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  1. #541  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Some guy named "Mo" over at BGR posted the following. Take it with a grain of salt but he at least sounds convincing.

    I'd love to believe the part about getting more RAM back in the Pro, but I'm not holding my breath (why would that hold up testing/certification on Sprint's network when the Mogul obviously passed? Or rather, it's not like it was a "bug" that no one knew about pre-release. It's like if Palm was shocked that the Treo Pro was black.)
    Dang it Sprint. I can hardly get my 700p to charge due to issues with the connectors, and I want a new Treo. Not going to the 755p or the 800w when I know the Pro is ready. Get this fixed and the Pro shipped so I don't have to juggle batteries and can get my exchange e-mail on my phone again. (Yes, I know there are options for exchange on PalmOS, but I don't like any of them and you took away my Sprint Business Connect).

    Cause I know in the back of my head I would be smarter to go to an iPhone, and we all know what that means. (No flames please, this is just me venting about the delays...)
  2. #542  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    It is a good sign. Palm has released handsets with large problems with its most recent releases. The delays in the Pre and Pro likely mean a more trouble free product
    Maybe. Just because they delayed the release doesn't mean that the phones will not have large problems. The cure may be worse that the disease.
  3. #543  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    The bits may have been made in China, and then assembled in Taiwan.

    Similar things happen with other items. Look at the Toyota Camry, which uses many of it's components that were produced in Japan (or China, and routed through Japan) but assembled in the US, so it gets the "Made in USA" stamp. (Not all Camry's are made in the US.)

    A lot of Buick's are assembled in Canada, but the parts are mostly from the US or Mexico. Those get the "Made in Canada" stamp.

    The "Made in" stamp can be decieving. It's almost never as simple as you might first believe.

    Really a bad example:

    1) Where a car is "made" is not listed on a US federal mandated sticker. Where the car is final assembled is listed on the sticker.

    2) Major components (typically engine, transmission) are also listed by origin.

    3) Electronics tend to designate the point of final assembly as where they were made. This is not true for automobiles where somewhat of a distiction is made (at least in the US).
  4. #544  
    Quote Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
    Really a bad example:

    1) Where a car is "made" is not listed on a US federal mandated sticker. Where the car is final assembled is listed on the sticker.

    2) Major components (typically engine, transmission) are also listed by origin.

    3) Electronics tend to designate the point of final assembly as where they were made. This is not true for automobiles where somewhat of a distiction is made (at least in the US).
    That is true. Come on though, it was just an example. Any example breaks down if you take it far enough.
  5. #545  
    Quote Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
    Maybe. Just because they delayed the release doesn't mean that the phones will not have large problems. The cure may be worse that the disease.
    Sometimes, but we have few people who got and still have the BEst buy model. They describe the as fast, and they are treo central members meaning they are critical and ls go through all the features. Mal noticed one problem and there is every reason to believe it is related to the with somewhat tight remaining user memory.

    I am not saying that that is the issue for positively certain, but it is a reasonable and good possibility.

    I think neither Sprint or Palm is going to release the Pro with large problems. If anything it is the least likely Palm handset in years to come with problems due to the hair trigger palm is on with its own pulling of the spotlight toward itself.
  6. #546  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart View Post
    Creating pricing separation between Pro and Pre is a real problem for both Palm and Sprint. Palm/Sprint don't want to price the phone too high killing sales. I wouldn't be surprised if the decision would be made to never sell Pro through Sprint. It causes too many problems for both companies.
    The Pro is a needed solution for Palm. It fixes problems it doesn't cause them. They are not going to go int fall 09 with no product for the business and enterprise market.

    The Pro will sell for a higher price, and probably will sell more units until three to six months after Pre release.

    Enterprise isn't going to care about the hype on the Pre. The secondary costs we all incur, learning a new OS, getting it workign worth our personal PC are magnified by the thousands in the Enterprise environment. And risks are much grater for them.

    Agian Palm doesn't create the pricing. Sprint will. Sprint is look at this to leverage ARPU -- they said so. That is part of pricing.

    In terms of selling the Pro though Sprint you are missing the fact that the large Enterprise buyers will not line up for an untested OS. It isn't going to happen. They are risk averse. Whatever the hinks in WM, they are known. The hinks in the new OS are a unknown. The security issues are a great unknown. The implementation manuals haven't been written at the corporate level.

    You are also missing the purpose of the Pre. The pre is to combat iphone defections and it is to push people to higher rate plans[B].

    Pre subsidized list price MUST be lower than Pro because it has a very different audience. And more important that audience is evaluating its costs very differently than you and I do.

    • Pre will be cheaper in subsidized price than the Pro but drive more income per unit sold to Sprint due to plans.
    • Pre,at $50 a pop would seem more expensive to enterprise because it will involve new implimentaiton costs not present on WM


    You have to remember Sprint doesn't make money selling phones. they make money selling plans and keeping mid and above ARPU customers from defecting. (Everything Plans, which will be required for sure as I have been writing since Jan 9: because Hesse said it for a reason), and insuring that people on higher plans don't go to iphone.

