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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by techfury90 View Post
    Stolen from a store's inventory perhaps? That would explain the "brand new" bit...
    Yea, now I'd really like for someone to try and explain how you get a Treo 800w new in the box with a bad ESN that is NOT stolen?
  2. #22  
    Been reading around a bit. In the case of a locked ESN because of an outstanding bill, Sprint will release the ESN if the outstanding balance is paid. They won't release it because the owner changed, but the new owner would have to pay the balance and then Sprint would release the ESN.

    In the case presented in this thread, the Treo 800w has been noted to be "new", which means the ESN could not have been locked because of a billing issue. That leaves the probability that the Treo is HOT/STOLEN at a very high number, I'd say triple digits, but I'm still waiting for someone to explain all this away.

  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Yea, now I'd really like for someone to try and explain how you get a Treo 800w new in the box with a bad ESN that is NOT stolen?
    New account that was closed within 30 days and never used. Phone wasn't returned.

    That's my guess.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    New account that was closed within 30 days and never used. Phone wasn't returned.

    That's my guess.
    That would be the same as STEALING!

    As of yet, not a single explanation has come that would affirm this Treo 800w is anything but STOLEN.
  5. #25  
    And this sort of thing does not help to make the monthly Sprint bill lower for honest Sprint customers!

    Every device they lose via dishonest means is paid for by WE HONEST SPRINT CUSTOMERS IN CONTINUALLY HIGHER MONTHLY FEES.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Sprint still has options to collect their money from the person with an outstanding balance due, Sprint locking out the device when it has a new owner would only keep Sprint from making money off a new contract. That does not make any sense at all, can anyone explain if this is true what form of logic is being used by Sprint?
    Entirely possible it isn't stolen. It could be purchased with a certain number of discounts contingent upon activation and a contract that were not followed through.

    Sprint won't activate it because this is the same as not paying. Handset subsidies of the major carriers are actually on average very small (about $14 per handset) but an astute buyer can actually drive down the price of a smartphone with a very large subsidy.

    A smartphone is going to have an inherent value even if it can't be activated. A huge number of functions on an 800W have nothing to do with its use as a phone. It has wifi, so even its connected services are not completely exclusive and non connected features such as camera, mp3, nice screen, etc will work

    That aside, even if not stolen Sprint has a reason to not activate it. They will create a market in taking advantage of their subsidies.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Entirely possible it isn't stolen. It could be purchased with a certain number of discounts contingent upon activation and a contract that were not followed through.

    Sprint won't activate it because this is the same as not paying. Handset subsidies of the major carriers are actually on average very small (about $14 per handset) but an astute buyer can actually drive down the price of a smartphone with a very large subsidy.

    A smartphone is going to have an inherent value even if it can't be activated. A huge number of functions on an 800W have nothing to do with its use as a phone. It has wifi, so even its connected services are not completely exclusive and non connected features such as camera, mp3, nice screen, etc will work

    That aside, even if not stolen Sprint has a reason to not activate it. They will create a market in taking advantage of their subsidies.
    Aero, if Sprint offers me a Treo 800w for $20 and says they'll give me a bunch of other discounts so the price for me is just $20, I accept the Treo 800w, then refuse to pay the $20, Sprint blocks the ESN and I sell the Treo 800w on Ebay, that's not only stealing, but reselling stolen property. (The same is true even if all was contingent on activation and that was never followed through on.)

    Your scenario is nothing but another form of theft. Theft that cost me (you and all other Sprint customers) money in Sprint taking out the loss on paying customers such as myself (and you and all other paying Sprint customers).
    Last edited by darnell; 09/08/2008 at 08:14 PM. Reason: fix a typo
  8.    #28  
    I have a cricket account. I have the phone flashed over to cricket now. But the internet and the picture messaging don't work. Thats the problem I'm facing now.


    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Can anyone explain a reason Sprint would invalidate an ESN other than the device being reported lost or stolen?

    Showa72, have you tried activating it with Sprint? If so, what did they tell you? Why is the ESN bad? If you have not tried activating it with Sprint and you know it's not a stolen device, why not try activating with Sprint using the current ESN, to see what they'll say, since your initial post indicated that was your desire?

