizon is to blame for the Sprint version of the 800w not having standalone GPS.
  6. #6  
    I think Verizon would be smart to NOT use the term "stand alone" in their advertising of the Treo 800w. I don't think Palm will change the device at all. I think Palm given their already in my opinion BOGUS statements will keep saying what they've been saying.
  7. #7  
    yup Verizon does not want stand alone GPS then they can't charge you for the VZ navigator.
  8. #8  
    If they make it standalone on Verizon, we could probably rip the software from there and fix Sprint's. As far as I know, the hardware is ready to be standalone...it's just a software issue that makes Sprint's act up.
    a740 --> a900 --> Katana --> a900 --> a900m --> M1 --> a900m --> PPC6700 --> a900m--> 8400 --> a900m --> Treo 700wx --> Treo 800w
  9. #9  
    The Treo 800w had a MSM6800A chip from Qualcomm. Can anyone show me a single device on this planet with the MSM6800A and stand alone GPS?

    Some statements assert that chip can do stand alone, but in actual application, I've only found chips later than the MSM6800A which actually can do stand alone GPS as most of us understand the term "stand alone".
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    The Treo 800w had a MSM6800A chip from Qualcomm. Can anyone show me a single device on this planet with the MSM6800A and stand alone GPS?

    Some statements assert that chip can do stand alone, but in actual application, I've only found chips later than the MSM6800A which actually can do stand alone GPS as most of us understand the term "stand alone".
    Just because one cannot show you a device that can doesn't mean it can't. in fact al we know are 3 devices that use it: aircard, 800w and instinct with the latter not mattering (the whole device isnetwork dependent as is the aircard)

    It's not the msm6800 you need to look at but what is the actual gps chip on board--it's rfr6500 which is capable of standalone if configured properly.

    gps on cdma is very new, especially for WM devices, there is a lot of unknowns here on our end.

    up till early 2008 you couldn't name a single CDMA WM device that had any type of active gps...

    either way, what ever happens on Verizon it won't help us since they don't allow standalone gps--it's a moot point.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Just because one cannot show you a device that can doesn't mean it can't. in fact al we know are 3 devices that use it: aircard, 800w and instinct with the latter not mattering (the whole device isnetwork dependent as is the aircard)

    It's not the msm6800 you need to look at but what is the actual gps chip on board--it's rfr6500 which is capable of standalone if configured properly.
    No it can't, the MSM6800 is aGPS.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Once again you are confusing things:

    It doesn't matter what the msm6800 is but what GPS chipset it has. The one it has is the rfr6500 which is capable of standalone.

    GPSOne systems have 4 potential configurations: standalone, hybrid, assisted and ms based.

    What matters here is whether or not the gps chip is plexed to an antenna and which configuration(s) it's drivers are setup for.

    That's how Qualcomm sells it's MSM systems: optional and modular with those choices left up to the customer.

    In the other thread I showed you info from Qualcomm on th 6800a which advertises "standalone" so I can't see how your link is somehow more definitive...

    Look up info GPSOne
    , it's not just aGPS.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 09/28/2008 at 11:24 AM.
  13. #13  
    Malatesta - MSM6800 is aGPS and you're not going to get some update from Palm to change that. They've already told you that you've already got stand alone GPS by their in my opinion foreign definition of the term. It's never happened for the MSM6800 or MSM6800A.

    Sure you want stand alone, because you've already spent the money and it would be nice to have in case you needed it, but don't hold your breath my friend.

    The MSM6800 is aGPS, other models in the product line such as the one in the Treo Pro (MSM7201A) and the one in the Mogul (MSM7500) do stand alone, but not the MSM6800. Qualcomm's specific specs for the MSM6800 are the final statement on the matter.
  14. #14  
    Okay, I may be completely wrong here, but as I understand it, the argument right now is over the chipset. However, if I understand chipsets correctly, they are not the end all, be all of devices. They can be paired with other components to enhance their function. For example, the chipset in the 800w supports up to 4.0MP cameras. If the chipset were the end all, be all, we would all be taking 4.0MP pictures with our 800ws. However, we are not, as the 800w has a 2.0MP camera. So, following the same idea, the chipset itself might support aGPS, but it's very probable that the actual GPS hardware in the phone supports standalone, and so, it could be unlocked by Palm in an update.

    It's like in a computer...the Intel chipsets have built in video support, but you can always add a video card in order to have better video.

    Of course, I could be completely wrong...it may not work anything like a computer.
    a740 --> a900 --> Katana --> a900 --> a900m --> M1 --> a900m --> PPC6700 --> a900m--> 8400 --> a900m --> Treo 700wx --> Treo 800w
  15. #15  
    Freak4Dell - I would not get my hopes up if I were you, but I'm done going back and forth about the matter.

