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  1. #21  
    the 72xx's suck.. everyone knows it. someone should make an overclocker then they would be faster... oh wait.. no one can figure out how cause they suck!
    -tgwaste
  2. Me2
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Perhaps, but what Palm does to the WM is also reduce the footprint of the actual OS and the required RAM to have it run. All else being equal, Palm WM devices have more RAM (not sure on the Pro though).

    Less overhead = faster OS, which is why devices like the 700wx, 750 and 800w are as fast as they are despite the lower-end processor.

    The secret to having a good OS is less junk, not necessarily a faster cpu.

    That's why I only use "slipstreamed" version of Win XP on my laptop/desktop. People have ripped out useless and unnecessary parts of the OS which makes it much faster.
    Quote Originally Posted by cnick6 View Post
    Optimized code helps too.
    So this would be the same lean, mean, low footprint OS that leaves 65MB or less Storage and RAM available to the user, on a machine which starts out with 256MB + 128MB? Doesn't sound very stripped-down or optimised to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by cnick6 View Post
    BTW, this sounds like good news. The below is from cNet Australia's review of the Treo Pro:

    (For complete article see my original post)

    Performance

    Palm's stripped back approach to Windows Mobile pays dividends at the business end of using this phone. Without complex animated transitions to render, the Treo Pro runs like Usain Bolt over 100 metres, ie, very fast. While Windows Mobile phones, like the Touch Diamond, often test our patience with laggy operation, however, the Treo Pro is a dream to use: accessing the menus and executing programs is fast, and the Pro's 400MHz Qualcomm processor is more than capable of multitasking.
    Yea but you could say that about any WM device. Hardly a like-for-like comparision (but what else do you expect from CNet). I'd venture that the 528MHz Touch Diamond with all the eye-candy turned off would wipe the floor with the Treo. And as for multitasking, that low start-up RAM suggests things will soon run out of steam once you have a few heavyweight apps open and start the inevitable memory leaks.

    Considering the competition, the impression I'm getting so far is that Treo Pro is decidedly over-priced and under-spec'd.

    Even the styling lets it down. Where is the sense in launching a premium-priced flagship device that takes all its design cues from the entry level cheap-as-chips, jello-keyed, "my first smartphone" Centro (cute as it is)?

    It hardly looks like something you'll be proud to hold for your $550 - and from a design perspective, a whole world apart from the polished steel "suited and booted" chic of Nokia's (way cheaper) E71, for example.

    Unless it's remarkedly different in the flesh, I just can't imagine grinning and thinking to myself "that's money well spent" everytime I proudly pull the Pro out of my pocket, especially when there are already signs of typical Palm costcutting at work which ultimately cause these things to lose their shine (e.g. average CPU, low memory, cheap construction, no softkeys or scroll wheel, non-standard USB etc.)
    Last edited by Me2; 09/09/2008 at 05:57 AM.
  3. #23  
    Processor speed should not make any difference. That is something that Intel and Microsoft imprinted on our collective consciousness. It's just like the "slim" or "slider" thing.

    The biggest victim of higher speed is battery life, which is quiet important in mobile devices. What users should demand is more efficient software that does not use-up cycles for useless things... like displaying a 24bit 1xillion pixel bitmap on the 2" screen... or playing CD quality music for a ring-tone. I believe more hardware resources make for lazy (software) developers...

    Unfortunately, Palm sticking with the same old processor for several generations of Treo's is seen as something wrong, while the opposite is true.
    Game over!
  4. Me2
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHex View Post
    Processor speed should not make any difference. That is something that Intel and Microsoft imprinted on our collective consciousness. It's just like the "slim" or "slider" thing.

    The biggest victim of higher speed is battery life, which is quiet important in mobile devices. What users should demand is more efficient software that does not use-up cycles for useless things... like displaying a 24bit 1xillion pixel bitmap on the 2" screen... or playing CD quality music for a ring-tone. I believe more hardware resources make for lazy (software) developers...
    .
    In an ideal world, maybe. But in the real world, processor speed (and type) DOES make difference. And the latest chipsets can provide this speed without impacting on battery life.


    If Palm had a tight control on the OS, like they did in the old days, and Apple do now, they might have been able to have a bigger say in how things are programmed.

    In reality, what users should demand, and do demand, are entirely different things. The vendor who refuses to cater for any of that demand is the one who has no sales. That's why Palm had to jump into bed with MS out of desperation after resting on their laurels for far too long with a 10 year old non multi-tasking OS.