    If the device was found to be defective by Sprint, I'm pretty sure they'd repair it and resell it rather than just dumping it as a bad ESN.
  9. #29  
    Take your treo 800w to your nearest sprint store. (it has to be a corporate Sprint Store) They are the only ones that are able to unlock the esn Number ...
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Your scenario is nothing but another form of theft. Theft that cost me (you and all other Sprint customers) money in Sprint taking out the loss on paying customers such as myself (and you and all other paying Sprint customers).
    My scenario? Did you read my comment? I am explaining Sprint's rational for not activating. Specifically doing so will create a gray market.

    I was answering your posting/question below by explain why the actions you suggest would encourage theft (without suggesting that "your scenario" which would encourage theft).

    Sprint still has options to collect their money from the person with an outstanding balance due, Sprint locking out the device when it has a new owner would only keep Sprint from making money off a new contract. That does not make any sense at all, can anyone explain if this is true what form of logic is being used by Sprint?
  11. beandogger's Avatar
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    #31  
    Showa72,

    I might be able to help with internet/mms for 800w. IM me (blingblaugh - AIM or Gtalk or OovoO).

    Beandogger
  12. #32  
    how about this scenario: I loose my phone and I have insurance on my account so replacing my phone with a refurb costs me $50 (the cost of the deductable). I get my replacement phone, connect it, and then later, actually find the lost phone. Is the lost phone then considered stolen/has a bad ESN? Could this phone later on be reconnected (say for instance, I want to keep it as a spare)?
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by eastbayarb View Post
    how about this scenario: I loose my phone and I have insurance on my account so replacing my phone with a refurb costs me $50 (the cost of the deductable). I get my replacement phone, connect it, and then later, actually find the lost phone. Is the lost phone then considered stolen/has a bad ESN? Could this phone later on be reconnected (say for instance, I want to keep it as a spare)?
    The records should show that the phone was yours originally, so there should be no problems calling them back and telling the provider is not lost/stollen. But with it being already covered by insurance, they may consider it as insurance fraud.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by eastbayarb View Post
    how about this scenario: I loose my phone and I have insurance on my account so replacing my phone with a refurb costs me $50 (the cost of the deductable). I get my replacement phone, connect it, and then later, actually find the lost phone. Is the lost phone then considered stolen/has a bad ESN? Could this phone later on be reconnected (say for instance, I want to keep it as a spare)?
    I'm pretty sure that the terms of your insurance require you to return the phone if you happen to recover the "lost" phone.
  15. #35  
    absolutely. With any insurance they own whatever your claimed as lost. So you won't' be finding your lost handset, you will be finding their lost handset.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Aero, if Sprint offers me a Treo 800w for $20 and says they'll give me a bunch of other discounts so the price for me is just $20, I accept the Treo 800w, then refuse to pay the $20, Sprint blocks the ESN and I sell the Treo 800w on Ebay, that's not only stealing, but reselling stolen property. (The same is true even if all was contingent on activation and that was never followed through on.)

    What if, in your scenerio, you pay the $20? Then it's not stolen property.

    And I thought Sprint could activate the handset for you when you buy it new from them? So you don't have to follow-through on activating it.
    Last edited by beezlewaxin; 03/04/2009 at 08:59 PM.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by beezlewaxin View Post
    What if, in your scenerio, you pay the $20? Then it's not stolen property.

    And I thought Sprint could activate the handset for you when you buy it new from them? So you don't have to follow-through on activating it.
    I think you're missing some key points.

    If the price was just $20 and $20 was paid then in such a case, if Sprint was the seller they would not lock out the ESN. That would be a case where someone paid the full $599.99.

    But there's more to it than the sale price when done in making a contractual agreement to take advantage of carrier price discounts. (Getting the Treo 800w from Sprint at a price less than $599.) Sprint sells the 800w for $99 now if someone makes a 2 year agreement. So, $99 is paid but the customer still must fulfill contract obligations. If the customer does not care to fulfill their end of the contract in full, Sprint might charge a contract termination fee. If the customer fails to hold up their end of the contract in full, or refuses to pay old bills, or refuses to pay any applied termination fees, Sprint may lock the ESN. Sprint does not lock ESNs for no reason. And if an ESN was locked by mistake, the customer could go to Sprint and have the ESN reactivated.