    There won't be a 4MP camera or stand lone GPS from any Palm updates. Palm already said they're settled with things as they are regarding GPS.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Freak4Dell View Post
    Okay, I may be completely wrong here, but as I understand it, the argument right now is over the chipset. However, if I understand chipsets correctly, they are not the end all, be all of devices. They can be paired with other components to enhance their function. For example, the chipset in the 800w supports up to 4.0MP cameras. If the chipset were the end all, be all, we would all be taking 4.0MP pictures with our 800ws. However, we are not, as the 800w has a 2.0MP camera. So, following the same idea, the chipset itself might support aGPS, but it's very probable that the actual GPS hardware in the phone supports standalone, and so, it could be unlocked by Palm in an update.

    It's like in a computer...the Intel chipsets have built in video support, but you can always add a video card in order to have better video.

    Of course, I could be completely wrong...it may not work anything like a computer.
    Right idea, semi-right conclusion, and very wrong example.

    Your example would be more accurate if you said:

    The hardware supports a 4.0 MP camera.
    The drivers supports a 2.0 MP camera.
    The software doesn't care.
    Therefore, we only have support for 2.0 MP.

    We are in a very similar situation with GPS.

    The hardware itself (chipset) supports aGPS and standalone GPS. The software (TomTom, Google Maps, etc) doesn't care.

    The firmware and drivers are an unknown factor. But from our testing only appear to support aGPS (at least for initialization).
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Freak4Dell - I would not get my hopes up if I were you, but I'm done going back and forth about the matter.

    There won't be a 4MP camera or stand lone GPS from any Palm updates. Palm already said they're settled with things as they are regarding GPS.
    It was you that posted the link that informed the rest of us that Palm knows it's a software problem. While I personally don't even care if it's standalone or not (99% of the time, I have signal, and the 1% that I don't...I'm in a basement or a parking garage where it's hard to get lost), I just think that it'd be good if a fix were found. If the Verizon version does have standalone, I don't doubt that somebody will at least try to take the software from the Verizon one and put it on the Sprint one. It's too bad the Pro uses a different chipset, or I'd think that the software might even be able to be ripped from the Pro. Heck, we might still be able to use it, with some heavy modification. That'd probably be left to the guys at the XDA forums, though...they seem to be populated with a lot more programmers than TC.

    Then again, like people have said, this is all pointless because Verizon will lock down any GPS capabilities outside of their standard paid service, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Right idea, semi-right conclusion, and very wrong example.

    Your example would be more accurate if you said:

    The hardware supports a 4.0 MP camera.
    The drivers supports a 2.0 MP camera.
    The software doesn't care.
    Therefore, we only have support for 2.0 MP.

    We are in a very similar situation with GPS.

    The hardware itself (chipset) supports aGPS and standalone GPS. The software (TomTom, Google Maps, etc) doesn't care.

    The firmware and drivers are an unknown factor. But from our testing only appear to support aGPS (at least for initialization).
    Thanks for clarifying. Good to know I was on the right track, and even better to have learned something.
    a740 --> a900 --> Katana --> a900 --> a900m --> M1 --> a900m --> PPC6700 --> a900m--> 8400 --> a900m --> Treo 700wx --> Treo 800w
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Freak4Dell View Post
    It was you that posted the link that informed the rest of us that Palm knows it's a software problem.
    Which is what a Palm support person noted. And I really felt that was likely till seeing more information and Palm's response.

    Now I think either they can't do it, or if they do it, many will be disappointed with the results. But I post what I find, even when it does not favor my current opinion. Because hey, I don't get a dime regardless and I'm in the boat with everybody else who put down money and hopes for the best.

    Palm already said they feel we have GPS as they advertised it, regardless of what we say. Some of their people might be looking into it, but they've given no indication they will change anything or that they are capable of changing it. So why should I assume they'll come with something when they've already stated they feel they've fulfilled their end already? On 9/10/2008 they committed to nothing, on a device released back in July. Now they've got a new release launching, Treo Pro.

    We know Sprint won't do anything and they've got no real vested interest in doing anything. Other than the integrity of how the definition of terms is viewed.

    Qualcomm is way beyond the MSM6800, so I don't see them coming with a patch either.

    OK, so let's say 1 single line of code could fix this, who has committed to writing it?

    Can anyone show where Palm has given a response like this and then later made a patch that basically went against their own stance?

    And if there was a firmware fix, then the question would become, is the GPS really strong enough to work well fully stand alone?
  19. #19  
    Okay. Let me get this straight. We are speculating that Verizon will lock down the Treo's GPS, such that you will be unable to use it with any other software. Software such as Google Maps and TomTom. From what I have read about the Sprint version, TomTom, Garmin, etc, etc can be used with the internal GPS. Some must use GPSGate, others don't. But you can still use the software.

    Are you all saying that this will not be an option with Verizon, even with GPSGate. That is BS. Damn Verizon. If my company didn't cover my phone bill, I would have never gone to them. One of the big reasons for the 800 for me is the internal GPS, since it would mean one less thing to carry with me.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by larryo108 View Post
    Okay. Let me get this straight. We are speculating that Verizon will lock down the Treo's GPS, such that you will be unable to use it with any other software. Software such as Google Maps and TomTom.
    This is the case as that is what they have done with the Mogul and Touch.

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