    And offering WM means people will expect it to run WM software as well as any other competitor's WM phone.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHex View Post
    Unfortunately, Palm sticking with the same old processor for several generations of Treo's is seen as something wrong, while the opposite is true.
    I can't see anybody here criticising Palm for sticking with the same old processor. They've chosen a new one for the Pro - but instead of the best available, they've opted for an outdated (but cheap) average performer from HTC's parts bin. Hence this thread. That said, in practice the actual unit might fly, and we're all worrying about nothing, although PIC's review doesn't seem to think so:-

    Performance
    With a 400MHz clock speed you would expect a speedier device, however on an overall basis the Treo Pro felt slower than its recent counterpart the Treo 800w with its 333 MHz chip. Overall performance is acceptable, however certain functions occasionally cause the device to slow down at times, usually when browsing the web. Windows Mobile can be somewhat demanding and it seems the device has a tendency to get caught up at times with some more intensive tasks. I also had trouble with the responsiveness of the onscreen soft-key to answer phone calls, but using the green "orb button" instead alleviated that. Its certainly not pokey in daily use, but in general it just doesn't feel as finely tuned as the 800w.

    http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9...eo-pro-review/
    Last edited by Me2; 09/09/2008 at 07:48 AM.
  5. #25  
    I'll bite: what is the best available processor for a WM device.

    If someone says "the fastest!"...they will receive daily beatings for 2 weeks.

    I mean part number and specific info on the chipset and why it's better, not just raw speed.

    BTW, I do agree the Treo Pro is more of an outsourced HTC phone, hence some of it's speed and tweak deficiencies. But it's still a good performer overall.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 09/09/2008 at 09:52 AM.

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  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I'll bite: what is the best available processor for a WM device.

    If someone says "the fastest!"...they will receive daily beatings for 2 weeks.

    I mean part number and specific info on the chipset and why it's better, not just raw speed.

    BTW, I do agree the Treo Pro is more of an outsourced HTC phone, hence some of it's speed and tweak deficiencies. But it's still a good performer overall.

    but its a processor, so that means raw speed should be the primary measuring tool to determine which is better. no?
    -tgwaste
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by tgwaste View Post
    but its a processor, so that means raw speed should be the primary measuring tool to determine which is better. no?
    The very concept appears wrong... (I guess) there must be several other (more meaningful) factors to evaluate processors... Some other things that I can think of are cost, processor architecture, instruction set, programming environment/ tools, efficiency and power consumption/ dissipation. Maybe some "hardware" person can enlighten us on this.
  8. #28  
    Greenhex has the right idea...

    Qualcomm does *not* simply increase processor speed in their new chipsets.

    Things like is it a dual processor (like the Mogul) matter.

    For instance, a dual processor (one for the radio, the other the OS) sounds really good but in execution so far it is not.

    Or DirectDraw drivers. Treo 800w has 'em and it makes a huge difference. Many HTC devices, however, do not.

    Cache allocation, multiple processors, size of the die (90nm, 62nm) all have an impact.

    Just look through Qualcomm's dat sheets (or I'll post one later) to see all the tech involved in a mobile chipset. Processor speed is but one of many pieces that make a differnce.

    These devices will be exactly like desktops: eventually you'll have a dedicated processor and seperate memory for graphics, sound, main processor, etc.

    Nvidia is doing just that for WM7.
  9. #29  
    For desktop CPUs all that is nicely discussed.
    For mobile devices it somehow wasn't (or it seems to me so) too interesting so far.
    Why is my TX at least equal to my T5? Why couldn't my Touch Dual run the videos compiled for my T680 stutter free (ok, may be also os dependent...)?
    The hardware optimisation of the OS and it's power saveing features will become increasingly important as demand for 'feelable power' (sorry my englich sucks a little) increases.
    Taking simply a .pdf document, not long ago it was great just to be able to view it on a mobile device. Now flipping thru the pages can't be fast enough...
    So, what do you do? Throw in a fast CPU, and a larger battery, both is great on the data sheet... one could ask if optimisation is worth the effort, in terms of revenue...?! People are bying by hardware specs and most reviewers don't even get 'close' enough to the devices to really point out any differences...


    (I hopefully will have my Pro soon, and am curious if I have to recode all my videos)
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