    Pre's secondary purpose is to help Palm and Sprint in the capital markets. We are talking about two companies both at the bottom of the barrel in capital markets in 08. They got the initial bang they needed, adn no they need it to get traction that they need to move them out with large immediate numbers.

    Pro purpose is to update people on WM. Big Enterprise buyers. They won't be buying pre in numbers until fall. Pre may not even be available in numbers til fall.

    You will see Sprints marketing department define the Pre. I Promise. You will see the Pro marketed in the high end business publications (it is already advertised in the high demographic print business publications by Sprint last week) and the Pre in the fat middle publications. Almost all the paid promotion of both of these devices will be by carrier -- as is always the case.
  7. #547  
    I'm thinking about making this phone my next upgrade if I ever do cross over to the WinMo side. I want to stay within the Palm family but also branch out with different devices. The TP sounds like it would be a good choice. So the delay is actually good for me since my upgrade isn't ready until 2011 lol
    Nokia American Idol Phone< Motorola RAZR<Nokia Flip Phone<Sidekick Slide<Palm Centro<HTC Snap

    Currently Enjoying: Palm Pixi
  8. #548  
    This report mentions the space issue is a "serious bug" in the system software.

    Technical Problems Delaying Sprint's Treo Pro
    Sprint was originally planning on releasing the Palm Treo Pro in January, but has had to push this release back several times. The reason for this delay is now known: a serious bug in the system software.

    According to engineers at HTC -- the company that developed the Treo Pro in cooperation with Palm -- they are hard at work trying to fix a problem that results in this device having only about 40 MB of free memory when no applications are running. This model has 256 MB of RAM, so it should have far more available memory.

    Unconfirmed reports say the latest target date for the release of this model is March 15.
    ...
    I believe they will correct this, leaving the device with lots more free program memory and good stability.
  9. #549  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I believe they will correct this, leaving the device with lots more free program memory and good stability.
    Pressure toward improved pre-release quality control, whether in palms case they they be legal pressure because of past suits and warranty problems, or market pressure due to the pre needing to be perfect are a good thing.

    Smartphones are moving from cutting edge devices in the hands of people who are used to flaws on the cutting edge, to products mass marketed by makers and carriers, and Quality Control and testing need to be more serious.

    I think some of the tension and misunderstandings with some of the users here who have who have worked Roms, manipulated registries, installed drivers from other produts etc to fix defects, or abset a fix, explained them away as expected, even when prominantly advertised as working, are created by marketing than anythings esle.

    Markets and marketing define product roles much more than technical specifications. these things are now mass consumer devices. With two of Palms recent prior releases without decent testing, the 700w and the 800w and their problems, I thnk we see the lesson being learned.
  10. chippillie's Avatar
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    6 Global Posts
    #550  
    as of 2/13/09 sprint is sticking with 2/15 for the pro and mid march for the pre here is the copy of my online chat with them

    1:22:40 PM System System
    Connected to sprint-ap1.cnxchat.com
    1:22:40 PM System System
    Session ID: 5115256
    1:22:40 PM System System
    Your questions are important to us, please stay online and we will be with you as soon as possible.
    1:22:51 PM System System
    Robert has joined this session!
    1:22:51 PM System System
    Connected with Robert
    1:22:51 PM System System
    Thank you for contacting Sprint. My name is Robert. How may I assist you today?
    1:23:28 PM Customer Joe
    when is the treo pro and pre coming out
    1:24:36 PM Agent Robert
    I will be more than happy to answer your questions today!
    1:24:41 PM Agent Robert
    One moment please.
    1:25:46 PM Agent Robert
    The Treo Pro is scheduled to be released on 2/15/09 and the Pre is scheduled to be released in mid March. We do not have pricing information at this time for either phone.
    1:26:05 PM Customer Joe
    thanks
    1:26:16 PM Agent Robert
    Do you have any further questions or concerns about Sprint products or services that I can assist you with today?
  11. #551  
    Agent Robert obviously has not been updated by Agent Smith yet .
  12. #552  
    Quote Originally Posted by chippillie View Post
    as of 2/13/09 sprint is sticking with 2/15 for the pro and mid march for the pre here is the copy of my online chat with them

    1:22:40 PM System System
    Connected to sprint-ap1.cnxchat.com
    1:22:40 PM System System
    Session ID: 5115256
    1:22:40 PM System System
    Your questions are important to us, please stay online and we will be with you as soon as possible.
    1:22:51 PM System System
    Robert has joined this session!
    1:22:51 PM System System
    Connected with Robert
    1:22:51 PM System System
    Thank you for contacting Sprint. My name is Robert. How may I assist you today?
    1:23:28 PM Customer Joe
    when is the treo pro and pre coming out
    1:24:36 PM Agent Robert
    I will be more than happy to answer your questions today!
    1:24:41 PM Agent Robert
    One moment please.
    1:25:46 PM Agent Robert
    The Treo Pro is scheduled to be released on 2/15/09 and the Pre is scheduled to be released in mid March. We do not have pricing information at this time for either phone.
    1:26:05 PM Customer Joe
    thanks
    1:26:16 PM Agent Robert
    Do you have any further questions or concerns about Sprint products or services that I can assist you with today?