    For Sprint to lock the ESN, something was done that violated Sprint's agreement with that customer. Or the 800w was just straight stolen from Sprint's stock.

    So when a Treo 800w with a bad ESN is sold on Ebay, it's because the person selling it on Ebay did not fulfill their agreement. Once someone else gets the device, either they will have to pay whatever money Sprint is waiting for or the ESN remains locked out of Sprint's network.

    If I agree to engage in a contract for merchandise and I fail to uphold my end of the contract, I've stolen the property. If the 800w was legit and clear, Sprint would have no legal grounds to do something such as lock the ESN and keep it locked even after the device changed hands after an Ebay sale.
  18. #38  
    I purchased a Treo on eBay for a parts phone that was advertised as having a bad ESN, but when i got it I was able to activate it via the Web and use it.

    I would try to activate it via the web just in case...
    .
    .
    .Treo Pro on Sprint Check out www.treotricks.com, Audio jack fix.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I think you're missing some key points.

    If the price was just $20 and $20 was paid then in such a case, if Sprint was the seller they would not lock out the ESN. That would be a case where someone paid the full $599.99.

    But there's more to it than the sale price when done in making a contractual agreement to take advantage of carrier price discounts. (Getting the Treo 800w from Sprint at a price less than $599.) Sprint sells the 800w for $99 now if someone makes a 2 year agreement. So, $99 is paid but the customer still must fulfill contract obligations. If the customer does not care to fulfill their end of the contract in full, Sprint might charge a contract termination fee. If the customer fails to hold up their end of the contract in full, or refuses to pay old bills, or refuses to pay any applied termination fees, Sprint may lock the ESN. Sprint does not lock ESNs for no reason. And if an ESN was locked by mistake, the customer could go to Sprint and have the ESN reactivated.

    For Sprint to lock the ESN, something was done that violated Sprint's agreement with that customer. Or the 800w was just straight stolen from Sprint's stock.

    So when a Treo 800w with a bad ESN is sold on Ebay, it's because the person selling it on Ebay did not fulfill their agreement. Once someone else gets the device, either they will have to pay whatever money Sprint is waiting for or the ESN remains locked out of Sprint's network.

    If I agree to engage in a contract for merchandise and I fail to uphold my end of the contract, I've stolen the property. If the 800w was legit and clear, Sprint would have no legal grounds to do something such as lock the ESN and keep it locked even after the device changed hands after an Ebay sale.

    A Service Agreement is a contract for service, not for merchandise. They're not going to steal back the discounts they already gave me when I purchased the phone.

    They don't lock the esn, they lock the account when it becomes inactive. This traps whatever ESN is on it that time, since they only allow changes to be made to active accounts.

    They do not consider the phone stolen, and in fact, they are not concerned with that phone at all. I would bet if you do an ESN change to a different handset, that the original (discounted phone) ESN would be free&clear, regardless of remaining service agreement.

    Last time I checked, no post-paid carrier allows you to sign up for new service without a service agreement. They all require at least a 1-year commitment, regardless of the type of phone you buy, or even if you supply your own phone. So why would I pay full-price for a phone if I still have to sign a 1 or 2 year service commitment? The only people that pay full-price for a phone are existing customers that want a different phone, and aren't eligble for new service discount.

    I'll agree I think some gray area was involved, but to jump to the conclusion that criminal activity is the only possible explanaton.... seems quite odd.

    One more thing, I just have to say, I think Sprint is still making money on a handset purchase when they sell a $499 MSRP phone for $200, and probably even at $100. They don't "subsidize", they just "make less profit", when they discount a phone.
    Last edited by beezlewaxin; 03/06/2009 at 10:54 AM.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by beezlewaxin View Post
    One more thing, I just have to say, I think Sprint is still making money on a handset purchase when they sell a $499 MSRP phone for $200, and probably even at $100. They don't "subsidize", they just "make less profit", when they discount a phone.
    No, they really don't make money off those highly discounted devices. Selling the 800w for $99, no they're not making money in that $99. They make their money in the contract, the $2399.76 over 2 years is where they make money. Which is why it's critical to have the customer maintain their contract obligations.

    I say, if you get it for $99 and don't fulfill your end, you stole it. If someone dislikes the terms, don't sign up.
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