    Customer Service is given lil (and in some cases no) information as to device release dates, and if they are its more than likely outdated. If Palm & HTC pulled of an epic-miracle of flashing over 230k devices to a new ROM and managed to send them all back out into store for stocking AND all of this occured with no body fanboi-ing out to BGR so their leak would get on the web, I will buy you a cookie :-P
    Powah to the Headset Jockeys!
  13. #553  
    (emphasis added)
    Sprint Facing ROM Issues on Treo Pro, Leading to Delays
    HTC engineers have confirmed that the issue causing the continual delay of the Sprint Treo Pro lies in continuous ROM testing and certification to resolve a perpetual low free memory issue after many insiders discovered that the Treo Pro had ~40 MB of free memory with no applications running, despite shipping with 256 MB of RAM.

    Because of the above issue, the highly anticipated device has been slated with a TBDTBDTBD $date$ $now$ $according$ $to$ $the$ $latest$ $dealer$ $and$ $internal$ $corporate$ $store$ $roadmaps$ $instead$ $of$ $launching$ $at$ $the$ $end$ $of$ $the$ $month$ $as$ $PhoneNews$.$com$ $previously$ $reported$, $with$ $the$ $new$ $target$ $launch$ $date$ $of$ $March$ $15th$, $should$ $the$ $latest$ $testing$ $and$ $certification$ $prove$ $successful$.
    "Insiders"...hmmmmm...
    (After some folks gave the memory numbers here, suddenly the "insiders" "discovered"...hmmmm...

    One has to wonder if it was never noted in places like this site if the "insiders" would have ever "discovered" it? Especially since the devices had already been sent to stores awaiting the 2/15 sale date.)
    Last edited by darnell; 02/13/2009 at 01:28 PM.
  14. #554  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    (emphasis added)
    Sprint Facing ROM Issues on Treo Pro, Leading to Delays


    "Insiders"...hmmmmm...
    (After some folks gave the memory numbers here, suddenly the "insiders" "discovered"...hmmmm...

    One has to wonder if it was never noted in places like this site if the "insiders" would have ever "discovered" it? Especially since the devices had already been sent to stores awaiting the 2/15 sale date.)
    http://www.wmexperts.com/sprint-treo...ix-cause-delay

    To expand upon this latest info:
    1. The RAM issue has to do with WM not seeing the physical memory, which is spread over multiple chips. This is similar to the Verizon Touch Pro
    2. We here Sprint stores are getting restocked with the updated STP now

    As far as the "insiders" thing goes, if you remember the timeline, Sprint had delayed/pushed back the STP from 1/25 till Feb 15th even before people picked them up at Best Buy. So I really think their own testers "figured" this out and it had nothing to do with us

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  15. #555  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    As far as the "insiders" thing goes, if you remember the timeline, Sprint had delayed/pushed back the STP from 1/25 till Feb 15th even before people picked them up at Best Buy. So I really think their own testers "figured" this out and it had nothing to do with us
    Sarcastic Humor Mode: ON
    You're wrong!
    They couldn't figure out their left from their right if it wasn't for us pointing it out.
    Sarcastic Humor Mode: OFF

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    We hear Sprint stores are getting restocked with the updated STP now
    Just call me Berd.
  16. #556  
    If this info is accurate, good news, but seriously wtf...

    Mal, any hint of other changes, or was it just the RAM issue?
  17. #557  
    Does anyone think this is the shipments of "pre's" people kept rumoring about earlier. Instead of the PRE we have the... PRO? Personally I'm stoked either way
    Powah to the Headset Jockeys!
  18. #558  
    Quote Originally Posted by zbop View Post
    If this info is accurate, good news, but seriously wtf...

    Mal, any hint of other changes, or was it just the RAM issue?
    As far as I know, no other changes, but I'm not 100% sure on that. But honestly, with the turn around on this I highly doubt they had time to "fix" anything else.
    Quote Originally Posted by sp33d_Dialz View Post
    Does anyone think this is the shipments of "pre's" people kept rumoring about earlier. Instead of the PRE we have the... PRO?
    Definitely.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  19. #559  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    As far as I know, no other changes, but I'm not 100% sure on that. But honestly, with the turn around on this I highly doubt they had time to "fix" anything else.

    Definitely.
    Thanks, I figured as much, I guess I'm just hoping that the IE6 issues will be cleared up (but this is less of an issue for me than the RAM; there are ways to work around IE6).

    BTW, in your testing of IE6, were you able to determine if ON2 VP6 support has been implemented?
  20. #560  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    We here Sprint stores are getting restocked with the updated STP now
    The speed and precision required to turn around hundreds of thousands of devices so quickly just has to be amazing. There are probably people in China (the Taiwan part ) who lose their jobs just for pulling smart phones out of boxes too slow !

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